Mash Out Science

[theQ]

Hello,

I am brewing for 7 years. 67 batches or something like that. Who counts, we only drink it after all .

On my setup I always batch sparge and had used 2 approaches in the past
a. warm the water at 10F above the target sparge water, empty the MT, add the strike water, rinse the grains for 10 mins
b. raise the mash in temp using a HERMS to the exact target temp, empty the mash, add the sparge water, rinse the grains for 10 mins

After getting a beer that was too sweet and more body than expected, I decided to no longer do (b.) the mash in was 152F, should have been pretty crisp but it was not, it was sweet and thicker.

However, all this lead me to think more about mashouts. Varius recipes ask for different times and different times.

What is the secret sauce here ?Clearly going longer is not good - unfermentable sugars are extracted and tanins get extracted.

Is the a good source to read about temps, duration and procedure. Note I do stir the grain bed in this process.

Thoughts ?

 

[Dgallo]

So the mash out idea is that you are mashing at a lower temp to get as much fermentable or simple sugars extracted that you can. People with them mash out, usual 160-162*f to activate alpha amylase to extract complex sugars that are not fermentable. As long as your ph is correct, you will not extract tannins. Mashing out helps elevate body, mouthfeel, and head retention, all while your beer has good fermentability because you originally mashed lower.

 

[theQ]

So the mash out idea is that you are mashing at a lower temp to get as much fermentable or simple sugars extracted that you can. People with them mash out, usual 160-162*f to activate alpha amylase to extract complex sugars that are not fermentable. As long as your ph is correct, you will not extract tannins. Mashing out helps elevate body, mouthfeel, and head retention, all while your beer has good fermentability because you originally mashed lower.

No doubts but I am interested to see if this is documented by style or by wanted outcome.

 

[MMP126]

There is a difference in "mashing out" and "sparging". Mashing out is raising your mash to 168-170F, which helps reduce the viscosity of the mash, thus making the movement of your first runnings easier. I cannot find any additional information that suggest this affects the mouthfeel or body of the beer.

Sparging is the rinsing part, adding fresh water to the grain bed. I am not sure if sparging temperature affects the sugar composition of the wort, as most of the sugar conversion has already happened during the initial mash. Again, I have no info other than sparging at higher temps keep the mash viscosity low, so you can avoid a stuck sparge. Other than being over 170F can lead to tannin extraction if you do not control you sparge water pH.

Talking towards body and mouthfeel, 152 is on the mid/low end of the scale for alpha vs. beta amylase conversion, which should result in a medium light/medium bodied beer. Mashing temperature isn't the only proponent of that contributes to body and sweetness. Types of grain, yeast selection, and resulting beer FG can really affect these 2 attributes, if not even more than mash and sparge temperatures.

 

[MMP126]

For reference on body and sweetness levels per beer style, check out the BJCP or ABA style guidelines.

 

[VikeMan]

So the mash out idea is that you are mashing at a lower temp to get as much fermentable or simple sugars extracted that you can. People with them mash out, usual 160-162*f to activate alpha amylase to extract complex sugars that are not fermentable. As long as your ph is correct, you will not extract tannins. Mashing out helps elevate body, mouthfeel, and head retention, all while your beer has good fermentability because you originally mashed lower.

You're describing an alpha amylase rest. A mashout is usually higher (close to 170F), and the main purpose is to halt enzyme (particularly beta amalyase) activity, to "lock in" a wort's sugar/dextrin profile.