Mash again and add wort to wort?

[brewpood]

Here comes a crazy newbie question--but I'm asking in case it's, you know, crazy like a fox. (Doubtful.) I got terrible efficiency with my partial mash brew yesterday, which I didn't realize until I pitched the yeast and then remembered to take my hydrometer reading. It was supposed to be 1.058 but was 1.052. If memory serves, Beersmith said my efficiency was something like 40%.

Here's where the crazy idea comes in. As it happens, I froze the partial mash grains to use later in dog biscuits. Could I take the grains from the freezer and instead break them up some more with an iron pot or rolling pin, mash them again, boil, cool, take a hydrometer reading, and, if 1.058 or higher, open my bucket and add it to the fermenting wort? Or is it better just to accept what will be, in all likelihood, a lower ABV beer than I had hoped for?

Thanks!

 

[stpug]

Accept it and do it differently next time, and certainly don't try getting more from those spent grains (it's not going to happen with a lot of work and a lot of boiling). You can always keep a little DME on hand to bump gravities for future batches though.

6 points is nothing to worry about (off the top of my head maybe 0.5-0.7% ABV difference 5.4% instead of 6.0%); 15 points is another story.

 

[gcdowd]

1.052 when the target was 1.058 is really not that bad. I would just let it ride

edit: stpug beat me to it!

 

[BigFloyd]

1.052 when the target was 1.058 is really not that bad. I would just let it ride

This^^^^^^. Sometimes, if you try to do imaginative things after the fact to remedy a perceived problem, it creates brand new (and often worse) problems.

Been there, done that on a PM Maibock. I was all worried, but that beer turned out to be superb.

 

[brewpood]

Well, I thank you and the dog thanks you because she can now look forward to her first batch of spent-mash biscuits.

Follow-up, even though I gather I should leave well enough alone: how would one add DME to the fermenting wort? I do have some....

Thanks again!

 

[stpug]

Boil some up in a little water, cool, and add to fermenting beer. You'll want to make a strong concentrate.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Just remember that DME/LME are not 100% fermentable sugars, so you might get a smaller boost in the ABV than adding simple sugar. Downside of simple sugar is while it does increase the ABV, it dries the beer out and makes it slightly thinner on the palate.

 

[duboman]

1 lb of DME in a 5 gallon batch will add .009 points if you wanted to add it but as mentioned, 6 points is really not enough to lose sleep over IMO

 

[m_stodd]

1 lb of DME in a 5 gallon batch will add .009 points if you wanted to add it but as mentioned, 6 points is really not enough to lose sleep over IMO

Maybe for a 5000 gallon batch

 

[feinbera]

So, random question -- did you sparge at all? Or just drain the first runnings out of the grains and call it done?

Take this with a grain of salt, since the sample size is small, but in my five all-grain batches (for which I've been OCD about recording gravity readings for), my sparging has gotten an additional 50%-75% of the sugars in my first runnings. So, if you were to sparge the frozen grains (basically, just rinse them with hot water to get more of the already-mashed sugars out), you'd probably hit 60% or 70% efficiency, which is pretty darn good for your first shot.

That being said, I have no idea what freezing does to your grain... certainly it's gonna make it harder to get up to a good sparge temperature of 170°. At only six points off, your beer will be tasty and still reasonably to-style, so, read up and do it next time.

 

[duboman]

Maybe for a 5000 gallon batch

Huh?
Not sure I'm understanding your intent.....

1.052 vs 1.058 is like .8% with average attenuation, does that keep you up at night?

A beer at 1.052 finishing at 1.010 is 5.51%, the same beer at 1.058 is 6.3%

 

[m_stodd]

Huh?
Not sure I'm understanding your intent.....

1.052 vs 1.058 is like .8% with average attenuation, does that keep you up at night?

A beer at 1.052 finishing at 1.010 is 5.51%, the same beer at 1.058 is 6.3%

1lb of DME in a 5 gallon batch will add .009 points? So something would go from 1.055000 to 1.055009?

You probably meant 9 points, not .009 points
(assuming a 'point' is .001)

I could be wrong, but I think you were 1000x off, hope that doesn't keep you up at night

 

[duboman]

........9 points

 

[brewpood]

Yep, I sparged, but I guess not well enough, or maybe my temps were off when I did the partial mash. I didn't use a cooler, just a pot, but tried to monitor the temperature as best I could. Next time!

I decided to go ahead and add some more wort last night. I boiled about a pound of DME with some additional grains of paradise that I had short-changed the first time. I also decided, gulp, to try the olive oil trick discussed here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/using-olive-oil-instead-oxygen-47872/
I accidentally put about two drops in instead of one. I dreamed I had explosive fermentation, but woke to not much activity. We'll see if the yeast wakes up. Cheers!

 

[brewpood]

P.S. Should I pitch more yeast? Thanks!

 

[stpug]

You brewed and pitched yeast 3 days ago, right? Your yeast should still be rocking and rolling - no need for more yeast. In fact, yeast will usually come out of slumber when new sugar is added after they've settled down; maybe a little stir with a sanitized racking cane is okay but shouldn't be necessary.

I don't think the olive oil was needed in this case. The idea of olive oil is a replacement for oxygen to provide the building blocks the yeast need to reproduce and be healthy. In your case, you were adding a small amount of sugar in the grand scheme of things that even stressed yeast could have likely consumed. If you bulked up your gravity significantly then maybe the oil could be useful - maybe. The oil is generally administered directly to the yeast slurry for a period of time prior to pitching into your wort. Regardless, it shouldn't hurt either.

I look forward to hearing how this all turns out.

 

[brewpood]

Cool--thanks! I will just wait and take a gravity reading this weekend to see where things are. I hope the yeast are busier than they seem to be--that they are quietly working away.

 

[progmac]

brewpond -- maybe you described your process and i missed it

i'm going to go out on a limb and say you had all your grains in a muslin bag, the large size common at any LHBS. these tend to be too small and cause dry spots and dough balls. this all leads to crap efficiency, in the 50% range like you experienced.

go to Lowe's today and buy two paint strainer bags for $6. next time you are doing a partial mash, use this...it has elastic that goes over the opening of the pot and with a couple of stirs during the mash you will get huge efficiency -- 70%+ is typical and a sparge is just gravy and for the most part not necessary.

good luck

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Stop foolin' with your beer. Once it's in the fermenter, leave it alone. You'll just confuse the yeast. If you must tinker, start working on your next recepie, and incorporate your "shoulda dones" into your process next time. If you get a peceved low gravity next batch, put the DME into the boil to raise gravity.

 

[brewpood]

I promise, no more foolin' with it. I took a gravity reading last night, and it had reached the target of 1.014. Tasted great, too, much better than before I added the extra DME. I'll leave it for another couple of days, take another couple of readings, and then transfer to secondary. I hope the olive oil drop I added doesn't mean that it will have no head retention. Otherwise, this is a very promising batch. Thanks for your help and advice!