Losing crazy amounts of CO2

[30Bones]

So I have had my 15CF keezer for over a year now and have a 4 way manifold inside feeding 5 total kegs/faucets when inventory is going properly. I have a 10# tank and a regulator with 2 "outs". One to feed my manifold, the other to feed my sanitizer keg or transfer PBW and sanitizer from keg to keg.

I had a leak last year. Replaced all the keg seals, rebuilt the manifold. Seemed to fix that with the spary bottle of sanitizer trick. The last couple tanks have only lasted me 3-4 months and the last lasting me less than 2 months. So last week I rebuilt the regulator via teflon tape throughout. Seems to be better, but I am so close to being out of CO2 I am nervous to leave it on 24/7. When the valve is open it's open 100% as I have read a partially open valve can leak??

The cost for exchange here is high I think when going through this much. I am spending nearly $30 a fill. I have an empty 5# and it was only a few bucks less last time I took it in with the 10#. Thoughts are to take both in and get one 20#er, but I want this leak to be solved first.

Only thing left to replace are the lines themselves.

 

[m00ps]

If youve sprayed down the manifold and valves and dont see anything, the only other thing I'd try checking is your kegs. If there is a leak in the line, you would definitely notice it if you crank teh psi close to 30 to check

 

[30Bones]

If youve sprayed down the manifold and valves and dont see anything, the only other thing I'd try checking is your kegs. If there is a leak in the line, you would definitely notice it if you crank teh psi close to 30 to check

Kegs all have new seals, poppets removed and cleaned to boot. I know the kegs aren't the problem anymore.

 

[brewcat]

How much beer are you kegging and dispensing?

 

[jbb3]

How do the gas lines connect to the QD and to the manifold? Swivel nuts or fixed barbs?? If swivel nuts, are you using the nylon washers for each connection?

 

[acidrain]

Are you opening the C02 bottle all the way & bottoming out the valve hard? This is required to keep the packing from leaking at the C02 valve.

Regulators don't require any teflon tape, so if you used it (except at tapered pipe threads) it would be best if you removed it.

The spray soapy water/star san technique doesn't work on high pressure leaks... the tiny jet of high pressure escaping gas simply "blows" the soap away, and you won't see bubbles.

If you really want to know where the leaks are, submerge the entire system under water.

 

[gnef]

At this rate, I would recommend what I do, and disconnect all gas lines and shut off the tank valve when you aren't serving. I don't trust any gas system for the long term. There have been many cases, for myself, and other brewers, where the system is leak free for a year or two, and then develops a leak that you only find because you CO2 tank is empty.

I use 50# tanks, so losing a full tank would be expensive and a pain to get refilled. Even 5# or 10# is a pain as you've found.

 

[zachattack]

Kegs all have new seals, poppets removed and cleaned to boot. I know the kegs aren't the problem anymore.

New seals can certainly leak

Are you lubing the seals? I still leak-check mine every time, I've had brand new post o-rings leak before. PRVs are another common culprit.

 

[30Bones]

How much beer are you kegging and dispensing?

5 kegs max serving at any given time.

How do the gas lines connect to the QD and to the manifold? Swivel nuts or fixed barbs?? If swivel nuts, are you using the nylon washers for each connection?

Combination of both and there are no leaks at any fitting, I tore it all down last year and clean up a lot of lines with zip ties, etc.

Are you opening the C02 bottle all the way & bottoming out the valve hard? This is required to keep the packing from leaking at the C02 valve.

Regulators don't require any teflon tape, so if you used it (except at tapered pipe threads) it would be best if you removed it.

The spray soapy water/star san technique doesn't work on high pressure leaks... the tiny jet of high pressure escaping gas simply "blows" the soap away, and you won't see bubbles.

If you really want to know where the leaks are, submerge the entire system under water.

Yeas valve is all the way open, I stated that in my original post.

Teflon tape was use on the pipe threads only. I never got into the diaphragms since I had no parts to replace them with.

Sounds good, I will fill my keezer with water and dunk it all

New seals can certainly leak

Are you lubing the seals? I still leak-check mine every time, I've had brand new post o-rings leak before. PRVs are another common culprit.

Seals are lubed.

 

[30Bones]

At this rate, I would recommend what I do, and disconnect all gas lines and shut off the tank valve when you aren't serving. I don't trust any gas system for the long term. There have been many cases, for myself, and other brewers, where the system is leak free for a year or two, and then develops a leak that you only find because you CO2 tank is empty.

I use 50# tanks, so losing a full tank would be expensive and a pain to get refilled. Even 5# or 10# is a pain as you've found.

Forgot you in the multi quote. This is where I am at until I get more figured out.

 

[jbb3]

It sounds like you have serviced your keg seals and inspected your connections and not found anything. I'm beginning to think; leaky regulator.

Would your LHBS be willing to lend you to a regulator to test the theory?

 

[82shovel]

Had a similiar problem once. When i first started kegging i was using an older regulator that i had from a cold plate setup from back in the keg party days. Regulator diaghragm had a small tear in it which was allowing the CO2 to escape thru the weep hole

 

[helterscelter]

Sounds good, I will fill my keezer with water and dunk it all

you probably submerge the whole keezer, just to be sure. j/k I have nothing really to contribute here.

 

[30Bones]

It sounds like you have serviced your keg seals and inspected your connections and not found anything. I'm beginning to think; leaky regulator.

Would your LHBS be willing to lend you to a regulator to test the theory?

I can ask if any club members have one laying around they want to let me borrow also.

Had a similiar problem once. When i first started kegging i was using an older regulator that i had from a cold plate setup from back in the keg party days. Regulator diaghragm had a small tear in it which was allowing the CO2 to escape thru the weep hole

Thinking about taking my regulator in to where i get my CO2 refilled and see if they can take a quick look or at least sell the parts. Online a rebuild is only $10 and I'd need two.

 

[acidrain]

Sounds good, I will fill my keezer with water and dunk it all

Don't be an *******... if you've got this all figured out, great, you don't need us.
If not, why not use you're bathtub (sheesh ) and really know for sure what it is.

 

[30Bones]

Don't be an *******... if you've got this all figured out, great, you don't need us.
If not, why not use you're bathtub (sheesh ) and really know for sure what it is.

Who said I was being an *******? Who said I have a bathtub? Kind of hard to tear down a keezer with 5 kegs and give it all a dunk

Thinking it's my regulator. It's a really old Chudnow. Thinking I will replace it with a new Taprite. Will know more once I get my tank refilled.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

If it were my leak I'd open the Co2 valve all the way to pressurize all the lines then close it. The Co2 pressure should begin to drop if there is a leak. Closing off all but one line at a time should make finding the leaking line easier.

If needed close off all of the lines and see if the regulator is leaking. A high pressure leak strong enough to move the soap solution out of the way should also be easy to hear. Either way I'd try everything before plunking down the ca$h to buy a new regulator, unless I knew for sure that would resolve the leak.

 

[30Bones]

If it were my leak I'd open the Co2 valve all the way to pressurize all the lines then close it. The Co2 pressure should begin to drop if there is a leak. Closing off all but one line at a time should make finding the leaking line easier.

If needed close off all of the lines and see if the regulator is leaking. A high pressure leak strong enough to move the soap solution out of the way should also be easy to hear. Either way I'd try everything before plunking down the ca$h to buy a new regulator, unless I knew for sure that would resolve the leak.

That's plan....whatever number I am on by now. I am sure I have tried that before to no avail.

Not buying a new reg until I know it's a potential problem. I can get a taprite for $40 so it's not crazy spendy.

 

[30Bones]

As of today I am calling this a win. Full tank has been online for over a week with all valves open and no leaks.

I tore down my dual pressure regulator down to the diaphragms and one seemed to be not sealing well. So for now I took that regulator off and it's now just a single pressure regulator. I have 2 spare regulators I plan to possibly make it a double at some point.

I also bought a $7 scale to set my 20# steel tank on. Full it weighs just over 50# so I have something more concrete to base this on over the gauge which is marginal at best (I will plug this when I build a dual pressure reg someday) . Can't find a weight on an empty 20# steel tank, so if anyone can weigh theirs I would appreciate it. Guessing 25-30#

 

[IslandLizard]

The actual Tare of an empty is immaterial. You've got stuff attached to it.

If you just had your tank filled/topped off, it should contain 20# of CO2 give or take a pound. When it's empty, weigh it with all your regulator equipment, valves, and hoses attached, as it normally would be. That's your new Tare base.

As it is, your Tare base is what it weights on the scale, minus 20# (estimated CO2 content).

There should be a Tare weight stamped into the cylinder, though. Usually a T with a number like 26.7.
Not sure if that includes the valve and handle.

 

[30Bones]

Not concerned about it being dead nuts. A regulator doesn't weigh enough to throw this off the rails.