BrewnWKopperKat
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I would like this discussion to be about actual how to and methods of creating a really flavorful clear IPA.
Similar discussion, new as of yesterday, over in AHA fourms: Clarity
I would like this discussion to be about actual how to and methods of creating a really flavorful clear IPA.
This would have been considered *quite* hazy back in the day.I've only ever used clarifiers on kolsches and light pilsner lagers. Neither of which are known for big-to-massive hop character, but folks appreciate an extra level of brightness in those styles. I blame the macros for that
I haven't felt the need to use it on anything else (esbs, porters, stouts, wheat beers, fruited beers, pales/ipas/dipas/neipas) because who cares?
And I have a belief it's a hop character stripper, so there's no motivation.
Some of my brews clear eventually on their own. This is from the first keg of my latest wcipa brew that took a shortcut to the keezer with a one-day-carb (rock'n'roll method) two weeks ago. It's already markedly clearer and by the time this keg kicks its twin will likely be quite bright. And that's ok, I'm not one to fight physics
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Cheers!
I’ve been reading Janish New IPA book and you are correct you cannot get the same hop flavour in a clear beer vs hazy. The higher viscosity of the hazy makes the aromatics of the hops more difficult to volatize in fermentation. At least that is my interpretationMy mind on this topic has probably changes some since I first posted over on the "other thread" on this topic (which I stopped following a long time ago). I was probably in the camp that "NEIPA and American IPA are completely different styles." I focused on brewing a nice West Coast IPA that I enjoyed because they were so hard to find on tap. My "house" recipe started out as a clone of Racer 5, which some might call "classic" but I find light in body and not crazy bitter (the label does say 75 IBUs). My recipe used a lot of C hops!!
After a few iterations, I played around some with the hops. What if I reduced the bitterness? Added more hops? Move my late boil hops to flameout? Swapped out some hops for some newer "fruity/tropical" varieties? I could start to see where the two styles might not actually be as different as I once thought.
My last iteration, that was pretty darn nice, was the following:
It looks like I used my standard West Coast IPA water profile of Sulfate: 201, Chloride 77. That is something that I could play with more.
- 12 lbs (85.7%) Pale Malt
- 1 lb 4 oz (8.9%) White Wheat Malt
- 12 oz (5.4%) Carmel 20
- 0.8 oz Warrior (28.5 IBU) Boil
60 min(Edit: Just a 30 min boil)- 2 oz Mosaic (5.7 IBU) Flameout w/ 5 min steep
- 1.5 oz Azacca (5.4 IBU) Flameout w/ 5 min steep
- 1.5 oz El Dorado (6.8 IBU) Flameout w/ 5 min steep
- 2 oz Mosaic Dry Hop 3 days
- 1.5 oz Azacca Dry Hop 3 days
- 1.5 oz El Dorado Dry Hop 3 days
- WLP001 California
I usually take a lot of pics of my beers, but I cannot see one of this batch other than a gravity reading on brew day. I recall it taking a little bit to drop clear and was never like a Bud, but was "homebrew clear."
The things that I have found to give a more permanent haze in NEIPA style beers are 1) appropriate yeast, 2) large whirlpool hop additions 3) large percentages of Wheat and Oats. It would kinda make sense to me that I should avoid some or all of these things if I want a beer to drop clear.
I do feel that in a well done NEIPA, there is some synergy of factors that I don't fully understand (proteins, hop compounds/oils, other stuff?) that result in the haze. I am not convinced you can get the same level of hop flavors in a clear beer, but maybe my opinion will change in the future.
I seem to recall Craft Beer and Brewing having a recent article on East-Meets-West-Style IPAs, but I could not find it (and it might be subscriber only). I was out in LA about a year and a half ago, and several breweries out there seemed to have beers on tap that I would fit into this category.
Can we minimize polyphenols and protein and still get big hop flavor?
I'm bottling this 4 gallon batch of DIPA today. I used both wirlflock hot side fining (1/4 tab for 4.25 gallons) and gelatin after cold crashing. Soft crashed to 50F on day 11 of fermentation to drop the yeast. Raised back up to 60F on day 13 and dry hopped at a rate of .9 oz/gallon. After 3 days dry hop at 60 degrees I cold crashed to 35 for 4 days. It took overnight to get to 35 degrees in my modified dorm fridge. Once it hit 35 I added gelatin. I put the fermenter on the kitchen counter a 70 degrees yesterday and it cleared quite a bit overnight as it warmed up. Not sure what is up with that. Chill Haze?
4 gallons into fermenter:
8 lb - pale 2 row, 68.8%
2 lb - German Vienna, 17.1%
8 oz - Carapils, 4.3%
8 oz - CaraVienna 20L, 4.3% (I wanted 15-20 crystal and this is what the LHBS had)
11.5 oz - Demerara cane sugar, 6.1%
Hops: 76 IBU
30 min - 30g Centennial
10 min - 11g CTZ, 14g Simcoe, 30g Centennial
5 min - 15g Simcoe, 20g Centennial
Whirlpool/steeped hops added at 170 degrees and allowed to cool naturally, stirring occasionally for 20 minutes. - 20g Simcoe, 20g Centennial.
Dry hop 3 days @ 60F - 20g Sabro, 25g Simcoe, 56g Centenial (it's what was left in the bag)
OG: 1.075
FG: 1.019 - 71% AA, typical of A38
I does look great man! Mind sharing your grain bill on this one? Assuming you got a nice dose of crystal/caramel malts to get that nice copper color? Also assuming you didn't load up on high polyphenol hops which tend to add to haze.This was my dry hopped west coast style dipa. It was truly a thing of beauty and tasted pretty damn good too! View attachment 723385
Pale ale malt as the base at 85%, 7% white wheat, 4% flaked oats and 4% crystal 60. It was magnum for bittering addition at 60, and then falconer’s flight for a 10 minute addition, a whirlpool addition and again for a dry hop. I didn’t use any post boil fining agents, only whirfloc during the boil. I think this is up there as one of the best looking beers I have brewed and it was pretty darn tasty as well. Think I will try this same grain bill with different hop combinations to see what I think.I does look great man! Mind sharing your grain bill on this one? Assuming you got a nice dose of crystal/caramel malts to get that nice copper color? Also assuming you didn't load up on high polyphenol hops which tend to add to haze.
Thanks! .25 oz/gallon whirlpool, 1.5 oz/gallon for the dry hop.That does look great. What was the amount of whirlpool and dry hop additions?
Thanks! .25 oz/gallon whirlpool, 1.5 oz/gallon for the dry hop.
Thank you @Elric for joining the discussion. I'm curios what yeast you used? So dry hop at 1.5 oz per gallon with Falconer's Flight and no haze. That's a pretty healthy dry hop addition. I found this below in a quick search for Falconer's Flight hops. For a juicy profile my limited experience I would tend towards the Centennial and Citra portion of the blend.Thanks! .25 oz/gallon whirlpool, 1.5 oz/gallon for the dry hop.
I fermented hot with Voss Kveik. Almost everything I did screams hazy, except I waited for primary fermentation to finish (so theoretically less or no bio-transformation) and brought temps down for the dry hop and cold crashed it for three days before kegging it.
Lots of good info there. Thanks for contributing to the conversation.You can make the same beer clear or hazy bitter or not with just process tweaks... literally the same grain bill, hop timing and amounts and yeast strain.
Certain hops are high in polyphenols, they will tend to leave beer with a significant haze unless you fine it cold side. Others are not and will result in a clearer beer using the same process.
“Modern” IPA whether it’s hazy or not is more focused on hop aromatic and flavor than IPAs of 6/8/10 years ago. Pliny is dry hopped at 2#/bbl I believe and that’s Pale ale dry hopping levels for a lot of the great hoppy beer breweries now. “Standard” IPA dry hopping rates are closer to 4#/bbl. East or west coast
A lot has come to the surface in recent years about crystal/cara malts and even dark Munich and the oxidative effect they have on hoppy beers. I’d call most well made IPAs these days just hop delivery vehicles with not much more than base malt and often times the cleanest most boring base malt out there... looking at you Canadian Pilsner malt. And believe it or not you can make a permanently hazy beer with just Pilsner malt...
The two breweries that really pioneered “hazy” beer (Alchemist and Hill Farmstead) both make bitter beers. Edward is 80+ theoretical IBUs at 5.2%. However they were often times a softer bitterness due to a better understanding of water and other aspects of the brewing process that affect bitterness and also their yeast which tends to be a bit softer.
As is standard in everything the pendulum has swung way to far and what so many people think is supposed to be NEIPA is now murky, sweet, chalky, and tastes/smells like rotting fruit and is honestly horrible. Chasing an aesthetic has been the goal not making great hoppy beer.
Paying attention to the pH of your boil, your water chemistry and especially in regards to your intended FG, and kettle finings usage can have a huge inpact on the final beer.
In my experience it’s actually easier to make very hazy beer with highly flocculent yeast. The more yeast in suspension the more likely the beer is to clear over time. If you want crystal clear highly hopped beer you really need to fine it.
Recipe of 2 row, dextrin, and some small percentage of character malt is all you malt is all you need... try to get as clear or a wort into the kettle as possible.. higher kettle pH equals better isomerizartion and protein coagulation, lower boil pH equals lower isomerizartion and less protein coagulation. Targets should be different depending on the finished beer. I sometimes do additions at 60 but usually just 30/10/180 WP. Kettle finings if you want clearer beer, no finings if you don’t. Ferment on the cooler side with a high floccing English yeast. Dry hop sub 60 after removing as much yeast as possible. If you really want crystal clear beer definitely fine it, although you lose hop character IMHO.
LIf you really want crystal clear beer definitely fine it
That’s a long time to wait for clear beer but you could be right anyway. I typically use 1/2 whirfloc tab per 5 gallons , but now having cold crash ability, might not need it.I disagree that fining is required for crystal clear beer. We lagered a doppelbock for 90 days (no fining) and you could read the paper through it.
I disagree that fining is required for crystal clear beer. We lagered a doppelbock for 90 days (no fining) and you could read the paper through it.
Anyone have experience with S33?
Yeah, I went into it knowing that it was going to be better suited for a hazy, but was curious of any experiences in a WCIPA/american ipa type. I pitched most of the packet into that IPA, and used the leftover into a small batch DIPA which is definitely more aimed at being a hazy. Nottingham drops everything clear for me, but its so boring...The depth of my experience is a batch that I kegged about a week ago (split, half with US-05, half with S-33). It was a Pale Ale with hops in a 170F hopstand, but no dry hops. The US-05 batch is more clear but the S-33 batch is not far behind. I got 68% attenuation on the S-33. I get a character that I could see fitting "dried apricot". I am not sure it is a character that I want is a classic American IPA or Pale Ale, but I could see it working in a fruity...ummmm...hazy! (I picked up the pack of S-33 with a plan to try it in a hazy, but figured I would give it a try in a Pale Ale.)
Second bottle of my latest using S33. Centennial, mosaic, Idaho 7. Some nice fruit from the mosaic and I7, but heavier pine and citrus (which I like). Shocked that S33 dropped this clear with whirlfloc being my only fining. I also usually have chill haze but this is after maybe 2-3 days in the fridge.
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Not getting a ton in the way of apricot but my senses aren’t what they used to be. It could be there, and I’m mistaking it for the fruitier hops. It’s working for me, though.
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