Low bucks motorized grain mill

[BeardedBrews]

What are you using for your power supply?

Forgot part of your question.

I'm using an 850W ATX power supply (massive overkill at 70+ amps but since it was sitting in my basement, it was free). It is a "single rail" with two modular PCI connections. I took a single 12v wire and a single ground wire from one of the PCI pigtails to drive the motor, and I'm using the power supply switch to turn it on and off.

I suspect that the 16 gauge wire that's the PCI pigtail isn't going to love a constant 20 amp draw, but I'll have to crush more than a pound to know that for sure.

I tried to capture the turn rate on the shaft during the crush, I'd say it would be a very rigorous rate if you were turning the hand crank that fast, but slow for a drill. When I run my next batch I will try to count the RPMs.

 

[Huaco]

I'm using an 850W ATX power supply (massive overkill at 70+ amps but since it was sitting in my basement, it was free). It is a "single rail" with two modular PCI connections. I took a single 12v wire and a single ground wire from one of the PCI pigtails to drive the motor, and I'm using the power supply switch to turn it on and off.

So, I picked up a ~280W single rail power supply yesterday from my IT guy in the office. Whey you say your 850W is overkill, how much overkill do you have? You think my 280W ps will work? If not, I can just pivot my plan with that ps and use it as a benchtop power supply for other projects.

 

[govner1]

Well, I also received the wrong spider, but it was 100% my fault. A quick trip to Grainger and $3 fixed that problem.



I have all the parts now, just need to find time to work on piecing it together, hopefully I will have time before this weekend. There's 80# of grain burning a hole in my pocket!

I wouldn't mill more than you need immediately. Shelf life on properly stored in milled grain is longer than milled.

 

[BeardedBrews]

So, I picked up a ~280W single rail power supply yesterday from my IT guy in the office. Whey you say your 850W is overkill, how much overkill do you have? You think my 280W ps will work? If not, I can just pivot my plan with that ps and use it as a benchtop power supply for other projects.

The motor specs claim to stall at 25 amps, which is like 320w at 12v DC.

I would bet you will be fine. Mine didn't seem to get close to stalling, I'd say it has plenty of spare power.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Ok @BeardedBrews @BeardedIdiot. I know you one of you had a mix-up on your Love Joy's. What sizes did you end up using? What are you using for your power supply?

I'm using these

11mm no keyway for the cereal killer

12mm with keyway (because I can't read) for the seat motor

Basically, you want 11mm and 12mm, or get pretty close with the cheapest available standard size.

I did L050 couplings which seem about right, and like an idiot, I initially ordered the L075 spider (too big). Grainger hooked me up for $3.00 on a correct L050 spider, and it turns out I could have just gotten the couplings from them too.

I'm using L050 couplings from Grainger. 10mm for the Cereal Killer and 12mm for the motor. 11mm was too big for the mill for me. The 10mm slides on smooth but has no wobble whatsoever. Same for the 12mm on the motor shaft. Slides on smooth with no wobble.

I also got an L050 spider from Grainger. I'm returning the spider and couplings I got from Amazon, since none of them are the right size for anything .

Edit: I am only returning the spider. It costs as much to ship the couplings back as I paid for them, so I'll keep them and try to find some other project to use them for.

I'm going to try to get my ATX power supply wiring fixed up, and get everything connected together to see how it runs this weekend. I don't have a brew day planned at the moment, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to run any grain through or not. I might have some really old grain I don't want to use that I can try it with.

I'll post pictures of any progress I make.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Wire 1 black up to the green, with a switch between if you want it to have an on/off switch. That fakes the supply into thinking there is a motherboard attached and turns on the supply. I soldered all the black (neutral) together with a lead running to the motor as well.

Hey Spellman, when you say wire "1 black up to the green, with a switch between", do you mean you soldered all the black together with a lead to the motor, except for 1 black wire which you connected to 1 side of the switch, with the green connected to the other side? Is this because with the switch between the green and a black, cutting it off cuts of power to the green and it turns the power off?

Just want to make sure before I start soldering wires together this weekend.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Well I clipped all the wires but black, yellow, and green. I haven't soldered them, but I do have then all wrapped together (blacks, yellows, and 1 black to the green). I'm wondering if my psu is different, because I'm not getting any voltage delivered through the wires. After an hour of screwing with it, I think I'm just going to buy a switching power supply off amazon like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MS4Z70/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[BeardedBrews]

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/atxpoonco.html

An atx power supply doesn't turn on until the mother board tells it to. There are two pins that you have to connect before you can get power.

I had a jumper thing like I linked. Many people just jam a paperclip in there, which works fine as well.

Search ATX Jumper for pictures and instructions on Google.

You will want to look at the data sheet for your power supply to see which of the wires actually have all 300 watts of 12v.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Well I clipped all the wires but black, yellow, and green. I haven't soldered them, but I do have then all wrapped together (blacks, yellows, and 1 black to the green). I'm wondering if my psu is different, because I'm not getting any voltage delivered through the wires. After an hour of screwing with it, I think I'm just going to buy a switching power supply off amazon like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MS4Z70/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I was too slow typing

 

[Firewalker11]

I got my Lovejoys from Surplus Center, the drive motor too. I opted for a 60 RPM motor, less tearing, more crushing.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/atxpoonco.html

An atx power supply doesn't turn on until the mother board tells it to. There are two pins that you have to connect before you can get power.

I had a jumper thing like I linked. Many people just jam a paperclip in there, which works fine as well.

Search ATX Jumper for pictures and instructions on Google.

You will want to look at the data sheet for your power supply to see which of the wires actually have all 300 watts of 12v.

Yeah, unfortunately I already cut off all of the connectors, so no figuring out which black wire it is from that. I'm honestly not 100% sure this power supply actually works. I don't remember what it came out of. It could have been a bad supply I had to replace.

The one linked above, or maybe this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D7CWSCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 will just be a lot easier to use.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Accidental double post.

 

[Spellman]

Hey Spellman, when you say wire "1 black up to the green, with a switch between", do you mean you soldered all the black together with a lead to the motor, except for 1 black wire which you connected to 1 side of the switch, with the green connected to the other side? Is this because with the switch between the green and a black, cutting it off cuts of power to the green and it turns the power off?

Just want to make sure before I start soldering wires together this weekend.

Yes, been a while since I wrote that and had to think about it a little. Doesn't appear that I worded it very clearly, but the green to black tells the psu that it is good to go to power on the motherboard (in our case motor).

 

[BeardedBrews]

Yeah, unfortunately I already cut off all of the connectors, so no figuring out which black wire it is from that. I'm honestly not 100% sure this power supply actually works. I don't remember what it came out of. It could have been a bad supply I had to replace.

The one linked above, or maybe this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D7CWSCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 will just be a lot easier to use.

I'd say either of those are good choices, I'm debating going to something like that myself. I don't love the idea of having my PSU in the garage sucking up grain dust. For now I just wired a super long cord and I leave the power supply over on the bench.

For anyone that might be curious, my mill seems to be running at 1.5# / minute with the gap set as small as it will go.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

Yes, been a while since I wrote that and had to think about it a little. Doesn't appear that I worded it very clearly, but the green to black tells the psu that it is good to go to power on the motherboard (in our case motor).

When I first saw this post, somehow I missed that it had been started back September 2014. I'm just glad that you guys that did all the work in the beginning are still chiming in to let us know what worked.

 

[BeardedIdiot]

I'd say either of those are good choices, I'm debating going to something like that myself. I don't love the idea of having my PSU in the garage sucking up grain dust. For now I just wired a super long cord and I leave the power supply over on the bench.

For anyone that might be curious, my mill seems to be running at 1.5# / minute with the gap set as small as it will go.

I'm going to try to isolate mine from the dust as much as possible. Not sure exactly how just yet, but probably its own little wooden enclosure on the side of the stand or something.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Quick Update

I milled a full 18# of 2-Row for a large batch of starter wort this weekend and the mill and motor did great. I shot a quick video but will have to upload later.

1. Milling rate held constant at 1.5#/minute
2. The motor had no problem starting with a full 6# in the hopper
3. The PCI-Express jumper wires I used did not heat up at all, even just using the single wire.
4. The motor did heat up noticeably by the end of the third 6# hopper. Not too hot to touch, but definitely hot.
5. Running on the tightest setting there was quite a bit of powder in with the crush, but for BIAB it seemed fine.


Overall I'm thrilled by the build, and glad I made the purchase. It was easy to assemble and meant that I could mill the grain while I was setting up the strike water and getting ready for the brew. Not having to run to the LHBS or wait on mail order every time I brew is amazing. Saving $0.50/pound on grain is just icing on the cake.

 

[Huaco]

Saving $0.50/pound on grain is just icing on the cake.

Thanks for the update! Can you post the photos/video?

WOAH! I worked at my LHBS, Texas Brewing Inc., for a while and we NEVER charged for milling of grain! That's just nuts and at $0.50/pound, its dang-near highway robbery! At that charge, a $300, 3-roller monster mill would be paid for after running only 12 sacks of grain through it!

 

[BeardedBrews]

Thanks for the update! Can you post the photos/video?

WOAH! I worked at my LHBS, Texas Brewing Inc., for a while and we NEVER charged for milling of grain! That's just nuts and at $0.50/pound, its dang-near highway robbery! At that charge, a $300, 3-roller monster mill would be paid for after running only 12 sacks of grain through it!

First, I should clarify, they aren't charging $0.50/pound to mill grain exactly. It's that they mill the grain they sell by the pound ($1.00-$1.25/#) or you can buy an un-milled 55# sack for $37.50 (#0.68/#). It works out a little better when you compare to the mail-order sources and have to pay the $7-8 in shipping.


I'm going to split this into two posts since the website will only let one picture upload direct from an iPhone at a time (they all get called "image.jpg")

First video shows the start of the milling and the timer starting. The next post shows the end of that 6# portion as well as the canned starter I got from the batch.

View attachment trim.B66D7324-74D5-40AB-8ACD-546E83BA8F1A.MOV

 

[BeardedBrews]

Tada

Part 2

View attachment trim.AF6E4BBB-40FB-4835-B384-88038DF8B5F1.MOV

 

[AAAW]

Nice setup.
If your motor burns out, and you want one that won't burn out, we have them available... shown in the post above. We also have the Lovejoy couplers. Happy Brewing!

 

[BeardedBrews]

Nice setup.
If your motor burns out, and you want one that won't burn out, we have them available... shown in the post above. We also have the Lovejoy couplers. Happy Brewing!
https://www.allamericanaleworks.com/gallery/

You've got a really great looking website going, nice design work.

Thanks for the tip, and if (when) my motor burns out I may give you a call.

-B

 

[Tegra]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1460048675.884010.jpg

Here is my ghetto setup....

Old 18V drill, dead battery replaced with cable
12A 5A computer supply (lower voltage runs the drill at just the right speed)
Elastic to hold trigger (actually needs a small block of wood)
Scrap PVC pipe and clamp to backstop drill

With empty pail and full hopper, it needs a bit of manual support for the first couple of minutes, but can then be left to run. I do 20lb grain bills so give it a couple minutes rest between hopper fills (20lb fills the 6 gallon pail)

Motor is running below top voltage and does not seem to get more than slightly warm. I do not expect the motor to last forever but will be sure to come across another scrap drill in the meantime.

T

 

[Huaco]

So, I recently picked up another hobby. HAM Radio. I've got a 2 meter mobile unit that I'm using as a make-shift base station and I picked up a power supply for it.

So, yesterday evening I had the idea to connect the Automotive Seat motor to see how it performed. HOLY CRAP! That thing is torque-loaded! I grabbed the spinning shaft and this thing just simply wouldn't stop. I found it to be VERY strong and also found a burr on the machined groove. HA! I've got little slices all over my thumb and fore-finger. I may simply solder some ring terminals on the wires and bring the power supply to the malt mill when I need to crush grain. There's PLENTY of power in this 20 amp supply!

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'm glad this got bumped up to the top, I have been meaning to provide an update. I had issues on my last two batches that I thought I should report on!

Batch 1 - The grain was milling along fine and then just stopped. I cut power, turned the mill backwards a little, and then restarted. It ran a little and stopped again so I dumped it out. Found several small rocks wedged down into the rollers. DOH! After removal, everything went fine.

Batch 2 - Ran a modified version of Denny's Rye Smile. Tons of Rye and the little motor wanted nothing to do with it. It seemed that as the temperature of the motor rose, the stall force dropped off. If I turned it off and let it cool down again, it would fire back up for a little while, then stall. There were no rocks in this one so I just disconnected the seat motor and drove it with my drill.


I am going to re-evaluate the connection to my power supply at some point. It is likely that I'm not getting the full 25A through to the motor using the PCI-Express wires. I do want to get back to an all-in-one solution, but fortunately the drill is a safe back-up.

 

[Huaco]

Could you wire up a large 12 volt PC fan to turn on and blow across the motor housing to evacuate the heat more rapidly?

If this doesn't work, I've got a Bruno power chair lift that has some massive DC motors on it. I may pull one of those to power my mill.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Could you wire up a large 12 volt PC fan to turn on and blow across the motor housing to evacuate the heat more rapidly?

If this doesn't work, I've got a Bruno power chair lift that has some massive DC motors on it. I may pull one of those to power my mill.

I'm thinking the problem is the seat motor doesn't really have any heat sink built in, just the smooth plastic housing. In the intended use you would never be turning that motor under load for 5-10 minutes so it completely makes sense. I thought about attaching heat sinks from an SSR to the body somehow, but at that point I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

Until I build a dedicated milling bench I think I'll stick with the drill and play around with the seat motor when I have free time. When I upgrade the bench I'll probably upgrade the motor at the same time.

 

[stever1000]

is anyone using this with a barley crusher brand mill? i'm trying to figure out which lovejoy coupling i'll need for the mill side, i think it's a .375 shaft on the mill and the motor shaft is .438 if i'm understanding correctly.

Did you find your answer? I didn't click through all the pages to find out

 

[stever1000]

Is this still the motor everyone is ordering?

https://www.sciplus.com/p/car-seat-312vdc-gear-motor_49248

 

[augiedoggy]

So, I recently picked up another hobby. HAM Radio. I've got a 2 meter mobile unit that I'm using as a make-shift base station and I picked up a power supply for it.

So, yesterday evening I had the idea to connect the Automotive Seat motor to see how it performed. HOLY CRAP! That thing is torque-loaded! I grabbed the spinning shaft and this thing just simply wouldn't stop. I found it to be VERY strong and also found a burr on the machined groove. HA! I've got little slices all over my thumb and fore-finger. I may simply solder some ring terminals on the wires and bring the power supply to the malt mill when I need to crush grain. There's PLENTY of power in this 20 amp supply!

Just another power supply option but I made a variable voltage high amp dc powersupply for my 110v dc motor from a $7 wall dimmer switch and $3 bridge rectifier.... you can use the wall dimmer to adjust to the desired voltage and leave it. Works great for motors but not recommended for electronics unless smoothing capacitors are used. I just google it and found youtube videos and wiring diagrams and folowed that.

 

[stever1000]

Just another power supply option but I made a variable voltage high amp dc powersupply for my 110v dc motor from a $7 wall dimmer switch and $3 bridge rectifier.... you can use the wall dimmer to adjust to the desired voltage and leave it. Works great for motors but not recommended for electronics unless smoothing capacitors are used. I just google it and found youtube videos and wiring diagrams and folowed that.

Do you have a link or pics of what you did?

 

[stever1000]

Is this still the motor everyone is ordering?

https://www.sciplus.com/p/car-seat-312vdc-gear-motor_49248

Itching to do this, my shoulders are tired of 10+ lbs of grain

 

[BeardedBrews]

Is this still the motor everyone is ordering?

https://www.sciplus.com/p/car-seat-312vdc-gear-motor_49248

That's the motor I have, although I have taken a break from it while I decide about a dedicated milling stand.

Do you have a link or pics of what you did?

Unless you already have the bridge rectifier, transformer, wires, and heat sink laying around your work bench waiting to be used, you would be way better off just buying this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IMOS20A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Itching to do this, my shoulders are tired of 10+ lbs of grain

I've been using my cordless drill while I figure out the motor situation. It works fine, great compared to turning the hand crank.

 

[stever1000]

That's the motor I have, although I have taken a break from it while I decide about a dedicated milling stand.



Unless you already have the bridge rectifier, transformer, wires, and heat sink laying around your work bench waiting to be used, you would be way better off just buying this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IMOS20A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



I've been using my cordless drill while I figure out the motor situation. It works fine, great compared to turning the hand crank.

Good info - thanks I will check out the amazon link

 

[eastoak]

Did you find your answer? I didn't click through all the pages to find out

i gave up on this project, stuck with my harbor freight corded drill.

 

[TripleHopped]

i gave up on this project, stuck with my harbor freight corded drill.

Sorry, I saw your original post a little while back and thought you got your information already. The Barley Crusher uses a 3/8 inch shaft to drive the roller, you would need to order a Lovejoy that is .375. I have one that is the L-050 .375 that hooks up to the Barley crusher.

 

[stever1000]

Sorry, I saw your original post a little while back and thought you got your information already. The Barley Crusher uses a 3/8 inch shaft to drive the roller, you would need to order a Lovejoy that is .375. I have one that is the L-050 .375 that hooks up to the Barley crusher.

Excellent, thanks!

 

[BeardedBrews]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IMOS20A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I realized I hadn't come back to this thread since I bought the dedicated power supply. It looks like the loss of power I was having earlier was either due to the gauge of wiring, or a lack of power on the rail I had selected. Switching over to a 30A power supply and proper wiring fixed my problem and I have been happily milling since.

FWIW I crush at the smallest gap possible on the Cereal Killer, and have done as much as 26 lb in a continuous run without having issues.

 

[Brewpastor]

Isn't amazing how complicated DIY can be? I admire the resourceful dedication.

 

[millstone]

BeardedBrews, it has been a couple of years that you started working with the car seat motor and the 30amp power supply. I currently am using a garage door opener motor but have had a few issues with tearing up the nylon gears, so I have considered moving over to the car seat motor. Are you still using the American Science car seat 12vdc gear motor https://www.sciplus.com/car-seat-12vdc-gear-motor-49248-p and the 12V 30Amp power supply https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IMOS20A/?tag=forumyield-20. Is all still good? Any changes? Improvements? Any advise to get me to a working mill motor : )...

Thanks for your help,

Tom

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