Masking Chloramine Effects

[Echoloc8]

Okay, I think the Irish Red I have that's got off flavors isn't infected, but actually full of polyphenols or what have you from the chloramined tap water I used for a post-pitch DME addition.

I know, I had a Moment of Transcendent Stupid. I even had a gallon of store-bought spring water just sitting there that I could have used. :smack:

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for masking that off flavor? I know now it's probably not going away, and am considering (again) a massive dry-hop to see if I can ameliorate the problem.

I'm going to experiment with some hop teas and a few pints this weekend, but does this otherwise sound like a decent option?

-Rich

 

[TyTanium]

Hit it with gelatin...it may drop some of the polyphenols.

Get the beer as cold as possible
1/2 tsp into warm tap water...stir...let "bloom" for 30 mins.
Microwave in 15s intervals until ~170F
Add to cold beer
Leave it for a few days

You can use grocery store Knox (or store brand) unflavored gelatin

 

[weirdboy]

Chlorophenols.

It's sort of a plastic/band-aid flavor? How strong is it? It certainly won't go away on its own.


If it's not a really strong band-aid flavor, you might try a fining agent like polyclar, which ought to help remove polyphenols.
For proper use see this page:

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2022.0


As TyTanium suggests, gelatin could work, too. I have never tried either one for the purposes of removing off flavors, but in theory they could help the situation.

 

[Denny]

If it's truly chlorophenols, I've never seen anything that will remove or mask them.

 

[Yooper]

If it's truly chlorophenols, I've never seen anything that will remove or mask them.

Me neither.

But it's possible that if it's not chlorophenols and instead polyphenols that finings might help, as would a lengthy cold conditioning.

 

[Echoloc8]

Finings! Wow, didn't know that could help.

I've got it in a kegerator atm, so getting/keeping it cold is not a problem. I can throw in some bloomed gelatin tonight with no trouble.

-Rich

 

[Echoloc8]

Me neither.

But it's possible that if it's not chlorophenols and instead polyphenols that finings might help, as would a lengthy cold conditioning.

This beer has been cold in the keg for almost a month, and I think it has improved a bit (though not nearly enough). Would that argue for polyphenols?

-Rich

 

[TyTanium]

Finings! Wow, didn't know that could help.

I've got it in a kegerator atm, so getting/keeping it cold is not a problem. I can throw in some bloomed gelatin tonight with no trouble.

-Rich

Might help. Denny & Yoop are right to point out they don't do much for chlorophenols. But worth a shot...gel certainly won't hurt anything.

 

[Yooper]

This beer has been cold in the keg for almost a month, and I think it has improved a bit (though not nearly enough). Would that argue for polyphenols?

-Rich

It would depend on the cause. Polyphenols are an entirely different cause than chlorine, although they are both "phenolic". Phenols also come from yeast (notably Belgian yeast- that "clove" flavor).

Polyphenols are from tannins, from mashing and sparging improperly. Chlorophenols come from chlorinated water.

 

[weirdboy]

My personal opinion isn't that they cannot be removed, but that the detection threshold at which a person can perceive chlorophenols is incredibly small--like 3 parts per billion--so it is much harder to remove enough to get the concentration below a person's taste threshold. Regular old polyphenols from tannins, etc. require orders of magnitude higher concentrations to reliably detect.


Here is an interesting paper I found on ProBrewer where they tried to experimentally determine the taste thresholds for various phenols typically found in beer:

http://www.probrewer.com/resources/library/43-phenolic.pdf

 

[Echoloc8]

Yeah, I wasn't really expecting removal (though I'm excited to try the gelatin, just in case it makes a difference). And it sounds as though throwing hops on top may just make a problem beer into a hoppy problem beer.

It's been a long time since I made a beer with real off-flavor problems. I guess I should take that as a blessing.

I know the Revvy Dictum is never to dump a beer, but this one is occupying a keg, and soon to be In The Way. I could bottle it, but I'm not inclined to. Just hoping to get some use out of it, because like the man said, it's tough to drink a beer where I can taste the fail.

-Rich

 

[TyTanium]

Some flaws fade with age; chlorophenols aren't one of them.

FWIW, I've had good success cooking with phenolic beer. I don't know if it boils out or what, but it has never tasted "off" in food

 

[Echoloc8]

Wanted to post an update. It's been almost a week since I added the gelatin, and at first I wasn't sure there was any effect other than extreme clarity.

Then about Tuesday night, I poured about a quarter-pint into my standard warm-spigot "foam cup" and then a standard pint into a glass. The pint was great! When it was mostly gone, I poured in that first foam-cup portion, and it was cloudy and nasty. Didn't finish that bit, obviously.

Every pint afterward has been markedly improved. Something gross was precipitated out, and was mainly in that foam-cup portion. Might have been yeast (this was a Notty batch, which is usually wonderful to me), might have been some wacky protein or polyphenol cocktail, but I don't care.

I'm enjoying a keg now that I was very close to dumping. Thanks so much!

-Rich

 

[homebrewdad]

That is great news.

 

[Echoloc8]

That is great news.

Yup, I'm a happy brewer.

-Rich

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

Yup, I'm a happy brewer.

-Rich

You lucked out. I had to dump a kolsch that had gotten worse with age. Tasted like cloraseptic when I read the eulogy on my lawn.

 

[Echoloc8]

You lucked out. I had to dump a kolsch that had gotten worse with age. Tasted like cloraseptic when I read the eulogy on my lawn.

Oh, I've had some brews go down the drain; thankfully none in quite a while. The last one was in 2010 or so, a bacon smoked porter with Real Bacon(TM) right off the frying pan. I was actually worried I was going to lose the corny keg and not just the beer in it that time... Thank Ninkasi for Oxiclean.

Before that I had two batches fail in 2004 or so to (very) poor sanitation. Nothing beats emptying two cases of bottles, bottle after bottle, and pouring them each down the drain after a sniff. I almost wanted to have mournful bagpipes playing "Amazing Grace" or something.

I learned to pay better attention to sanitation after that.

-Rich