Looking for the perfect mash temperatures

[O-Ale-Yeah]

I just brewed my 5th brew so now I'm making plans for my 6th.

I see that 122F to 138F activates proteinase to convert protein,
130F - 150F activates beta amylase, &
150F - 160F activates alfa amylase.

I know there are many other variables that affect body and the sweetness perception, but simply in relation to temperature only, is it correct that if I stay above 138F I would preserve protein resulting in a fuller bodied beer? And this protein preservation wouldn't increase sweetness correct? So to brew a fuller bodied, non-sweet beer, I would mash at 140F for 30 minutes and 155F for 30 minutes?

 

[Smellyglove]

Proteins also lead to haze. But you are correct, proteins in beer gives a fuller mouthfeel. But I feel like you just discovered that proteins gives a fuller beer, and you're chasing that end..

58C is pretty low for a saccharification temperature. I'd bump that to 63C, at least. But when operating at the lower temps of saccharification you also need to know that the malt you're using will galatinize at that temperature, 58C is pretty low, it might, or might not gelatinize.

Full body - non sweet is not just about the temperatures, it's also about the yeast and other factors. Some strains gives out more glycerol than others, giving it a more full body, while still being low FG, water additions etc etc, variables..

Id rather try do do a hochkurz and see where you end up.

 

[Smellyglove]

I see that you're the same person asking about BUGU, which I also answered.

When adding in that thread.. Since you're on your fifth brew. I'd try to keep it simple. Mash at 65C for 60-90 minutes. Voila. Balance. Don't use to much crystal/cara malts, try with 6%, unless you're cloning or doing a kit.

 

[O-Ale-Yeah]

The only issue with haze is that it's not pretty correct?

I learned of this protein breakdown at lower temperatures today. Unfortunately I mashed at 132F, 140F, and 150F yesterday. I probably broke down all of my protein didn't I?

 

[Smellyglove]

The only issue with haze is that it's not pretty correct?

I learned of this protein breakdown at lower temperatures today. Unfortunately I mashed at 132F, 140F, and 150F yesterday. I probably broke down all of my protein didn't I?

Haze can be pretty correct for certain styles. I love haze, unless I'm brewing a style where it's way off to have haze.

That mash regime would yield a pretty thin beer, if one thinks about just the mashing. But also, it depends on the malt. If it's undermodified it's not as bad as well modified malt, those mashing temps.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

When adding in that thread.. Since you're on your fifth brew. I'd try to keep it simple. Mash at 65C for 60-90 minutes. Voila. Balance. Don't use to much crystal/cara malts, try with 6%, unless you're cloning or doing a kit.

I would agree with this. When I started all-grain (back in 1995) I did a protein rest at 125F...because that is what Dave Miller's book said to do (and it may have been a good idea at the time). At some point I stopped and I cannot recall the last time I did a multi-step mash. Maybe I am missing out on something and I should experiment with adding in a protein rest. John Palmer only recommends a protein rest if using 20% or more unmalted wheat, rye or oats. Given the high amounts of protein and FAN in modern American malts, I cannot see a protein rest doing anything positive for a typical beer.

Is there a source that points to a protein rest improving the body of a beer? I have not heard this, but I am not very knowledgeable about this topic.

Given that several Brulosophy experiments show that people have a hard time identifying beers with very different mash temps, I expect you (and I) could mash every beer at 152F for 60 min with no real impact. There are a lot of factors that are much more important than a few degrees of mash temp.

 

[mongoose33]

Modern malts are well-modified. There's generally no reason for a rest. 60 minutes or more in the 150-degree range will be fine for most beers.

 

[Smellyglove]

Given that several Brulosophy experiments show that people have a hard time identifying beers with very different mash temps, I expect you (and I) could mash every beer at 152F for 60 min with no real impact. There are a lot of factors that are much more important than a few degrees of mash temp.

If you brew the same beer over and over again, I bet you would notice a difference.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

If you brew the same beer over and over again, I bet you would notice a difference.

I have an experimental Porter on tap right now that was mashed at 162F. OG was 1.052 and the FG was 1.030. It is far from the thick sweet motor oil you would expect from what I have read in my brewing books...it actually leans toward thin and dry since it is around 3% ABV. I hope to do some specific experiments myself with different mash temps, but I know enough now that I chuckle inside when people say they can tell the difference between a 152F beer and a 154F beer.

Mash temp does have a clear impact on ABV of a beer. I do think it make sense to use different mash temps to drive the character of your beer. If you want a 7% Belgian beer with a light body, then build your recipe around a low mash temp driving higher attenuation.

As far as the OP goes (around 5 batches of experience), I feel like he is trying to solve one of those "I keep making it to the second round in the national comp, but not placing" problems. Unless you are brewing a specific style of beer or really trying to fine tune a specific aspect of a beer, I cannot see where the complexity of protein rests and multiple mash temps should be on the priority list for a new brewer.

 

[mongoose33]

As far as the OP goes (around 5 batches of experience), I feel like he is trying to solve one of those "I keep making it to the second round in the national comp, but not placing" problems. Unless you are brewing a specific style of beer or really trying to fine tune a specific aspect of a beer, I cannot see where the complexity of protein rests and multiple mash temps should be on the priority list for a new brewer.

I agree....there are a lot of places to improve, including getting the water right, fermentation temp control, yeast, mash, and so on. Process is everything, and I give OP credit for focusing on that, not recipe.

He should be focusing, IMO, on beer that tastes good to him, looking for off-flavors and nailing down their source.

I'm also a believer that new brewers should focus on relatively simple recipes and work to nail down the process. Brew the same thing 2 or 3 times, looking to get it right. Once that is done, then it's time to spread the wings a bit.

My 2 cents.

 

[OnePlate]

I agree....there are a lot of places to improve, including getting the water right, fermentation temp control, yeast, mash, and so on. Process is everything, and I give OP credit for focusing on that, not recipe.

He should be focusing, IMO, on beer that tastes good to him, looking for off-flavors and nailing down their source.

I'm also a believer that new brewers should focus on relatively simple recipes and work to nail down the process. Brew the same thing 2 or 3 times, looking to get it right. Once that is done, then it's time to spread the wings a bit.

My 2 cents.

As a new (and increasingly successful) brewer, I can't agree more. It's easy to fall deep down the rabbit hole of advanced brewing techniques and such and make drinkable but not lovable beer. Once I started nailing down the fundamentals I began preferring my own beer over what I used to buy.

In the years ahead there will be plenty of time for step mashing, decoction mashing, and everything under the sun that isn't single infusion mashing. For now, keep it simple, make something that tastes amazing using the basic techniques and expand from there.