Making beer darker without adding taste.

[chad_]

I am planning a beer that is 11 SRM with mostly maris otter and victory. I was wondering if it is possible, and if so what grains to use to increase the color from 11 SRM to around +30 SRM with affecting the taste as little as possible.

Thank you!

 

[bob3000]

use brewers caramel, cinemar, or debittered black malt like carafa special

 

[chad_]

I haven't seen carafa special before, is that similar to carafa III?

 

[jbaysurfer]

carafa was what I was going to say as well. You can also "top mash" black patent or any other dark malt to add color. This means adding the dark grain at the very end of the mash so that it doesn't convert, but the color will still come out of it into the wort.

That's a giant leap you're trying to make though, so I'm not sure how much dark malt you'd have to top mash to get it from 11 to 30+....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I am planning a beer that is 11 SRM with mostly maris otter and victory. I was wondering if it is possible, and if so what grains to use to increase the color from 11 SRM to around +30 SRM with affecting the taste as little as possible.

Thank you!

How do you make a beer darker without changing the flavor?

Simple, turn off the lights.

 

[chad_]

Thank you for the imput, I may go with darker malts to bring the SRM up to around 20, then top mash with a debittered dark malt.

 

[chad_]

How do you make a beer darker without changing the flavor?

Simple, turn off the lights.

Thank you for solving all my problems! haha

 

[Magic8Ball]

I am planning a beer that is 11 SRM with mostly maris otter and victory. I was wondering if it is possible, and if so what grains to use to increase the color from 11 SRM to around +30 SRM with affecting the taste as little as possible.

Thank you!

The grains mentioned in the earlier replies will work great to darken your beer. Assuming you are using a 60% MO and 40% Victory. If you add 6.5% De-Bittered Black malt (550 SRM) you should hit your 30 SRM.
Assuming a 6 gal batch 72% eff = 6.5lbs MO 4.5lbs Victory 12 oz DeBittered Black Malt
That much black malt will have an effect on your beers flavor.

 

[TNGabe]

I haven't seen carafa special before, is that similar to carafa III?

Carafa special is dehusked, comes in I, II, and III like regular. Carafa III is similar to black patent, Carafa III special is similar to de-bittered black.

 

[Demus]

I think going from 11 to 30 will be impossible without adding flavor. That said, the darkest (highest SRM) de-bittered or de-husked malt used in small amounts will be your best chance. I'd guess you could darken by about SRM without flavor impact. After that, I think you'll taste anything except food coloring!

 

[GuldTuborg]

Would cold steeping something like Midnight Wheat and adding it to the boil do the trick? There's always Sinamar if not.

 

[iowabrew]

I have cold steeped Carafa III before and added the liquid @ 10min before. This had a very minimal affect on the flavor outcome of the beer. It's worth a shot.

 

[Magic8Ball]

I am planning a beer that is 11 SRM with mostly maris otter and victory. I was wondering if it is possible, and if so what grains to use to increase the color from 11 SRM to around +30 SRM with affecting the taste as little as possible.

Thank you!

If you don't mind my asking, what's your recipe?

 

[TNGabe]

I feel that cold steeping or adding grain late offer no benefit. If you want as much color as possible, grind the carafa special or de-bittered black to a powder in a coffee grinder. You won't get any more flavor than other methods and you'll get a lot more color.

 

[chad_]

Magic8Ball my recipe is:
10 lbs maris otter
1.5 lbs crystal 60
1.5 lbs victory
58 ounces pumpkin @60 minutes in boil.
Not sure about the hops yet.
My goal was for a dark pumpkin ale for halloween.
Now I think im going with 0.5 lb of debittered black malt at the end of the mash. I also read that longer boil=darker color, so I think I might do a 70-90 minute boil depending on the amount of wort I have. (Don't want to end up with <4 gallons of wort).

 

[Patirck]

I just used midnight wheat for the first time in a mild and it turned it just about black without adding any astringency, bitterness or noticeable dark roasty kind of flavors. Worked great and a little goes a long way.

 

[Patirck]

I just read your recipe and it seems to me like a really good fit for midnight wheat. Not sure where you are but I don't think it's available everywhere. You probably only need 4 oz or so for your recipe.

 

[Andrikos]

These are the directions for adding Sinamar:

http://www.weyermann.de/eng/produkte.asp?idkat=26&umenue=yes&idmenue=0&sprache=2

"Recommended Quantities:
Use 14 g (11.9 ml) of SINAMAR® Color Malt Extract to darken 1 hl of beer or wort by 1 EBC; or use 1.5 oz. (1.25 fl.oz.) to darken 1bbl of beer or wort by 1° Lovibond."

It's quite potent stuff.

 

[Demus]

Longer boil darkens but also changes flavor via kettle caramelization. ... Go with :60 and the midnight wheat...

 

[chad_]

Longer boil darkens but also changes flavor via kettle caramelization. ... Go with :60 and the midnight wheat...

Alright, that sounds like what I will do. When do you recommend adding it? In the mash or at the end of the mash before sparging? Or, as TNGabe suggested, grind it up to a powder?

 

[Demus]

Personally I'd just put it on with the mash...

 

[jtejedor]

IMO you end up adding some slight roast character with any of the methods listed. Sure the impact will be much less just be aware that there will always be some dark grain taste imparted no matter what even with sinimar. If you like dark beer then it shouldn't be a problem I just know some people don't like dark beer at all. I usually just throw the roast grains in with the sparge and am pleased with the results.

 

[drainbamage]

My LHBS occasionally carries a grain called blackprinz that is supposed to add color without affecting flavor, although I've never used it and can't vouch for it.

 

[Demus]

Just have to ask; what's the reason for wanting darker color without the associated flavor? I understand wanting your beer to look good, but why would you want it to look like something it's not? Think about it, if you could make a pale stout, would you? Wouldn't it be weird, not good?

 

[chad_]

Just have to ask; what's the reason for wanting darker color without the associated flavor? I understand wanting your beer to look good, but why would you want it to look like something it's not? Think about it, if you could make a pale stout, would you? Wouldn't it be weird, not good?

I was aiming to make a Halloween beer. The flavor is going to be a pumpkin flavor and I wanted it to be dark because of following with the theme of Halloween.

 

[kombat]

This means adding the dark grain at the very end of the mash so that it doesn't convert, but the color will still come out of it into the wort.

Dark malts don't convert, and many dark ingredients aren't even malted (eg., Roasted Barley). Crystal malts are already converted. That's why partial mash brewers can steep them without necessarily mashing. Only base malts and certain adjuncts convert.

I recently brewed a Black IPA, and I used 12 oz. of Carafa II Special for the colour. However, I omitted it from the mash, only adding it with my sparge water (I batch sparged). It's still fermenting, so the flavour profile remains to be seen, but the colour certainly looks like what I was going for.

 

[kombat]

Think about it, if you could make a pale stout, would you? Wouldn't it be weird, not good?

Am I the only one here old enough to remember what a huge success Crystal Pepsi was?

 

[vraftsman]

I get your intent on color and this isn't helpful in the darken-my-beer department, but you could consider making a spiced pumpkin porter and a pumpkin ale, serve layered so you get the best of both worlds without changing your original recipe, which is what it sounds like you don't want to mess with. It would be very appropriately themed I think.

 

[Magic8Ball]

Magic8Ball my recipe is:
10 lbs maris otter
1.5 lbs crystal 60
1.5 lbs victory
58 ounces pumpkin @60 minutes in boil.
Not sure about the hops yet.
My goal was for a dark pumpkin ale for halloween.
Now I think im going with 0.5 lb of debittered black malt at the end of the mash. I also read that longer boil=darker color, so I think I might do a 70-90 minute boil depending on the amount of wort I have. (Don't want to end up with <4 gallons of wort).

I like your ideas on this. Kind of a caramel pumpkin pie with pie crust bready thing. I have found De-Bittered Black the least roasty toasty bitter of what I have used. I have NOT tried all of the suggested grains.

Based on your recipe with 90 min boil and 8oz of de-bittered black malt I get a 27.3 SRM Thats very dark brown, but not black.

IMO Why risk getting roasty toasty in this beer. Skip color grain addition and do the saint patty's day green beer thing. Just add some food coloring at bottling or at kegging. Prost M8B