Looking for help on my first AG stout recipe...

[freddyb]

I'm planning on brewing a stout next and I'm going through my specialty grains bin and my hops stash in the fridge trying to come up with something tasty. I've yet to formulate an original stout recipe and I'm looking for some pointers.

Here are the ingredients I have readily available:

Here's a recipe that I threw together in beersmith. I'm going for an American Stout on the strong end of the scale.

Style: American Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 8.53 gal
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 57.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 47.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
12.75 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Weyermann (3.3 SRM)Grain 71.91 %
1.00 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.64 %
1.00 lb Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.64 %
0.88 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.96 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 4.23 %
0.72 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 4.06 %
0.63 lb Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 3.55 %
1.00 oz Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) Hops 29.8 IBU
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, B.C. [4.50 %] (2 min) Hops 1.0 IBU

Mash at 154* for 60 minutes and double batch sparge. I don't want it to pour like motor oil so maybe I should mash lower?

Ferment with S-04 at 68*. Hoping to finish around 1.015 or so.


If there are obvious grain omissions (roasted barley?) in the recipe or the percentages look off, I'll tweak it accordingly. Too much black patent malt? Add some of the Crystal 20 for more sweetness? Too light or heavy on the flavor/aroma hops? Too many IBUs? Bitterness ratio is 0.65 IBU/SG.

Any tips would be much appreciated.

 

[Bob]

I'm going for an American Stout on the strong end of the scale.

Okay, let's see what we can do here. Here's my modified recipe, explanations to follow.

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Weyermann (3.3 SRM)Grain 73.9%
1.00 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 7.8%
1.00 lb Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.8%
0.72 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 5.6%
0.63 lb Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.9%
1.00 oz Chinook [11.40 %] (60 min) 43.9 Hops IBU

First, I think your mash is a bit too complicated. There's an awful lot going on there. Your proposed grist has, in the Crystal, an awful lot of body-enhancing sweet stuff. I don't like caramel/crystal sweetness in a stout, and 3/4 lb of 120L would have been too much. Plus, the flaked barley will add body. Duplication of effort is overcomplication. I don't like Black Patent in Stout, especially in proportions exceeding the Roasted Barley (that's the Black Barley). Black Patent has an acrid, burnt, ashy flavor if used in excess.

Second, your OG is higher than I'd like. I see stout as a sessionable beer. The removal of the Crystal and Black Patent helped. I reduced the Pale Malt to 9.5 lbs. That should give a more sessionable OG of ~1.055.

Third, too complicated on the hops profile. While the style sheet says hops flavor is okay, I think it gets in the way of the other flavors. You need a firm hops bitterness working in harmony with the roasted-grain bitterness, and that's about it.

American Stout is a fairly wide-open style, for all that. That's not an excuse for "kitchen sink" beers, though!

Now, for mashing. If you're fermenting with S04, mash low, no higher than 150. S04 has a tendency to underattenuate as compared to S05 or Nottingham. It's not Windsor, but it's less attenuative. You want a stout to finish dry. The roasted grains will help that, as will the crispness from the rye. I generally see 68-70% attenuation from S04. With an OG of 1055, that means a FG of between 1016 and 1018. You might see 1015 if you mash low and slow.

If you insist on making it stronger, use a more attenuative yeast or it'll end up motor oil no matter what you do.

Hope this helps! I gotta go cut my grass.*

Cheers!

Bob

P.S. I wish my grass was emo. Then it'd cut itself.

 

[Bob]

Dammit. Wrong button.

 

[michael.berta]

+ 1 on everything that NQ3X said. If you want a 1074 wort to finish as a 1015 beer you are going to need yeast that will attenuate to about 80%. I'd strongly suggest a more attenuative yeast (I prefer Nottingham).

 

[jescholler]

I'm not familiar with the style, but Jamil Zainasheff and Jon Plise are. Listen to the Jamil show podcast below, and they'll tell you everything you need to know.
The Brewing Network.com - :

After listening to a few of these episodes, I won't brew a style without listening to the show first.

Good luck.

 

[freddyb]

Thanks for the recipe tips. I'm going to scale things back to your suggestions. If there are any other ingredients you'd add or change, let me know. Anything preventing this from being an awesome stout? I have time to run to the LHBS before brew day.

 

[freddyb]

Listen to the Jamil show podcast below, and they'll tell you everything you need to know.
The Brewing Network.com - :

Excellent, thanks!

 

[Malticulous]

That's going to be pretty dry NQ3X. I prefer half way to the sweet side with some oats--like a lb Caramel 60-80 and a lb of quick oats.

 

[EdWort]

If you want a Fusion beer, my Robust Porter recipe is a big beer, and I call it a Storter sometimes. It's big and tasty. Not something you drink pints of, but rather you call it a night with it.

It makes a nice nightcap.

 

[KYB]

I'm not familiar with the style, but Jamil Zainasheff and Jon Plise are. Listen to the Jamil show podcast below, and they'll tell you everything you need to know.
The Brewing Network.com - :

After listening to a few of these episodes, I won't brew a style without listening to the show first.

Good luck.

I'm not putting them or their show down at all, but I listened to the show on Foreign Extra Stout and I got nothing out of it. Basically, they read the recipe from the book, talked about different Crystal malts, and said the recipe was kind of in the middle of the Export and Tropical versions, and mentioned the BJCP guidelines I'm pretty sure. I'm going to check out the American Stout one, maybe that will be better. I guess I just had higher expectations, or maybe that show just wasn't a good one.

 

[jescholler]

I actually haven't listened to the American Stout episode, but I've listened to about half a dozen others. I've always felt that I could brew the style after listening to the episodes though. You are right, they do go over the BJCP guidelines, which you could get on your own. What I find handy are the mash/fermentation techniques and how they affect the style. I also like when they talk about common pitfalls associated with the style. Hopefully you'll like their other shows more.

 

[freddyb]

I listened to the American Stout show and I enjoyed it. The example recipe they described was big on OG (1.072) and big on IBUs (73) to match. I'm going to go with a lower OG as NQ3X suggested in his recipe. Perhaps something in between (~1.060's) and switch to US-05 or Nottingham to get better attenuation as suggested by NQ3X and the Jamil show. They also add sweetness to the recipe with 3/4lb. of Crystal 40.

I'll play around with my recipe and update the thread after brew day.

Thanks for the suggestions, y'all!

 

[Bob]

That's going to be pretty dry NQ3X. I prefer half way to the sweet side with some oats--like a lb Caramel 60-80 and a lb of quick oats.

There you go - to each his own! I prefer a dry stout, whether it's technically American or Irish. I've been known to throw in some crystal (the stout in my dropdown uses crystal), but more for body than flavor or sweetness.

A dry finish makes me want more. A sweet finish satiates.

Cheers!

Bob