Last Kit --- I Promise!

[GHBWNY]

I've recently been making the transition from extract kit to PM/BIAB recipes, and it's like I've been set free! However, I have one last kit in storage from several months ago, a Brewer's Best Belgian Tripel. As an already fairly complex brew, I'm wondering if there is something I could/should attempt do to embellish/improve upon it --- you know, kinda put my own spin on it --- without stepping too far outside of the intended style. While I'm fairly certain this will be my last kit brew, I don't want to sacrifice 5 gal. of potentially good beer for the sake of making "better" beer.

 

[Calypso]

Well, I would pay close attention to the yeast provided. Use a calculator (http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/) to determine the viability. You'll also probably want to buy a second sachet if the kit only includes one. As for making a modification to give it your own spin, maybe you could do a rose hip infusion. I think that would go with the flavors of a Belgian tripel well.

 

[mcbar]

See if you can get your hands on some Wyeast 3864. You could try adding or substituting a bit of wheat DME. You might also play around with some orange peel or coriander.

Good luck!

 

[JordanKnudson]

I've recently been making the transition from extract kit to PM/BIAB recipes, and it's like I've been set free! However, I have one last kit in storage from several months ago, a Brewer's Best Belgian Tripel. As an already fairly complex brew, I'm wondering if there is something I could/should attempt do to embellish/improve upon it --- you know, kinda put my own spin on it --- without stepping too far outside of the intended style. While I'm fairly certain this will be my last kit brew, I don't want to sacrifice 5 gal. of potentially good beer for the sake of making "better" beer.

Keep in mind that while a Tripel is complex in flavor, it's not actually a complex recipe. The malt bill is usually very simple (something around 90% pilsner, 10% plain sugar) and the hops are low to moderate, using varieties like Styrian Goldings or Saaz. It's the yeast that is meant to be the star in this beer, so my advice is that, rather than gild the lily by adding extra ingredients, focus all of your efforts on your yeast handling (viability, pitching rates, fermentation temperatures). That is how you are going to get a really great Tripel out of your kit.

 

[GHBWNY]

Keep in mind that while a Tripel is complex in flavor, it's not actually a complex recipe. The malt bill is usually very simple (something around 90% pilsner, 10% plain sugar) and the hops are low to moderate, using varieties like Styrian Goldings or Saaz. It's the yeast that is meant to be the star in this beer, so my advice is that, rather than gild the lily by adding extra ingredients, focus all of your efforts on your yeast handling (viability, pitching rates, fermentation temperatures). That is how you are going to get a really great Tripel out of your kit.

Thanks for the advice. Did the kit straight up. It had 4 oz. of "aromatic"(?) steeping grains. 6.6 lb. light (unhopped) LME, 3 lb. Pilsen DME, 1 lb. candi. Hops were Northern Brewer (@ 50 min), E. Kent Golding (@ 5 min). Treating the yeast as best as I'm able. Pitched the S-33 that came with it. Apparently, it has a high-alcohol tolerance (OG was 1.084). Although I normally rehydrate, instructions were emphatic about pitching dry, so that's what I did. Went from full boil to 68F in ~20 min., pitched, aerated well, ferming in water bath @ 65F.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Thanks for the advice. Did the kit straight up. It had 4 oz. of "aromatic"(?) steeping grains. 6.6 lb. light (unhopped) LME, 3 lb. Pilsen DME, 1 lb. candi. Hops were Northern Brewer (@ 50 min), E. Kent Golding (@ 5 min). Treating the yeast as best as I'm able. Pitched the S-33 that came with it. Apparently, it has a high-alcohol tolerance (OG was 1.084). Although I normally rehydrate, instructions were emphatic about pitching dry, so that's what I did. Went from full boil to 68F in ~20 min., pitched, aerated well, ferming in water bath @ 65F.

That all looks pretty good. I *would* suggest in the future to always rehydrate your dry yeast. Kits tend to give process instructions aimed at ease-of-use, not necessarily best practices. The idea behind that is to simplify brewing as much as possible so that new brewers don't feel intimidated by any extra steps, even if those extra steps would make small (or occasionally large) improvements to the final product.

In the case of dry yeast, the yeast need to draw water across their cell membranes to rehydrate themselves before going to work. The higher the concentration of sugars (as it is in a high gravity wort), the more difficult it is for them to do that, which can result in diminished performance. Hence the extra step of rehydrating in water first, where there is no sugar to interfere. Nonetheless, I'm sure you will be okay. If it doesn't seem to be going as you'd hoped, you might consider pitching some extra yeast. If you do that, consider adding a liquid Belgian strain, as S-33 seems like an odd choice in a Tripel -- I seem to remember that being an English strain, but maybe I'm confused.

Finally, to answer your question mark on aromatic malt, that is there to enhance the malty quality of the beer. It adds some very nice melanoiden characteristics that will drive a maltier flavor without interfering with the dry finish created by the sugar/high attenuation.

 

[kh54s10]

When I started transitioning from kits to my own recipes I would start from a known recipe and make some small substitutions. Maybe switch from a Brown malt to a chocolate malt. Something similar. I would also change up hops or change the addition schedule. I am not much for spiced beers so have used very little in that respect. I currently have a wheat beer on tap that used fresh orange peel and coriander. It is not fully carbonated yet but tastes great.

Another way to change things is to change up the yeast. I read the flavor profile the yeast imparts and decide if that is something I want in a particular beer.

 

[GHBWNY]

That all looks pretty good. I *would* suggest in the future to always rehydrate your dry yeast. Kits tend to give process instructions aimed at ease-of-use, not necessarily best practices. The idea behind that is to simplify brewing as much as possible so that new brewers don't feel intimidated by any extra steps, even if those extra steps would make small (or occasionally large) improvements to the final product.

In the case of dry yeast, the yeast need to draw water across their cell membranes to rehydrate themselves before going to work. The higher the concentration of sugars (as it is in a high gravity wort), the more difficult it is for them to do that, which can result in diminished performance. Hence the extra step of rehydrating in water first, where there is no sugar to interfere. Nonetheless, I'm sure you will be okay. If it doesn't seem to be going as you'd hoped, you might consider pitching some extra yeast. If you do that, consider adding a liquid Belgian strain, as S-33 seems like an odd choice in a Tripel -- I seem to remember that being an English strain, but maybe I'm confused.

I get the rehydration concept and why. I've come to understand that happy yeast = happy beer. I should have seen through the "don't rehydrate" edict and gone with my gut. However, I acquiesced in lieu of the kit company knowing more about brewing than I do, even if it was only because they want repeat customers who are "successful" in their endeavors. As noted, "success" is not always equivalent to best results. I always rehydrate, and I may regret not having done that, suspecting at the very least, a slow lag time/low attenuation and likelihood of re-pitching in a week or so. If I do, it will be with a Belgian strain (liquid).

Thanks everyone for the heads-up and encouragement. Stay tuned.

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to cutting the kits loose, you'll love the freedom!

As you just experienced, many kit instructions are bound to cause more problems than preventing them. Really, how hard is it to re-hydrate yeast properly? The better more up-to-date kits actually do include instructions on re-hydration. Also, the whole secondary after x (yeah, single digits) days is so unnecessary and usually plain wrong. Placing the fermentor in a "warm place" is usually not good for a beer's flavor either.

If you need to repitch at later time, which you probably and hopefully don't need to do, it should be done with a large starter at high krausen. Otherwise repitching yeast will have no effect. What you do need to watch out for is that your beer doesn't spoil sitting idle for a week. So keep a close eye on the progress and if it doesn't do anything after a day, or 2 at the most, confirmed with a hydrometer sample, a properly re-hydrated repitch of S-33 will be the best and quickest to do.

S-33 is a high alcohol tolerant yeast and although not the prime choice for a Triple, it will make fine beer and should attenuate well. You could feed the fermentor some sugar (~1 pound) after the primary fermentation has come to an end to boost alcohol and dry it out a bit. Extract beers tend to stay a bit sweet (higher FG than expected). At the end of the primary fermentation (and after the extra sugar has been consumed) you can raise the temp slowly to 70-75 and leave it there for 2-3 weeks to finish out.

Just keep your sanitation standards high when tinkering with beer, which you should keep to an absolute minimum anyway, and watch out for unintended oxidation. Don't rack if there is no good reason for it.

 

[GHBWNY]

Welcome to cutting the kits loose, you'll love the freedom!

As you just experienced, many kit instructions are bound to cause more problems than preventing them. Really, how hard is it to re-hydrate yeast properly? The better more up-to-date kits actually do include instructions on re-hydration. Also, the whole secondary after x (yeah, single digits) days is so unnecessary and usually plain wrong. Placing the fermentor in a "warm place" is usually not good for a beer's flavor either.

If you need to repitch at later time, which you probably and hopefully don't need to do, it should be done with a large starter at high krausen. Otherwise repitching yeast will have no effect. What you do need to watch out for is that your beer doesn't spoil sitting idle for a week. So keep a close eye on the progress and if it doesn't do anything after a day, or 2 at the most, confirmed with a hydrometer sample, a properly re-hydrated repitch of S-33 will be the best and quickest to do.

S-33 is a high alcohol tolerant yeast and although not the prime choice for a Triple, it will make fine beer and should attenuate well. You could feed the fermentor some sugar (~1 pound) after the primary fermentation has come to an end to boost alcohol and dry it out a bit. Extract beers tend to stay a bit sweet (higher FG than expected). At the end of the primary fermentation (and after the extra sugar has been consumed) you can raise the temp slowly to 70-75 and leave it there for 2-3 weeks to finish out.

Just keep your sanitation standards high when tinkering with beer, which you should keep to an absolute minimum anyway, and watch out for unintended oxidation. Don't rack if there is no good reason for it.

Fermentation took right off after about 12 hrs. (didn't hurt to have given it a healthy 30-sec. sloshing after pitching the S-33). Fermenter's bubbling away happily in its water bath at 64.5F amb.

While I certainly appreciate the *concept* of rehydrating the yeast in water before pitching, I wonder if it's really as critical as it's purported to be. Afterall, my dry yeast took off in the same amount of time any rehydrated yeast I have used has, and apparently is doing as fine as yeast can do. Think about it: if a few minutes of exposing yeast to water "readies" the cells for sugar consumption (attenuation), doesn't exposure to ANY water-based liquid --- regardless of other ingredients --- have pretty much the same basic effect? And since the yeast theoretically aren't able to assimilate the sugars in the wort until AFTER they have been exposed to water, then how can the presence of sugars be detrimental to the initial stages of attenuation? IOW, how can sugar stall the yeast's attenuation if any effect by the sugar isn't evident until after the yeast are able to absorb sugar?

 

[IslandLizard]

You're just lucky!
[1.044] Oops: 1.084 that is... is high gravity, [not that high a gravity and] there's a significant surplus of cells in the dry packages, the more so when fresher.

Crank it up to 1.070 or 1.080 (you did) and you may see an entirely different behavior. And it may never attenuate fully. (Well we'll see)

All dry yeast manufacturers have detailed instructions on properly re-hydrating their dry yeasts and recommend that over dry pitching. Even adding a bit of sugar to the water to "proof" the yeast (as is often done with bread yeast) is proven to be counteractive, at least for brewers yeast.

There are many threads and articles on that topic, not just here.

 

[mcbar]

Maybe whoever put the kit together was hoping to increase ester production?

It might be the case that rehydrating dry yeast isn't as important as it's often been made out to be (see here), but it's so easy that I'll continue to do it.

 

[GHBWNY]

Maybe whoever put the kit together was hoping to increase ester production?

It might be the case that rehydrating dry yeast isn't as important as it's often been made out to be (see here), but it's so easy that I'll continue to do it.

And so will I.

 

[GHBWNY]

You're just lucky!
1.044 is not that high a gravity... Crank it up to 1.070 or 1.080 and you may see an entirely different behavior.

OG was 1.084, which is why I am surprised ferm took off so quick.

 

[IslandLizard]

OG was 1.084, which is why I am surprised ferm took off so quick.

Yeah, I got the wrong number, sorry. Made an amendment to what I wrote before.
Glad it took off like a rocket. Must be some potent yeast, have to keep that in mind.

Don't forget to raise the temp a bit toward the end of the fermentation to prevent it stalling out while enabling it to condition out better.

 

[GHBWNY]

Yeah, I got the wrong number, sorry. Made an amendment to what I wrote before.
Glad it took off like a rocket. Must be some potent yeast, have to keep that in mind.

Don't forget to raise the temp a bit toward the end of the fermentation to prevent it stalling out while enabling it to condition out better.

Definitely, thanks!

 

[GHBWNY]

Help!

Started ferm in a water bath @ 64F 7 days ago. Took off very vigorously. Held it at that temp for 4 days. Then things got very quiet. Zero airlock activity. I didn't think it was done, so I moved it to a slightly warmer spot and gave it a very gentle slosh, not enough to cause oxidation. It's day 3 @ ~69F amb. and still no apparent activity. I took an FG reading this AM: 1.023. Target FG is 1.014-16, so I'm still not in the ballpark (at least according to the instructions). I had the LHBS order some more S-33. It will be in tomorrow night and prior to re-pitching, I'll take another FG reading. If FG hasn't dropped, I guess I have two considerations: either it is done, or it is stalled. I find it hard to believe it's done in such a short time, but if it's stalled, I want to get it going again ASAP. How do I tell the difference? Would arbitrarily re-pitching even if it really is done do any harm? Thanks.

 

[IslandLizard]

Help!

The dreaded 20's...

It obviously needs more time. Keep it warm and check progress after a week or longer. You can crank it up, slowly, to 75 or even 80 degrees if you must. A careful rousing each day may be helpful. Don't remove (bucket) lids, the CO2 in the headspace protects your beer.

Please reread all the posts that were made in this thread. Particularly this one.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I had the LHBS order some more S-33. It will be in tomorrow night and prior to re-pitching, I'll take another FG reading. If FG hasn't dropped, I guess I have two considerations: it's done, or is it stalled. I find it hard to believe it's done is such a short time, but if it's stalled, I want to get it going again ASAP. How do I tell the difference? Would arbitrarily re-pitching even if it really is done do any harm? Thanks.

If it is done, pitching more yeast really won't hurt it. If it is stalled, this is probably the most effective way to get it going again. However, you won't get much from simply pitching new yeast in as is -- it'll be just as lazy as the yeast you've already got. After rehydrating, you'll want to get a starter going, and pitch that into your beer when it is at high krausen. This ensures that your new yeast are not only healthy, but also vigorous and highly active. (It isn't recommended to make starters with dry yeast for typical use, but in this case you'll need to).

 

[GHBWNY]

The dreaded 20's...

It obviously needs more time. Keep it warm and check progress after a week or longer. You can crank it up, slowly, to 75 or even 80 degrees if you must. A careful rousing each day may be helpful. Don't remove (bucket) lids, the CO2 in the headspace protects your beer.

Please reread all the posts that were made in this thread. Particularly this one.

You know, this yeast totally has a mind of its own. Between the time of my 'help' post this AM and coming home from work just now, the doggone thing took off again! Amb. is just over 70F now, and I'm presuming it is waking up from its 64F (maybe that was too cool a start?) water-bath slumber. It went from an absolutely lifeless airlock for the past two days to now perking every 30-35 sec. with the airlock full of bubbles.

As for removing the lid, I didn't. I took the FG sample through the airlock grommet with a sanitized syringe and piece of plastic tubing. When I mentioned the krausen had dropped, it was because through the grommet hole, I couldn't see any. But if it's not done ferming, who knows?

Thanks again, everyone, for the much appreciated help!

 

[GHBWNY]

Well, after 7-14, it bubbled for about a day and a half @ ~70F and stopped. Took a 2nd FG yesterday and it's still 1.023. I re-read the instructions and the target gravity is 1.017-1.020, not the 1.014-1.016 I thought (duh). So, it's not as far off the mark as I thought it was. Still, it tastes a little sweet for a tripel and I'd like it to dry down some more. Today I racked the beer to a second vessel and moved it up a couple degrees hoping the activity of doing so might re-awake the remaining yeast and finish it out at least 1.020. I also bought some more S-33 in case anyone thinks it would be advisable at this point to pitch a starter. If sweeter is this beer's destiny, I'll take it. But I really don't want sweet + bottle bombs.