Make an argument FOR racking to secondary

[bigskygreg]

I know the the current general consensus is that transferring to a secondary vessel is not necessary, but I am still pretty new and trying to figure things out.

So my question to the forum is: if you don't usually use a secondary, but sometimes do, when and why do you?

I know a lot of folks only rack when adding something like dry hopping or fruit, but what about certain beers that you may want to age?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

 

[JonM]

1) Bulk aging for a long time (6 months or more)

2) I need to harvest that yeast for the batch I have planned next and no kegs are free

3) I need to clarify the beer with finings, etc. and want to harvest the yeast without the finings in it.

 

[GrogNerd]

brewed a barleywine at the end of January, put in secondary middle of February, bottled at the beginning of April.

racked it mostly to free up primary for another batch, also wanted it to condition awhile as a batch before bottling

 

[distributistdad]

I generally use a secondary. Clarity is always better for me when I do so, but I only use Irish Moss in the boil and I don't have the ability to cold crash.

I have the carboys to use, so I use them .

 

[stevedasleeve]

If the beer is way cloudy I have in the past racked it to secondary. If I need a 6.5 carboy I sometimes rack to my smaller carboy since the blow off/up possibility has diminished. If I do double dry hopping I sometimes rack it for the second dry hop.

90% of the time I don't bother. I frankly notice no difference when I do, it's mostly a whim or a need that doesn't relate to the beer quality particularly!

 

[BigFloyd]

1) Bulk aging for a long time (6 months or more)

2) I need to harvest that yeast for the batch I have planned next and no kegs are free

3) I need to clarify the beer with finings, etc. and want to harvest the yeast without the finings in it.

+1. Unless you have one of these situations, want to add something (like fruit) or want to dry hop (although you can in the primary), just leave it in the primary until bottling time.

Unfortunately, old habits and techniques die hard. There are still kits (even brown ales, porters and stouts) being sold which have printed instructions that tell you to ferment one week and secondary two.

 

[PDX_T]

if using a plastic bucket or something that doesn't make a good seal in primary.

 

[CBMbrewer]

1) Bulk aging for a long time (6 months or more)

2) I need to harvest that yeast for the batch I have planned next and no kegs are free

3) I need to clarify the beer with finings, etc. and want to harvest the yeast without the finings in it.

4) I am adding fruit for the beer to age on.

 

[WI_Wino]

I generally use a secondary. Clarity is always better for me when I do so, but I only use Irish Moss in the boil and I don't have the ability to cold crash.

I have the carboys to use, so I use them .

x2

 

[bigskygreg]

+1. Unless you have one of these situations, want to add something (like fruit) or want to dry hop (although you can in the primary), just leave it in the primary until bottling time.

Unfortunately, old habits and techniques die hard. There are still kits (even brown ales, porters and stouts) being sold which have printed instructions that tell you to ferment one week and secondary two.

Just wondering, you specifically pointed out browns, porters, and stouts. What is your typical schedule for those? I started with NB kits, but have started making my own recipes as I have recently gone to AG. But like you say, the kits have certain directions, but I'm hearing a different consensus here.

I am learning on my own based on experiences on this forum mainly. You input is greatly appreciated!

BTW, I'm brewing a brown ale recipe I created right now

 

[833R]

I almost always use a secondary. For dry hoping. Also if I'm using a yeast that has a low flocculation. Example yeast (I find) wyeast1056 floats around abit, a nice yeast though.
Needing the fermenters is also an issue. I have more secondarys then primarys

 

[BigFloyd]

Just wondering, you specifically pointed out browns, porters, and stouts. What is your typical schedule for those?

I mentioned those because clarity becomes less crucial the darker the beer becomes. What good does it do to secondary a porter? The little bit of clarity improvement you may possibly pick up is not noticeable and is more than offset by the increased risk of oxidation and (to a lesser degree) contamination.

I almost always use a secondary. For dry hoping. Also if I'm using a yeast that has a low flocculation. Example yeast (I find) wyeast1056 floats around abit, a nice yeast though.
Needing the fermenters is also an issue. I have more secondarys then primarys

On the opposite end of the brewing spectrum, I cold crash every batch in the primary 5-7 days @ 35-36*F (which results in very clear beer) and I don't do fruit beers, so I never secondary.

 

[samuelcollins]

If I am doing a seasonable brew like my all grain pumpkin ale, then I do secondary. Otherwise I skip it.
You can do all your dry hopping in primary, but if saving the yeast, and if you are going to dry hop or add clarifying agents at fermentation (I don't do the latter, some do) then best to rack off to secondary before adding those things.
That's about it.

I will say that I think beer ages better generally in glass Carboy, just my experience.

 

[Matt3989]

A few people in this thread have said that "you can dry hop in primary" so that the only benefit of dry hopping in a secondary is not screwing up your yeast cake.

Recent research points out that's not entirely true. You can dry hop in either vessel, but research at both UC Davis and at the Sapporo brewery say dry hopping onto the yeast produces a very different flavor profile than dry hopping off of the yeast.

I'm at work so I'm not looking up the chemistry, I know there was an article in zymurgy a few months ago.

Personally (like most) I rack to a secondary to make room in my larger primary carboys, or to move the beer off of, or on to, hops, fruit, oak, spices, etc. Or for extended bulk aging.

As for the issues, oxidation? Purge with co2 before hand. Contamination? Clean your sh*t. Nothing to worry about.

 

[bigskygreg]

What types of beer benefit from bulk aging vs bottle aging?


Thanks for all the great feedback!

 

[m_stodd]

People always mention clarity, and I don't understand that. Am I missing something?

How does stuff on the bottom of the container affect the solution above it? If you've ever experienced snow, once the snow reaches the ground (being more dense than air), it doesn't magically go back up, or cause the rest of the falling snow to stop falling... In fact, when you rack to a secondary, you're taking all the stuff close to the bottom that had almost settled, and putting it back to the top which had already started clearing.

 

[GrogNerd]

when you rack to a secondary, you're taking all the stuff close to the bottom that had almost settled

you wouldn't rack that, you would leave it

 

[m_stodd]

you wouldn't rack that, you would leave it

So you only rack the stuff that's already clear? What's the point? Sounds like it's time to bottle.

No matter where you stop, if you pick up beer that's not clear, at least some of it will be farther from the bottom than it just was.

 

[BigFloyd]

So you only rack the stuff that's already clear? What's the point? Sounds like it's time to bottle.

No matter where you stop, if you pick up beer that's not clear, at least some of it will be farther from the bottom than it just was.

That's why I like to cold crash. At fermenter temps, the trub/yeast layer in the bottom of the primary can be sort of fluffy and easily disturbed when moving the vessel and/or racking. After a good 5-7 day crash in the mid-30's, that layer firms up nicely and you tend to pick up less of it when you rack.

 

[GrogNerd]

So you only rack the stuff that's already clear? What's the point? Sounds like it's time to bottle.

hence the entire debate on the need for a secondary

it does help with clarity for those who can't cold crash

 

[m_stodd]

hence the entire debate on the need for a secondary

it does help with clarity for those who can't cold crash

I've yet to hear an explanation of how racking clear beer from a primary to a secondary is good for clarity. It's already clear. Bottle it.

 

[govner1]

I'm old& patient. I secondary ( Brite tank ) all my beers plus I keg condition all my beers. The results have been worth the time invested, i.e., clear, consistently well carbonated, tasty beers.

 

[GrogNerd]

I've yet to hear an explanation of how racking clear beer from a primary to a secondary is good for clarity. It's already clear. Bottle it.

who said it was CLEAR? someone above said it helped with clarity, didn't say he was racking CLEAR beer. it will help clear beer that needs clearing

& you asked about racking the stuff at the bottom

I agree that there wouldn't be a need to rack CRYSTAL CLEAR beer to a secondary for the sake of clarity, but no one was saying there was.

 

[m_stodd]

There's enough mis-communication, and I don't understand how it helps, might as well leave it

 

[PDX_T]

I've yet to hear an explanation of how racking clear beer from a primary to a secondary is good for clarity. It's already clear. Bottle it.

There's yeast on the bottom of a bottle after it sits right? Otherwise you couldn't carbonate in a bottle. So even what you bottle is not perfectly "clear". The secondary might help those who cannot cold crash increase clarity because it will extend the amount of time the beer can sit, without increasing risk of autolysis.

 

[sawbossFogg]

As Papazian stated so long ago leaving warmer fermenting beers on yeast longer will result in richer estery flavors.
For example, I have currently 2, 5 gallons portions of the same 10 gallon wet-hop pale ale fermenting now. The first I racked to dry hop. The second, I left on the yeast throughout the fermentation period and its distinctly more fruity, apple-like. This is just one example and there are always additional variables, but I generally find this situation to be the case and like to get beers of the yeast so as to limit these effects.

 

[eastoak]

People always mention clarity, and I don't understand that. Am I missing something?

How does stuff on the bottom of the container affect the solution above it? If you've ever experienced snow, once the snow reaches the ground (being more dense than air), it doesn't magically go back up, or cause the rest of the falling snow to stop falling... In fact, when you rack to a secondary, you're taking all the stuff close to the bottom that had almost settled, and putting it back to the top which had already started clearing.

exactly. i think it's just something that seems to make sense to some brewers; take the beer off of the yeast/trub or whatever is on the bottom of the fermentor and let it clear in another vessel. like you've pointed out exactly the same thing happens in the original fermentor if the beer is just left there or crash cooled. moving the beer is not going to make the beer clear faster nor is it a substitute for cold crashing, it's more of a delay in my view. come bottling time you still have a yeast cake on the bottom anyway so the same care has to be exercised not to suck yeast into the bottles (if you care about that anyway). i'm not telling anyone to do or not do anything, just wondering how beer clears any better or faster in a secondary.

 

[GrogNerd]

Eppur si muove

 

[eastoak]

Eppur si muove

to the rack with this one!