Local Spring Water Report

[MerlinWerks]

Hi All,

Looking to getting back to brewing after a very long layoff. I want to use the water from a local spring and i've sent it off to WL for analysis.

Here are the results:


pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 50
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.08
Cations / Anions, me/L. 0.6/0.7
Sodium, Na. 2
Potassium, K. <1
Calcium, Ca 7
Magnesium, Mg. 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 26
Nitrate, NO3-N. 0.1 (safe)
Sulfate, SO4-S 6
Chloride, Cl 3
Carbonate, CO3 <1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 14
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 11
Total Phosphorus, P <0.1
Total Iron, Fe. <0.1

Other than some possible variability because it's a spring, does anyone see any gotchas or have any recommendations?

Thanks

 

[ajdelange]

Treat it as if it were RO water (keeping in mind that the sulfate is a bit high).

 

[MerlinWerks]

Thanks AJ

Isn't the bicarbonate a bit high as well?

Thanks

 

[ajdelange]

No. We look at alkalinity, not bicarbonate (though, of course, they are related) and the alkalinity here is only 11 which is very low.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Thanks again

I was comparing it to the sample RO profile on the Bru'n Water "water knowledge" page which I suppose would show how closely it matches RO water and not much else.

 

[ajdelange]

There's RO water and there's RO water. What one finds in his RO water depends on his system, how well maintained (or new) it is and the profile of his feed water. A 'typical' profile for RO water is not really very useful. All ions should be low. TDS is probably a more reasonable thing to publish but I wouldn't even know what to say for that given the reasons above. < 10 or < 20 as NaCl perhaps.

 

[StMarcos]

Looks pretty light in all fields to me. Pretty much snowmelt.

 

[MerlinWerks]

You mean like "Rocky Mountain Spring Water"

Coors better beware...:cross:

 

[MerlinWerks]

Treat it as if it were RO water (keeping in mind that the sulfate is a bit high).

I've brewed nine 5g batches with this water so far. I've just used the basic recommendations in the primer, calcium chloride and acidulated malt.
I've made all ales and have been able to drink from four of them so far, two blondes, an irish red and an APA. I've pretty much hit all the expected numbers for the recipes, the blondes were mashed around 150f and the other two around 154f/156f.

They all have been drinkable, but they all have kind of a dryness to them in the finish, perhaps a bit mineral as well. Could this be a result of the sulfates being out of balance/too high?

Or did you simply mean that sulfate as reported is high relative to RO water and would still be considered relatively low in the context of a 5 gallon batch.

 

[ajdelange]

Neither sulfate or other mineral content is high enough to explain either dryness or a mineral taste. The conversion temperatures of 150 - 156 °F should result in a fair proportion of long chain sugars. The extra chloride should also add some body and sweetness. Sometimes brewing is just a mystery. Try checking mash pH.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Thanks AJ

Mash Ph for the first four batches:

5.26 Irish Red
5.45 Blonde
5.45 Blonde
5.17 APA

Measured with an Omega Probe, calibrated each time, sample @ buffer temps.

A couple of "firsts" going on here since I last brewed, 17 years ago. New process with BIAB and first time using dry yeast, Notty, Safale 04/05. Fermentation temps are controlled as well. The beer is certainly drinkable, just starting to look down the road towards refining it a bit. Yesterday after I had one of my APAs I tried an Abita Jockamo IPA and the mouthfeel on it was softer and fuller no dryness in the end.

In the primer, you suggest the calcium chloride @ 1 tsp/5 gal, what would suggest as a weight? Something like 5g/5 gal

 

[ajdelange]

Those pH numbers all look good though the Irish and the APA are a bit on the low side. Any correlation with taste there?

Yes, 1 gram/gal is what I had in mind. I'd certainly readily suggest experimenting with half that amount probably as a starting point if I had it to do again. Working up just seems more sensible than the other way round.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Still trying to work through this tart/dryness that haunts nearly all my beers. I have switched to store bought RO and add small amounts of calcium chloride and gypsum as the only salt additions and I also use acid malt or lactic acid as required. I cross check through a couple of the available water calculators and their predicted pH are generally within a tenth or so of what I measure. The salts are generally <5g each into the mash water which is typically in the 8 - 9 gallon range, I do BIAB and mash with with full volume. To be clear all of these beers have been drinkable and I have made a few batches that turned out really well and did not have this tartness to them, although I cannot see any obvious reason for the difference.

Last night I did some experimenting by adding a pinch of baking soda to the glass before filling and that made a positive improvement in most of the beers I tried it with. It did not magically turn them into outstanding brews but it did get rid of the tartness and made them more pleasurable to drink. Although if I was a little heavy on the baking soda I could detect that and that taste is not pleasant either.

Does the baking soda experiment offer any clues as to what I might need to change to get rid of this tart/dryness in my beer? Perhaps up the overall mineral content in general (CaCl2/CaSo4) maybe get the sodium content >1?

FWIW, to try to define the off taste a bit better, although not exactly the same or as intense it is in part similar to an OJ/toothpaste combo and shows up in the finish. I suppose twangy is another way to describe it.

Thanks

 

[ajdelange]

The baking soda test suggests that the finished beer is too acidic for your taste. Check the pH of the finished beer. Try a yeast strain that produces less acid. Back off on the sulfate and then do the taste tests with sulfate to see how much you like.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Here are few examples:

Smoked Porter

RO vol. 8.7 gal
CaCl2 4.4g
CaSO4 2g

Mash Ph 5.14 added 6g chalk > 5.48
Beer Ph 4.52
Yeast Safale SO4

IPA 1

RO vol. 8.44 gal
CaCl2 2.5g
CaSO4 4.2g

Mash Ph 5.36
Beer Ph 4.5
Yeast Safale SO4

Irish Red

RO Vol 8.5 gal
5 g CaCl2

mash Ph 5.17
Beer Ph 4.21
Yeast Safale SO5

IPA 2

RO Vol 8.9 gal
CaCl2 3.6g
CaSO4 4.5g

Mash Ph 5.65 added 2.5 ml lactic > 5.43
Beer Ph 4.5
Yeast Safale SO5

Nut Brown

RO Vol 8.34 gal
CaCl2 3.3g
CaSO4 4.2g

Mash pH 5.54 added 1.5 ml LA >5.42
Beer pH 4.22
Yeast Siebel BRY-264 (slurry from local brewery)

I have an APA in the fermentor with WY 1056.

The two best tasting are the IPA's, don't really notice any twang in these, they are both significantly higher gravity/IBU than the others and yes they both have a higher finish pH than the others. FWIW, other people taste the twang as well and most felt that IPA 1 was a really good beer.

I probably should note that the twangy beers also tend to be rather bland. Most notably with the smoked porter and an oatmeal stout, on the first sip you taste the smokiness and roastiness respectively and I get none of that on subsequent sips, unless I'm eating something as well.

 

[trentm]

New process with BIAB

Although I have not used the BIAB method, I have read a lot of posts concerned about astringency with this method being a common relation. Now I know a lot of BIAB brewers are getting great results but perhaps some part of the process can lead to astringency. Perhaps if too many wort solids make it into the kettle.

 

[MerlinWerks]

I've been looking at that aspect as well, there appears to be much more flour/trub in the kettle, but many claim that is not an issue. I've changed from double milling my grains (JSP fixed MaltMill .043" gap) to a single crush. And also not stirring as often or adding supplemental heat to the mash. Going to see if I can accomplish some type of vorlauf on the next brew. The only discernable difference the above changes have made so far is a loss of mash efficiency

 

[trentm]

To paraphrase someone: Not an issue is the worst enemy of perfection. Good luck, I am sure you will get the process dialed in.

 

[MerlinWerks]

I hear ya

May have to break out my old mash tun and go 3V for a batch...