Margarita Gose

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Really wish I would've seen this when I brewed my margarita inspired beer about two months ago. Mine is a sour but of the funky kind - a simple beer of pilsen DME (OG 1.042) and a 1/2 oz of Saaz hops for 5 gal. Using a 3rd gen funky yeast cake of Brett and Lacto (originally in White Labs Belgian Sour Mix 1).

It is slightly margarita/cocktail inspired, and will become a honey-lime tequila barrel sour. I've done incremental feedings of honey to primary at 1 week, 2 weeks, and 1.5 months. At two weeks, I added a spiral of French oak (medium toast) that soaked in Espolon blanco tequila for 3 weeks. I however did not add the wood-infused spirit to the beer, only added the spiral. My plan being that I will add tequila later to flavor, possibly in secondary or bottling.

Morrey, you're right in that homemade wood-infused tequila is delicious. I mix the French oaked portion with fresh tequila and it's so much more complex than your standard reposado or anejo. And your idea of infusing the tequila with lime zest and then adding is a pretty good one. Might try it out.

I've also done lime Goses in the past, but didn't put nearly the amount of salt you did. I find most commercial goses to be overly salty, so I only added 7g per 5 gal which gives it a noticeable slight briny saltiness. To me an oz just seems like far too much. If I were try this I'd go for maybe 10-14g of salt, which I add at bottling or secondary, to taste. It's a much easier way to avoid the 'drinking seawater' taste.

A note on adding lime zest. I've exbeerimented with adding fresh lime zest at different points in the brewing process. Primary is out of the question, too many aromas/flavors are blown off. Secondary works well if adding 2-3 limes of zest for 2 weeks or so. As for bottling, you could go with Morrey's method of the tincture or alternatively, add fresh straight to the bottle (or keg). Not sure about kegging, but a very small pinch of fresh lime to each bottle really seems to boost the lime flavor, even preserving the freshness for months. I remember tasting my bottle-zested lime Berliner Weiss at months old and it still had great flavor, far more than those just with it added in secondary. These bottles also benefitted from an increased head retention and stability, along with better carbonation. Perhaps the zest oils actually aid with this?
 
True to your post, my brew buddy KeyWest Brewing and I spent a long time going back and forth experimenting with various ways to infuse lime in a Gose. He had previously shared with me an awesome way to do a watermelon concentrate infusion so he knows his stuff. We tried it all including sachets of lime crystals, maybe called True Lime? Anyway, seems the alcohol in the tequila draws out the oils in the zest that we are finding most appealing. Once we headed the tincture route we are constantly refining our method as I posted this week.

I am totally impressed with the "inexpensive" tequila that I made taste like $100 tequila. The medium toast American oak spiral was a great discovery, so next I think I'll look for a French oak spiral as you mentioned and see how that works. Using that oaked tequila for the tincture gives a very subtle nuisance to the Gose reminiscent of a barrel aged sour.

I agree with your salt quantity adjustment. I modeled my base Gose after a popular commercial Gose from Westbrook in Charleston, SC. After scaling down I came up with .75 oz or 21 grams of sea salt. Knowing this was going to be a "margarita Gose", my mind was thinking in terms of a salt rimmed glass with a lime slice. So I bumped the salt to a full ounce, and you can see some folks would add even more, some would add less. However, we are in full control making our hobby unique to our individual tastes which is a good thing!

Enjoy!!
 
I have this souring as we speak with OYL-605. This is my first sour attempt, but all seems okay so far. Mashed last night and quickly realized the Ph test strips are totally useless. I ended up blindly lowering the Ph into the 4.5 range and pitched the culture, no starter. Would have made a starter if I had gotten the package sooner.

Keeping it at 86 in my Grainfather per the advice on Milk the Funk for this culture. I Amazon next day'ed a real Ph meter and was sitting at 3.7 earlier today and now at 3.5. Will be doing a last Ph measurement early AM tomorrow and going to boil after that. I followed the procedure on the Grainfather blog about kettle souring and did a mash, sparge and 10 min boil and cool before pitching the lacto.

So far this has been an interesting learning experience and if I end up with a decent sour I will be pumped. I bought a sixer of Avery El Gose for the weekend which is somewhat similar to this recipe. At this point I am hoping that when I get up early to boil that the Ph isn't too low. I thought about taking it to a boil now at 3.5 but have read that it might be too soon. I want to have something fairly tart to counter all the salt and lime I am going to add.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for the recipe!
 
I'm going to be making this in the next month or two. Just purchased Swanson Plantarum capsules, used Wyeast Lacto last time. Last summer I did a melon Gose with 1 oz of sea salt and that was perfect. I might hit this recipe with 1.25 oz, I like it salty. Last time I also hit a pH of 3.7 but this time I will go for 3.3-3.4. I used the concentrate method for the melon by making my own concentrate from fresh watermelon and it came out fantastic. I then added a small amount of hibiscus tea for the melon color. Can't wait to try this Gose this time....Here's my melon Gose in different lighting and how I made the concentrate.




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I am hoping that when I get up early to boil that the Ph isn't too low. I thought about taking it to a boil now at 3.5 but have read that it might be too soon. I want to have something fairly tart to counter all the salt and lime I am going to add.

Fingers crossed! Thanks for the recipe!

I think you'll be glad you waited since 3.5 is likely to leave you wishing it was a bit more sour. 605 is pretty predictable that when it gets down to 3.2 or so it kinda stalls out and levels off around there. Lance at Omega Labs said he sometimes sees 3.19, and I actually saw 3.16 on my last batch. I really like that level, however 3.2 is really about right.

Did you take a final ph reading before your boil?
 
I'm going to be making this in the next month or two. Just purchased Swanson Plantarum capsules, used Wyeast Lacto last time. Last summer I did a melon Gose with 1 oz of sea salt and that was perfect. I might hit this recipe with 1.25 oz, I like it salty. Last time I also hit a pH of 3.7 but this time I will go for 3.3-3.4. I used the concentrate method for the melon by making my own concentrate from fresh watermelon and it came out fantastic. I then added a small amount of hibiscus tea for the melon color. Can't wait to try this Gose this time....Here's my melon Gose in different lighting and how I made the concentrate.

I have a 1/2 G jug of watermelon juice in my freezer just waiting for me to concentrate it down. I end up with 16oz of concentrate after I let drip into a 32 oz jar, refreeze, and do the same drip process again down to 16 oz.

I also like the hibiscus dry hop. The color is WOW plus it adds a tiny bit of "rose hip" taste that accentuates the style. Really, this is a wonderful summer refresher. We love our Gose beers a bit salty when adding melon concentrate or lime tinctures.
 
I think you'll be glad you waited since 3.5 is likely to leave you wishing it was a bit more sour. 605 is pretty predictable that when it gets down to 3.2 or so it kinda stalls out and levels off around there. Lance at Omega Labs said he sometimes sees 3.19, and I actually saw 3.16 on my last batch. I really like that level, however 3.2 is really about right.

Did you take a final ph reading before your boil?

Yep, it was down to 3.3 so I went ahead with it. Wort had a nice clean sour to it. In the fermenter now US-05 @ 66F.

:mug:
 
Thoughts on a lime concentrate using the freeze/drain/repeat method using straight up fresh pressed lime juice? Anyone tried that? Was planning on adding about a pint of juice to secondary, to help boost the acidity and lime flavor. Only downside is the watering down, but could you still achieve a similar result if this was turned into a concentrate? Would it preserve the lime flavor and acidity? I'd be worried of losing the vital citric acid with all the water loss in thawing. Toying with the idea of trying this alongside the lime zest tincture.

I checked the gravity on my sour honey ale w/ tequila soaked French oak. Tasted killer! Nicely tart and mildly sweet with some great honey tones, mild oak. Added some lime zest, lime juice, and tequila to the sample glass and wow! Now I can't wait this is done and everything is added.
 
Thoughts on a lime concentrate using the freeze/drain/repeat method using straight up fresh pressed lime juice? Anyone tried that? Was planning on adding about a pint of juice to secondary, to help boost the acidity and lime flavor. Only downside is the watering down, but could you still achieve a similar result if this was turned into a concentrate? Would it preserve the lime flavor and acidity? I'd be worried of losing the vital citric acid with all the water loss in thawing. Toying with the idea of trying this alongside the lime zest tincture.

I checked the gravity on my sour honey ale w/ tequila soaked French oak. Tasted killer! Nicely tart and mildly sweet with some great honey tones, mild oak. Added some lime zest, lime juice, and tequila to the sample glass and wow! Now I can't wait this is done and everything is added.

My cohort in crime (KeyWest) and I actually tried working on concentrating lime juice down to use for flavoring. We found the oils in the zest (tincture) was what we were looking for and the concentrated juice seemed lacking in depth. Certainly not meaning to discourage your efforts to exbeeriment, and if you approach* it like we did, its fun to drink you way into something for your specific tastes.

*We made generic/standard Gose beer as a base and tried various infusions, tinctures, concentrates, etc by adding into a pint of base beer. Kept us from making whole kegs that may not have been what we hoped for.
 
Thanks for the advice! Since this is more of a traditional mixed fermentation sour, I got a couple more months til this will be ready to add the lime, tequila and such. Which means there's a lot of time to plan out how to perfect this brew. :mug

Guess I'll steer clear of the lime concentrate then. Seems like it'd just be easier to add the straight up juice and zest.

This is why I love this recipe... and margaritas! You can really try any approach to them. Go simple and easy or you can add virtually any fruit/flavor and it's still tasty. Not to sidetrack the topic, but this would be a great recipe to add fruit to, or in my instance honey. Could easily see this with jalapeños, strawberries, peaches, etc.

A brewery by me actually released a peach margarita sour. Heard it was pretty tasty!
 
Kicked my keg last week after bottling the remaining gose in the keg. I finally got around to cleaning the keg last night and noticed something interesting. Some brown, goopy looking trub in the bottom. Not a problem, oxy-clean is destroying it as we speak. I was just curious, haven't seen a keg trub like this before. I'm wondering if it's the tincture settling out and discoloring the yeast trub? I snapped a pic...

Gose Keg Trub.JPG
 
Never noted sediment like that (color) in my kegs of Margarita Gose. I have a new keg conditioning now, so I'll pay special attention to the trub when the keg kicks.
 
Have you tried this using WY3711? Might be interesting to see how it is with lower FG, the dryness would create more perceived acidity.
 
Have you tried this using WY3711? Might be interesting to see how it is with lower FG, the dryness would create more perceived acidity.

Damn. Had not thought about that. I've got 3711 in the yeast rack in the fridge. I think I need to try this!

However...I just thought about this...how does 3711 do in lower ph, i.e., acidic, environments? I know one of the reasons Morrey uses 05 is its tolerance for the lower ph. Anyone have experience using 3711 in more acidic environments?
 
I think it would be interesting to ferment this with US-05 and then on day 3-5 of fermentation add 3711 to dry it out. I wouldn't use it for the entire fermentation. I've heard of people brewing IPA's this way and if you add the 3711 on day 3-4 you're not going to get Belgian character from the yeast but it will still dry it out.
 
I'm subscribed to the 3711 thread over in the yeast/fermentation sub-forum. I presented the same questions in there. @sweetcell brought up some good points that there is research to suggest that saison strains are mutated wine strains. Further, as we know, wine ph is lower than typical ales. So I think this could work! I will be trying this next month for sure.
 
Let us know how it turns out! Good point about the Belgian character, I am sure the 3711 thread has some ideas how to keep esters and phenols at bay but if it is too much than I would say US-05 first then finish with 3711. But I am curious how it would taste with much lower FG... only one way to find!
 
For what is worth regarding yeast strains and their tolerances to low ph levels, I have successfully used WLP001, WLP029 and now US-05 with predictable (successful) results. In this regard, at least the strains I listed have finished right on down to their attenuating limits while starting at 3.2 ph.

I was skeptical of pitching into this low ph environment for some time, but never have encountered a yeast problem. I think 3711 would be just fine in the 3.2 range. From there I would not know about the flavor profile it would offer, but those who don't try, don't learn.

If anyone uses 3711 for a test, please post results so we can all give it a try!
 
Good question. L Plantarum is a lacto strain that is very easy to work with at typical household temps instead of the strains needing incubation over 100F. It is aggressive and very effective as a kettle souring agent.

I have been using Omega Lab's Lacto OYL-605 blend which contains L Plantarum. The upside is that it has never let me down, downside it is kinda spendy when my LHBS charges $11 a pop.

SO, I bought some L Plantarum caps from Swanson Vitamins but had not tried souring with them yet. You need to make a non-aerated lacto starter, and folks suggest 3-5 caps in a liter of wort starter for a 5G batch.

I had one pouch of OYL-605 left, but the date had expired a month ago. To be on the safe side, I added 3 caps of L Plantarum from Swanson for insurance. It worked well, so my next batch is going to be the caps only. I can't say enough good things about Omega. The only factor for me is cost control.

Brewing your recipe this week, thanks for sharing this!

Did you monitor pH of your starters with OYL-605? After 24 hour at room temp (~70F) my starter was down to pH 4.0 and had that noticeable lactic aroma. I'm going to give it until tomorrow (and check pH again) since I'm not brewing until then.

Also, have you ever tried to cold crash your lacto starters? I've seen mixed commentary with most suggesting against it. If I dump the whole starter its less than 5% of the total wort, so probably not an issue. Just wondering...
 
Brewing your recipe this week, thanks for sharing this!

Did you monitor pH of your starters with OYL-605? After 24 hour at room temp (~70F) my starter was down to pH 4.0 and had that noticeable lactic aroma. I'm going to give it until tomorrow (and check pH again) since I'm not brewing until then.

Also, have you ever tried to cold crash your lacto starters? I've seen mixed commentary with most suggesting against it. If I dump the whole starter its less than 5% of the total wort, so probably not an issue. Just wondering...

Thanks for the feedback!

I actually have never monitored my starters for Ph but that is an interesting idea. Conversely I have looked for that milky/cloudy layer near the bottom, and the pleasantly sweet/soured aroma like an Arnold Palmer iced tea/lemonade.

I'd almost be hesitant to cold crash since I think you'd be throwing tons of live culture down the drain if you decant. I don't think this is "spent" starter as we think of in a traditional yeast starter. While it is certainly an idea, do the benefits outweigh the risks or losses? But please do post your thoughts and notes as we can all learn from trial and error.

I am ready to tap my next Margarita Gose as soon as a slot comes open! Love this stuff!!

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I agree with your thoughts on the starter Morrey, in the absence of centrifugation, I bet there are a ton of bacteria that haven't settled during the course of a routine cold crash.

My OYL-605 starter was down to pH 3.60 this morning (42 hr post pitch), I will be using it tonight, can't wait! I have saved some of the culture (stored at -80C with 20% glycerol) to see how well I can make new starters in the future. Would be nice to avoid the $10+ hit each time I want to kettle sour...
 
I agree with your thoughts on the starter Morrey, in the absence of centrifugation, I bet there are a ton of bacteria that haven't settled during the course of a routine cold crash.

My OYL-605 starter was down to pH 3.60 this morning (42 hr post pitch), I will be using it tonight, can't wait! I have saved some of the culture (stored at -80C with 20% glycerol) to see how well I can make new starters in the future. Would be nice to avoid the $10+ hit each time I want to kettle sour...

Yeah, that $11 a pop for OYL-605 is a rub for sure. Flip side is that 605 has been so predictable and I've personally never had a failure with it.....knock on wood.

I usually take a gravity reading before I begin the kettle souring process, then another reading after I have hit my ph goals. Not that it has much of an impact either way, but I usually see "clean" lacto drop the gravity by a couple of points during souring. Typical numbers are 1.040 to start the sour and 1.038 after 48 hours of souring prior to my boil phase.

I started checking this due to an issue I had with another "dirty" lacto (not Omega) where I noted the gravity dropping during the sour phase. Darn this thing had dropped down to 1.020 (from 1.040) in two days and was fermenting out. Ooopps says the lab....we know we sold some lacto that had been contaminated with yeast. At that point I switched to Omega and never again has that happened.

Please keep us posted!
 
Yeah, that $11 a pop for OYL-605 is a rub for sure. Flip side is that 605 has been so predictable and I've personally never had a failure with it.....knock on wood.

I usually take a gravity reading before I begin the kettle souring process, then another reading after I have hit my ph goals. Not that it has much of an impact either way, but I usually see "clean" lacto drop the gravity by a couple of points during souring. Typical numbers are 1.040 to start the sour and 1.038 after 48 hours of souring prior to my boil phase.

I started checking this due to an issue I had with another "dirty" lacto (not Omega) where I noted the gravity dropping during the sour phase. Darn this thing had dropped down to 1.020 (from 1.040) in two days and was fermenting out. Opps says the lab....we know we sold some lacto that had been contaminated with yeast. At that point I switched to Omega and never again has that happened.

Please keep us posted!

Good to know! I will post updates as they come. If this goes as smoothly as you make it sound, I have a whole host of kettle soured recipes I'd like to try. Just have to get the first one under the belt, haha.
 
Anyone try saving a gallon of soured wort to inoculate subsequent batch?

FWIW, for my last kettle sour I made a 750mL starter with 5 Swanson caps, let it go for 4 or 5 days and pitched the whole thing. Took my pH down to 3.3-3.4* (wine strips) in 48 hours from the original pH (5.2-5.5*) as I had forgot to pre-acidify the wort to 4.5. Probably could have let it go another 24 hours to further drop it, but I decided to roll with it. As opposed to last time of just pitching directly into wort, I found this method to be more of a success.

* Currently accepting donations for a pH meter, PM for details :mug:
 
Wanted to show y'all how crazy clear this thing got after a month or two in the keg. Sorry for the shiite lighting in the pic. But you get the point. I could read a damn newspaper through this glass.

ClearGose.JPG
 
24 hours into the kettle sour and the pH is at 3.40, going to boil tomorrow, hoping for it to drop a bit more.

UPDATE: forgot to add the pic
2qukgts.jpg
 
24 hours into the kettle sour and the pH is at 3.40, going to boil tomorrow, hoping for it to drop a bit more.

What temp are you keeping your kettle? Dropping to 3.40 in 24 hours is just perfect. Mine drops quite slowly during the second 24 hour period compared to the first 24 hours. I expect you'll be 3.30 or possibly lower by morning. What would you consider your ideal ph goal?
 
What temp are you keeping your kettle? Dropping to 3.40 in 24 hours is just perfect. Mine drops quite slowly during the second 24 hour period compared to the first 24 hours. I expect you'll be 3.30 or possibly lower by morning. What would you consider your ideal ph goal?

I have a fermwrap around a Better Bottle, set at 80 F. The wort is pretty hazy at this point (will upload a pic tomorrow), I'm assuming from bacterial growth. There is much less lactic aroma though when compared to the starter.

From what I've read, the large majority of souring occurs in the first 24 hr with maybe 0.2-0.3 drop in the second 24 hr. I'd say I'm ideally looking for a pH of 3.2, so yeah hopefully right on target!
 
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