Make sure your element is SS if you can...

[maierhof]

Over the last year and a half I have been struggling with a flaw in my system. Every beer that I have made has just not tasted good at all. For a while, I took some time off from brewing because of this, only to come back at it harder. After cleaning almost every part of my system I thought I had isolated it to only find that it was still with me.

...and then I looked at my HERMS system which is where boil water at the end of the brew day and recirculate it throughout the system. Holy schnitzengruben - my jaw dropped - take a look at the pic!! And that is after 30 min of a heavy BKF cleaning with an extra Braun spinning head tooth brush! I knew that the element I use in my system was only temporary until I had more money to spend on a SS element. I NEVER thought it would rust out so quickly... but now I know. Changing to the brew hardware SS element with TC as soon as it arrives.

Then I checked my input/output connections to the same unit and found that I also had a piece of CHINA SS 304 tee which was rusted too. I also BKF cleaned it with my brush and it still has discoloration. The point I am driving at people is to check where you get your 304 or 316 from as it is apparent to me that some of the metal foundries over there are cheating. Not so shocking given all the other forms of cheating going on... like the latest craze of some arseholes taking a simple walnut and shucking the nut inside only to replace it with a rock and gluing it shut - really???!!

So as a result - I was recirculating nasty rusty water through my pipes and silicon tubes. No wonder the beer was cr@p.

My problem --> I have been to a number of tool shops this week and no one has a bit that gets around the nut inside my Still Dragon unit but still fits inside the hole. I can't get it out with simple needle nose pliers which is how I put it in... anyone have any ideas or a tool for this?

 

[fatnhappy]

Wow, that looks awful

 

[mredge73]

SS elements do not normally have SS bases...
If you remove it after every brew and allow it to dry completely it will reduce the rust build up.
Petroleum Jelly or keg lube on the base will also keep the rust minimal.

As far as your other point, SS can easily be impregnated with steel and rust at the surface.
If you clean your SS fittings with the same thing you clean your rusty element with, don't be surprised if you get some surface rust.

 

[jodell]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0183KIU1E/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This is what I bought, the whole base is stainless steel and it works flawlessly, I have on in my HLT and I'm about to get another one in my BK

 

[Maylar]

A cupped wire brush on a Dremmel should be able to get in there.

 

[mabrungard]

This is not really a big problem. I recommend treating the rusted area with Naval Jelly or phosphoric acid to stabilize the iron. Then coat the metal end with RTV silicone to seal it off from the liquid. You don't have to use high temp RTV since this area doesn't really get above the boiling point. This has worked well for me.

 

[kuestess]

I installed a magnesium sacrificial anode in my kettle and I don't have any problems with rust. Just using the regular Camco element.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000701HEQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[maierhof]

This is not really a big problem. I recommend treating the rusted area with Naval Jelly or phosphoric acid to stabilize the iron. Then coat the metal end with RTV silicone to seal it off from the liquid. You don't have to use high temp RTV since this area doesn't really get above the boiling point. This has worked well for me.

I have to admit that I really don't want anything in my beer that I don't understand all the way. RTV silicone seems to be made of a few different things - no way to really tell really unless I call the company.

My answer is more straight forward: just buy a new triclover all SS element from brew hardware. Of course I am spending $75 on it - but the way I look at it is that it meets all my specifications and it should last longer. Not only do I move away from the screw in method - yes the Still Dragon ferrule unit was a mistake looking back - but I get all SS which is much easier to clean. Also I get rid of my cord when I don't need it. Two pluses in my book... edit: I can also just remove the whole thing very easily due to it being TC. So three pluses =;>

Can I ask you - how do you clean that thing with silicone on it?

 

[stevehaun]

I have been brewing electric for over 8 years now. I simply ignore the rust on the base of the elements. I usually accidentally dry fire my elements every couple of years and need to replace them. YMMV.

 

[passedpawn]

I have been brewing electric for over 8 years now. I simply ignore the rust on the base of the elements. I usually accidentally dry fire my elements every couple of years and need to replace them. YMMV.

I intentionally dryfire to burn off any crud. Just did it a few days ago. No effect so far.

 

[maierhof]

Well - today I received my vise from amazon and got to work on it.
It is done... actually pretty easily too.

I put it in the vise, placed some acetone on the base as the element were facing up allowing gravity to clear the threads, got a pipe wrench and went to town on it. Actually a lot less pressure than I thought it would take. Boy these elements are tough. The Still Dragon unit is in good shape still and a quick BKF clean later it is beautiful again.

Crisis averted and triclover SS element is on the way from brewhardware already.

Now I can't wait to actually brew beer that doesn't taste like arse...:rockin:

Thank you to Tartan1 for sending me that description of how you did it.

 

[bionut]

I really don't think that this small rusted area could make your beer taste bad. I so much iron would be dissolved in the water to make it taste bad you won't have any of the element left after a dozen or so brews.

 

[mabrungard]

I have to admit that I really don't want anything in my beer that I don't understand all the way. RTV silicone seems to be made of a few different things - no way to really tell really unless I call the company.

Can I ask you - how do you clean that thing with silicone on it?

Clean? This is a component on the hot-side of the process. There is no need to clean things other than remove debris and buildups. Nothing much sticks to silicone and its chemically inert. There are food-grade rated versions. I see no need to worry about this stuff in and on brewing equipment.

 

[stevehaun]

Maierhof:
If your beer tastes like arse, I would look for other causes. It is not from the rust on the base of your elements.

 

[Riot]

I'm really surprised seeing so many people say not to worry about the rust here. I understand intellectually that it's no big deal but I constantly see people worrying about stuff that is way less relevant

 

[mredge73]

I'm really surprised seeing so many people say not to worry about the rust here. I understand intellectually that it's no big deal but I constantly see people worrying about stuff that is way less relevant

That little bit of rust will not impact the flavor very much, if at all.
The pipes in older houses like mine are lined with rust. Hot water heaters are lined with rust. If brewing water isn't pre-filtered or RO, then you are getting rust in your beer. The element is not making his beer taste bad, that is defiantly something else. But it still needs to be addressed in one way or another.

 

[augiedoggy]

I installed a magnesium sacrificial anode in my kettle and I don't have any problems with rust. Just using the regular Camco element.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000701HEQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yeah but what if someone doesn't want the extra magnesium dissolved into thier beers as a work around? Considering there are numerous all stainless elements for $25-30 shipped This approach doesn't seem worth it.. in old days (over 2 years ago) before the all stainless elements were available for under $75 many people tried these sacrificial anode and most found it was thier water that really made the different and not the anode.

 

[augiedoggy]

That little bit of rust will not impact the flavor very much, if at all.
The pipes in older houses like mine are lined with rust. Hot water heaters are lined with rust. If brewing water isn't pre-filtered or RO, then you are getting rust in your beer. The element is not making his beer taste bad, that is defiantly something else. But it still needs to be addressed in one way or another.

Yeah well that's why it unanimously recommended that water from a hot water tank is not used for cooking or consumption... That and the additional heavy metals that dissolve into the water when it travels through old copper leaded soldier pipes at high temps.

 

[kuestess]

Yeah but what if someone doesn't want the extra magnesium dissolved into thier beers as a work around? Considering there are numerous all stainless elements for $25-30 shipped This approach doesn't seem worth it.. in old days (over 2 years ago) before the all stainless elements were available for under $75 many people tried these sacrificial anode and most found it was thier water that really made the different and not the anode.

If I could revive those brain cells, I'd work out how much magnesium it actually added to the water. At any rate, I doubt it's much. I've had mine in for 3 years and it still looks like it did when I purchased it. You're spot on that this was in the days before SS elements were cheap.

 

[maierhof]

Clean? This is a component on the hot-side of the process. There is no need to clean things other than remove debris and buildups.

Actually it is a separate 8 gallon old kettle which I made into my my HERMS heat exchanger. edit: See pics. The thought that drove this was that this part of the element and the material on the element itself would wear and put that material directly into my brew. I just couldn't stomach that...

With this move to a SS element - I can now PBW the inside of this thing with no regard to what happens to the element or its constituent parts.

I gotta disagree - mostly on the fact that I use this water (boiled) to clean my hoses and pumps at the end of my brew day.

Call me anal - sure - I know it, but I just want a perfect lager... =;>

Nothing much sticks to silicone and its chemically inert. There are food-grade rated versions. I see no need to worry about this stuff in and on brewing equipment.

Thank you for the quick lesson on silicone - it sounds like a great work around for people wanting to save their old style element from this kind of rust.

If I didn't have any money and wanted to save that element for my brews - I would use a food grade silicone.

IMHO - paying an extra ~$60 to ensure that I can clean the whole thing with PBW makes all the difference to me.

 

[maierhof]

It is not from the rust on the base of your elements.

You might be right on that point. But I still changed it out so that I can cross it off the list of items that I have double checked along this long arduous twisting road of an infection/problem with my beer...

Maierhof:
If your beer tastes like arse, I would look for other causes.

Right on point. TY for that.

I have been working on this issue now for well over a year. It actually got to me so much that I quit making beer for a while there... which is just really sad.

This is, imo, the final stages of me fixing this system. One more fix after this and I can actually say that I have triple checked my system thoroughly. I also spotted a number of minor screw ups along this road that I previously had no idea about. In all fairness - this has been a good learning experience for me.

Hopefully soon I will be able to brew a perfect lager with no hints of anything.