Making a Kornøl

[KeizerBrewr]

For those of you that are of Nordic descent, you might be familiar with the types of Nordic ales. That being said, I am planning on making an extract recipe to mirror an early style of Kornøl, brewed with juniper tips and berries, not hops. I know that Vikings from Norway, Sweden and Denmark had types of actual strains of kveik that they used to maintain a constant supply of ale in their halls and farmsteads. I was thinking Hornindal as it is fruity and acidic/tart. But what about Opshaug?

 

[KeizerBrewr]

59 views and nothing? C'mon fellow nerds! Any input is welcome.

 

[hotbeer]

Kornøl = no boil?

That takes most of the fun out of it.

Seriously though, I've have no idea what a Kornøl is and just briefly skimmed over a google search for it to come up with a response for you.

 

[KeizerBrewr]

Yes, its a raw ale. Quite good. It traditionally isn't hopped(in most cases) and uses juniper and meadowsweet to create the aromatics and bitterness.

 

[michaeltrego]

Lars is the kveik man - Kornøl

 

[KeizerBrewr]

I read through that well-written blog, poured over everything on the site, actually.

 

[Witherby]

For those of you that are of Nordic descent, you might be familiar with the types of Nordic ales. That being said, I am planning on making an extract recipe to mirror an early style of Kornøl, brewed with juniper tips and berries, not hops. I know that Vikings from Norway, Sweden and Denmark had types of actual strains of kveik that they used to maintain a constant supply of ale in their halls and farmsteads. I was thinking Hornindal as it is fruity and acidic/tart. But what about Opshaug?

Do you have Lars Marius Garshol’s Historical Brewing Techniques? He had two Kornøl recipes and one uses Hornindal

 

[KeizerBrewr]

Do you have Lars Marius Garshol’s Historical Brewing Techniques? He had two Kornøl recipes and one uses Hornindal

I do not. Sounds like I should though!

 

[Witherby]

I’m just glad to see anyone considering brewing traditional farmhouse ales rather than just using kveik for pseudo lagers and hazy IPAs!

 

[KeizerBrewr]

I've always been interested in the old ways of brewing and this one definitely strikes a chord.

 

[McMullan]

I know that Vikings from Norway, Sweden and Denmark had types of actual strains of kveik that they used to maintain a constant supply of ale in their halls and farmsteads.

Seriously, how do you know that? Did you read it somewhere on the internet?

 

[KeizerBrewr]

Seriously, how do you know that? Did you read it somewhere on the internet?

No HBT Master Nay-Sayer. Through heritage and the old men in my family telling me so.

 

[McMullan]

No HBT Master Nay-Sayer. Through heritage and the old men in my family telling me so.

That's interesting, because 99.99999% of Norwegians had never heard of 'kveik' or 'tradition Norwegian home brew' until a few years ago. Kind of puts the 'heritage' to rest in its correct perspective. They all know about spud moonshine, though. I've been living in Norway since 2013 and was a frequent visitor (of the Norwegian outlaws) for almost 20 years before that. As a beer lover, since the age of 4, I could tell you all about Norwegian beer in 5 minutes and how sh*t it is. Reflections of an impoverished history on the periphery of civilisation. They could barely feed themselves, for goodness' sake. A far cry from romantic tales about brewing at the drop of hat whenever the need called. 'Master nay-sayer', aye? I can think of much much worse things to be, to be honest. Most start with 'bull' and end with 'what a load of bollocks'.

 

[AlexKay]

I’ve nothing to add on yeast, but Sugar Creek Malt makes excellent Nordic (so they say) smoked malts. And they sell direct to homebrewers in as small as 10-pound bags.

 

[palmtrees]

I've been working on a kornol recipe to make soon! Have you seen kveiktraining.com? That guy's farm is in the region where they make kornol. He also sells packets of his farm's kveik, so it's about as authentic as you could get. It's the real kveik culture, rather than a strain isolated from kveik, which is what practically all the commercial examples are. I believe that yeast is #8 Tormodgarden on the kveik registry. I received a little baggie of dried kveik flakes a few weeks after I ordered.

As for the other ingredients, I went with a pilsner malt. I was researching more heritage malts. Sugar Creek makes some awesome sainnhaus malt, but it's not appropriate for kornol. They purport to make wind malt, which would be more to style, but they've always been out of stock when I check. I may get their stuff if I make another style of Norwegian beer, though. Also very interested in their lavendar smoked malt and crystal rye. Basic brewing radio has a good episode about their malts. For hops, I plan to do Saaz as a first wort hop. Then I got some juniper branches from an etsy brewing store that I'm going to use for a juniper infusion for the mash.

Process wise, I do biab, so I can't replicate things too precisely. But I'm planning to make a juniper infusion, then do my mash with that at 152. I'll pull some wort to get the kveik going. Toward the end of the mash, I'll add the hops and then do a mashout of sorts at 180 for ten minutes to try and kill all the bugs I can in the wort. Then pull the grains and cool things down to 80 or so, pitch the kveik and let it rip. I'm planning to keg and carbonate normally because that's really my only dispensing system at the moment.

I'll probably make this in January. I can report back more when I brew, if you want!

 

[AlexKay]

Great Fermentations says they have the wind malt in stock.

The lavender-smoked is excellent. I just brewed a lavender eis-rauch-bock. Still experimenting with the crystal rye. It tastes good straight up, but the brewing I’ve done with it is still in the fermentation/conditioning stage.

 

[McMullan]

I’ve nothing to add on yeast, but Sugar Creek Malt makes excellent Nordic (so they say) smoked malts. And they sell direct to homebrewers in as small as 10-pound bags.

Indeed, some Nordic countries have a long-established culture of malting barley. Norway's not one of them. Sweden and even piddly little Denmark were blessed with infinitely more arable land than mountainous Norway outcast on the periphery. The contrast in landscapes between Norway and Sweden are like night and day. The only thing genuinely comparable is some latitude.

 

[palmtrees]

Indeed, some Nordic countries have a long-established culture of malting barley. Norway's not one of them. Sweden and even piddly little Denmark were blessed with infinitely more arable land than mountainous Norway outcast on the periphery. The contrast in landscapes between Norway and Sweden are like night and day. The only thing genuinely comparable is some latitude.

Are you trying to say Norway has no barley malting traditions? Lars Garshol's research shows quite the opposite. Happy to take your word that Denmark and Sweden were more arable and had more abundant barley around. But it's quite clear that Norwegian farmers were growing barley for centuries and malting it in a number of different ways, which I expect were used in Sweden, too. Sugar Creek's processes approximate some of those better than most anything else commercially available.

 

[McMullan]

Lars Garshol's research shows quite the opposite.

Does it? Is that because it’s mainly based on wild speculation, guesswork and beliefs? Credible evidence is in far too short supply in my view, which is why my interest waned very early on in the storytelling. I think what you meant to type was more like ‘Garshol's opinion claims quite the opposite’. He certainly seems to express a very vivid imagination.

But it's quite clear that Norwegian farmers were growing barley for centuries and malting it in a number of different ways.

Really? Enlighten me how you came to believe that? That destitute farmers on the periphery of civilisation, in one of the least self-sufficient countries in the world, impoverished by a mountainous landscape and 1000 years of net emigration, had sufficient locally grown barley to take up malting to brew romantically in the hills, according to 21st century fairytales? Did you read it somewhere online? Perhaps you googled it without any filters on? Why don’t you attempt to confirm it yourself? Let me know what you find. One thing we could all agree on is why brewing didn't develop much as a culture in Norway. The lack of any clear development is a true reflection of Norway's historical poverty on the periphery. No level of romantic bullsh*t hides that fact. Unless, for whatever reason, you let it.

Sugar Creek's processes approximate some of those better than most anything else commercially available.

I wouldn't know, but it sounds like a new business set up to exploit the craft 'revolution' offering romanticism as its marketing strategy. I'm sure their malts are fine, they sound great, but they're supposed to, to sell, right? A bit like Viking Malt, the "world’s leading malting company of special malts". More marketing spiel. In all my years as a home brewer I haven't ever knowingly used a malt produced by Viking Malt, even though they're the world's leading blah, blah, blah!

 

[Witherby]

From Garshol's Historical Brewing Techniques, page 63:

"Archaelogical excavations in southwestern Norway in 1933 found a similar kind of kiln, this one made of rounded stones, with a small fireplace under a big, flat stone. The finds were dated to the fifth century CE--on seeing them, the district veterinary exclaimed that similar malt kilns were still found on nearby farms."
with an endnote reference to Petersen, J. (1933). Gamle gårdsanlegg i Rogaland fra forhistorisk tid og middelalder (Serie B--Skrifter ; 23). Oslo, Cambridge, Mass.: H. Aschehoug &; Harvard University Press

The chapter on malting has 48 footnotes to various history and archaeology sources.

 

[AlexKay]

Hey, Mac, it’s ok. Have a homebrew.

If there’s no history of brewing, where did kveik come from? If Norwegians were brewing with kveik for centuries (which seems likely given its properties and genetic distinctness), where were they getting malt?

 

[McMullan]

From Garshol's Historical Brewing Techniques, page 63:

"Archaelogical excavations in southwestern Norway in 1933 found a similar kind of kiln, this one made of rounded stones, with a small fireplace under a big, flat stone. The finds were dated to the fifth century CE--on seeing them, the district veterinary exclaimed that similar malt kilns were still found on nearby farms."
with an endnote reference to Petersen, J. (1933). Gamle gårdsanlegg i Rogaland fra forhistorisk tid og middelalder (Serie B--Skrifter ; 23). Oslo, Cambridge, Mass.: H. Aschehoug &; Harvard University Press

The chapter on malting has 48 footnotes to various history and archaeology sources.

Do any of these footnotes point to an actual Norwegian brewing culture? 'The district veterinary exclaimed'?

 

[McMullan]

Hey, Mac, it’s ok. Have a homebrew.

If there’s no history of brewing, where did kveik come from? If Norwegians were brewing with kveik for centuries (which seems likely given its properties and genetic distinctness), where were they getting malt?

If there was where did it go? Surely to vanish with barely any traces suggests it wasn't actually much of a tradition at all. Where did kveik come from? Semi-domesticated 'wildlings' adapted to ferment spud moonshine washes is the most likely answer, if you ask me. Distilling potato moonshine seems to have been considerably bigger than brewing ale in Norwegian culture for the last 200 years. Why do kveik behave exactly like distiller's yeast, I wonder? How does Norwegian aquavit differ from Danish and Swedish aquavit? Why? Why did Norwegians use spuds instead of grains?

Edit: Alex, it's OK. Most people are born to be conned by con artists. They just don't like to admit it and even express denial about it, if pushed, facilitating the con artist's agenda even more. You couldn't make it up. It's perfectly normal, though. I just can't help imagining it as some kind of 'Monty Python' sketch. A small number of farming families off the grid in rural Norway have been distilling spud moonshine illegally for the last 200 years. Some nosey craft-nerd city bloke from Oslo shows up asking awkward questions about 'kveik' and the farmers just nod their heads suspiciously, eyes glazed with guilt above fake grins, elbowing each other in the ribs and claiming 'they've been craft brewing ales for centuries'. The city bloke's excitement too difficult to contain so off he bloggs with no idea.

Cheers!

 

[palmtrees]

In an attempt to get this thread back to its original purpose, @KeizrBrewr do you know where you saw that kornol is usually unhopped? Or are you thinking it must have been that way before hops were widespread in Europe? When I was doing recipe research this summer, it seemed like most folks use Saaz in the style, but I'm not set on anything yet and would definitely like to see more accounts about hopping (or lack thereof) if you have any links!

 

[Witherby]

In an attempt to get this thread back to its original purpose, @KeizrBrewr do you know where you saw that kornol is usually unhopped? Or are you thinking it must have been that way before hops were widespread in Europe? When I was doing recipe research this summer, it seemed like most folks use Saaz in the style, but I'm not set on anything yet and would definitely like to see more accounts about hopping (or lack thereof) if you have any links!

Maybe this: Norwegian farmhouse ale styles | Larsblog

 

[Witherby]

Do any of these footnotes point to an actual Norwegian brewing culture? 'The district veterinary exclaimed'?

"In the late seventeenth century, a nameless Danish administrator wrote about upper Telemark in eastern Norway: "Up there...the menfolk brew all their beer themselves," (reference to Torleiv Hannaas. Ordsamling fraa Robyggjelaget fraa slutten av 1600 talet (handskr. nr. 1506, 4to i Thottske samling) (Aeldre norske sprogminder, udg. af den Norske historiske kildeskrift-kommission, page 47.

Just buy the book and read it yourself. I think it is well researched and documented.

 

[McMullan]

"In the late seventeenth century, a nameless Danish administrator wrote about upper Telemark in eastern Norway: "Up there...the menfolk brew all their beer themselves," (reference to Torleiv Hannaas. Ordsamling fraa Robyggjelaget fraa slutten av 1600 talet (handskr. nr. 1506, 4to i Thottske samling) (Aeldre norske sprogminder, udg. af den Norske historiske kildeskrift-kommission, page 47.

Seriously? Norway's a lot bigger than Telemark. What were the womenfolk doing? No brewsters? Or was it just noteworthy because in areas of Telemark menfolk brewed with malt shipped from Denmark? How much do we really want to read into these kinds of cherry-picked statements? Where's the evidence of a brewing tradition for Norway? Again, if it was 'all that' why did it seemingly vanish into thin air?

 

[AlexKay]

Just ordered my copy of Historical Brewing Techniques.

I'll go out on a limb and guess that pretty much every pre-industrial agricultural society brewed some sort of farmhouse (i.e., small-scale by individual farmers) 5%-or-so ABV beverage, because of water safety issues and because people like alcohol. There are certainly plenty of examples. I'm curious if anyone can provide a counter-example.

Also, the answer to "what starch did Norwegians traditionally use for brewing?" can only be "potato" from about 1600 on.

 

[McMullan]

I'll go out on a limb and guess that pretty much every pre-industrial agricultural society brewed some sort of farmhouse (i.e., small-scale by individual farmers) 5%-or-so ABV beverage, because of water safety issues and because people like alcohol.

Only potentially beneficial in densely populated areas with crap sewage systems, like historical London, where much higher gravity Gin was a safer bet, I'd say. At least that's the source of the story favouring alcohol. Norway's been among the most sparsely populated areas on the periphery of Europe since the end of the last ice age. Nor is there a shortage of clean drinking water in Norway, which has been blessed by the water gods, having such a mountainous topography just off the North Atlantic. Ironically, it's great water for brewing lager straight form the tap. What a tease!

Also, the answer to "what starch did Norwegians traditionally use for brewing?" can only be "potato" from about 1600 on.

Do you want to elaborate a bit here. Maybe draw out your thought process so it becomes more coherent?

 

[AlexKay]

I'll go out on a limb and guess that pretty much every pre-industrial agricultural society brewed some sort of farmhouse (i.e., small-scale by individual farmers) 5%-or-so ABV beverage, because of water safety issues and because people like alcohol. There are certainly plenty of examples. I'm curious if anyone can provide a counter-example.

Spent some time Googling to answer my own question. "Navajo" appears to be one counter-example, though they're one of few exceptions among aboriginal Americans.

 

[McMullan]

Spent some time Googling to answer my own question. "Navajo" appears to be one example, though they're one of few exceptions among aboriginal Americans.

Alex, drinking water is very good for you generally. Drinking untreated water direct from clean surface water sources is even better, because it contains algae oils like essential omega-3 fatty acids. Historically, in most places, water would have been much more beneficial than alcohol. Even though ethanol consumption is so enjoyable. Nor is the pleasure restricted to humans.

 

[AlexKay]

Do you want to elaborate a bit here. Maybe draw out your thought process so it becomes more coherent?

I'd hate to not be coherent. My suggestion is that in most agricultural societies before industrialization, farmers did make a beer-like beverage from whatever starch was on hand and well suited to brewing. Potatoes were introduced to Europe only in the late 16th century. So prior to this, if there were Norwegian farmers making a beer-like beverage (there probably were) they weren't using potatoes to make it.

On balance, I find the statement "Norwegian farmers have a history of making beer" plausible. There's been evidence presented in this thread supporting it. Your statements refuting it ("A small number of farming families off the grid in rural Norway have been distilling spud moonshine illegally for the last 200 years.") seem ... well ... more like "wild speculation, guesswork and beliefs."

 

[Witherby]

The myths are true. There are trolls in Norway.

 

[McMullan]

I'd hate to not be coherent. My suggestion is that in most agricultural societies before industrialization, farmers did make a beer-like beverage from whatever starch was on hand and well suited to brewing. Potatoes were introduced to Europe only in the late 16th century. So prior to this, if there were Norwegian farmers making a beer-like beverage (there probably were) they weren't using potatoes to make it.

On balance, I find the statement "Norwegian farmers have a history of making beer" plausible. There's been evidence presented in this thread supporting it. Your statements refuting it ("A small number of farming families off the grid in rural Norway have been distilling spud moonshine illegally for the last 200 years.") seem ... well ... more like "wild speculation, guesswork and beliefs."

Norway isn't really an agricultural society. It never was and never will be. Put simply, it doesn't have enough arable land, for the umpteenth time. The fact the 'farmers party' now form a coalition government in Norway really is something out of Monty Python. Like 'craft beer' potatoes arrived in Norway later than the rest of Europe. And, Alex, before simply regurgitating the words I type and expressing 'you're all out of ideas' please visit Norway some time and find out for yourself. Please don't take my world for it. It really hasn't changed that much in most places. Were it not for the occasional green John Deere tractor you'd struggle to guess which century you were in. Not exactly a celebration of cultural development in any respect, including brewing.

 

[McMullan]

The myths are true. There are trolls in Norway.

You might want to consider why the phrase 'troll' was coined to describe that kind of thing in the first place. More irony. But whatever helps you understand your world better helps you to understand your world better. Not my responsibility, frankly.

 

[Svein Tore]

My first post, but feel I need to give some "inside information" about Norway and Norwegians

Alcholic drinks have been hugely important in Norway at least from the Viking age (first Norwegian written history I can think of). A lot of stories about drinking in Norse mythology and we had the Gulating law (900-1300) which regulated brewing. All farms had to brew beer or they would be fined and if they didn't brew three years in a row they would loose their farm. So brewing beer has been serious business

You also had to attend parties where you drank in honor of the gods, and you had to get drunk or the brewer would be shamed for not having strong enough beer. It didn't matter if you were the priest or the police, you had to get drunk. Maybe it's why we still get wasted each weekend

We have a lot of brewing tradition in Norway, but it's mostly local farm tradition and not widely known. I guess much of the reason is that Norway was under Danish and Swedish ruling between 1380-1905 and thus Norwegian tradition was frowned upon. After the unions, christianity, sobriety and a law called ølloven (the beer law) forbade brewing at home unless you made your own malt (1912-1999).

So there was a long period where we had to keep brewing "hidden". I think this partly explains why brewing tradition in Norway is little known to the rest of the world. Another reason could be "janteloven" (google it) which stand strong in Norway.

But today local breweries are popping up everywhere and some of them are making fantastic beer. This have given a spark to local farm brewing and people want to learn more about old brewing traditions.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Edit: Alex, it's OK. Most people are born to be conned by con artists. They just don't like to admit it and even express denial about it, if pushed, facilitating the con artist's agenda even more. You couldn't make it up. It's perfectly normal, though. I just can't help imagining it as some kind of 'Monty Python' sketch. A small number of farming families off the grid in rural Norway have been distilling spud moonshine illegally for the last 200 years. Some nosey craft-nerd city bloke from Oslo shows up asking awkward questions about 'kveik' and the farmers just nod their heads suspiciously, eyes glazed with guilt above fake grins, elbowing each other in the ribs and claiming 'they've been craft brewing ales for centuries'. The city bloke's excitement too difficult to contain so off he bloggs with no idea.

Cheers!

Wow nice perspective. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[bracconiere]

damn, and the first time i tuned into this, i only made to the third post...laughed and left....didn't realize it went on further lol


but honestly if i understand it, a no-boil extract batch with juniper and berries....i'd make a tincture with the juniper, being they're not going to be boiled...and just toss the berries in a food proccessor or something...


edit: and honestly @McMullan , you're going to make an argument to drink water?


edit 2: and as far as yeast goes, i'd say just keep repitching for a year or so and fermenting warm? and that's a serious statement....create your own kviek?

 

[monkeymath]

Most people are born to be conned by con artists. They just don't like to admit it and even express denial about it, if pushed, facilitating the con artist's agenda even more.

Hey man,.I appreciate your input on the matter in the first couple of posts, but I find that condescending "Wake up, sheeple!"- rhetorics unacceptable.

 

[McMullan]

My first post, but feel I need to give some "inside information" about Norway and Norwegians

Alcholic drinks have been hugely important in Norway at least from the Viking age (first Norwegian written history I can think of). A lot of stories about drinking in Norse mythology and we had the Gulating law (900-1300) which regulated brewing. All farms had to brew beer or they would be fined and if they didn't brew three years in a row they would loose their farm. So brewing beer has been serious business

You also had to attend parties where you drank in honor of the gods, and you had to get drunk or the brewer would be shamed for not having strong enough beer. It didn't matter if you were the priest or the police, you had to get drunk. Maybe it's why we still get wasted each weekend

We have a lot of brewing tradition in Norway, but it's mostly local farm tradition and not widely known. I guess much of the reason is that Norway was under Danish and Swedish ruling between 1380-1905 and thus Norwegian tradition was frowned upon. After the unions, christianity, sobriety and a law called ølloven (the beer law) forbade brewing at home unless you made your own malt (1912-1999).

So there was a long period where we had to keep brewing "hidden". I think this partly explains why brewing tradition in Norway is little known to the rest of the world. Another reason could be "janteloven" (google it) which stand strong in Norway.

But today local breweries are popping up everywhere and some of them are making fantastic beer. This have given a spark to local farm brewing and people want to learn more about old brewing traditions.

Welcome to HBT, Svein!

No one is denying Norway’s relationships with alcohol I think you might be right, though, Jante Law might well be at least partly responsible. The cultural poverty it promotes certainly scuppers cultural development. Being insular, recalcitrant and suspicious of outsiders don’t exactly promote much in terms of cultural traditions at a national level. It’s a plausible explaination why so-called Norwegian farmhouse brewing is so eclectic rather than a newly rediscovered 'style' of brewing.

In the early 1950s there were about 180 traditional home brewers officially captured in Norway. By a survey! Probably a lot fewer 70 years later, as predicted by Odd Norland. Let’s be honest, a small inconsequential backwater in brewing, even in little Norway. The naive believe this is going to promote a new ‘farmhouse revolution’ to follow the ‘craft revolution’ is simply complete bollocks. I doubt the world’s ever going to be sufficiently prepared to accept Norwegian cuisine in any of its inglorious manifestations of the past for that fairy tale ending. Let’s be honest. At best I suspect things might develop a bit more in Norway for interested Norwegians. Outside Norway, just a small faction of the international home-brew community - mainly those who insist fairy tales are real. Experienced home brewers who adopted kveik early on now concede It’s just not the best yeast choice for most beer styles. The big pinch, for Norwegians, though, is the fact there’s not much money to be made from kveik. No one owns any rights to yeast and commercial yeast suppliers outside Norway have already saturated the market. It’s an eye-opening how many opportunists have crawled out of the woodwork to feast on the hysteria whipped up by storytellers.

My favourite Norwegian brewery is Ægir, which was set up by an American home brewer. It upped Norway's 'craft' scene considerably and, in my view, continues to lead Norway's very small market. The consistency and quality just can't be beaten. Unless it's pouring from my kegs, of course Norwegian 'farmhouse' ale is little more than quaint nostalgia celebrating historical poverty and isn't a contender or even competition for modern brewers. In fact, if one were to superimpose chronic levels of historical poverty and social exclusion across northern Europe I'd be very surprised if there wasn't a perfect match with Garshol's maps for traditional farmhouse brewing. Personally, as a humanist, I don't really view it as something to celebrate at all. Nor is it brewing better, in my honest opinion.