Lagering specifics and reasons?

[joshesmusica]

Ok so I've got a hybrid bohemian pilsner that I plan on "lagering" for a week starting tomorrow. That plan is going off of advice of loads of people. But I'm wondering what temp exactly I should be doing this at, first of all. And I'm also wondering, basically, what exactly is the point of it?

 

[Yooper]

I like to lager just above freezing, for about a week for every 8-10 points of OG. So, for an OG of 1.064, I'd lager for 6-8 weeks.

Several things happen during lagering, notably the dropping of polyphenols (tannins from the husks as well as polyphenols from the hops) and proteins. That means a clearer beer, with a 'crispness' that is distinctive and a mellowing of the harshness of bittering hops. That's why lagers taste so 'clean' and are so drinkable.

 

[wobdee]

A week isn't long enough. Some say they get away with 2 weeks on a lower gravity lager but I find 5-6 weeks is prime for my Bo Pils.

 

[joshesmusica]

Ok. I got the advice of a week from several people making the hybrid pilsner with kölsch yeast.
I went with 5 days at 14c, 3 days 20, now 4 days dry hop, and was thinking of "lagering" for a week.
So it's not a typical bo pils, which was why I was assuming people suggested only a week.
Some people even said to bottle as usual, then carb up, then "lager" it for a week before drinking. So off of suggestions from all these people it was always a week, whether it was before or after bottle carbing.

 

[Yooper]

Ok. I got the advice of a week from several people making the hybrid pilsner with kölsch yeast.
I went with 5 days at 14c, 3 days 20, now 4 days dry hop, and was thinking of "lagering" for a week.
So it's not a typical bo pils, which was why I was assuming people suggested only a week.
Some people even said to bottle as usual, then carb up, then "lager" it for a week before drinking. So off of suggestions from all these people it was always a week, whether it was before or after bottle carbing.

I don't know that I'd cold condition something I dryhopped. One of the things that cold conditioning does is drop the polyphenols from the hops, and other things in suspension so that you may have a very muted hops flavor and aroma. A week won't hurt, though and may help with clarity.

 

[Teromous]

Ok. I got the advice of a week from several people making the hybrid pilsner with kölsch yeast.
I went with 5 days at 14c, 3 days 20, now 4 days dry hop, and was thinking of "lagering" for a week.
So it's not a typical bo pils, which was why I was assuming people suggested only a week.
Some people even said to bottle as usual, then carb up, then "lager" it for a week before drinking. So off of suggestions from all these people it was always a week, whether it was before or after bottle carbing.

How To Brew has a good primer on lagering. In general the higher the ABV and the lower the lagering temp, the longer you will want to do it. Cheers for starting a lager. I just tapped one of mine today that has been lagering for two months. If you want to get more hop character I would suggest getting into kegging. You can always put hops into the keg to boost the aroma. Lagering kegs is also very convenient for other reasons.

 

[joshesmusica]

I don't know that I'd cold condition something I dryhopped. One of the things that cold conditioning does is drop the polyphenols from the hops, and other things in suspension so that you may have a very muted hops flavor and aroma. A week won't hurt, though and may help with clarity.

so is this likely to taste ok given all of the extras that bring it out of the pilsner category? it was basically an experiment to see if i could do a late-hopped pilsner. so i just selected bohemian pilsner on beersmith, so really it's not likely anything like a bo pils.
75% pilsner malt
17% vienna malt
8% cara pils.
18 IBUs from 60 min - pacific gem (it's a high alpha that i had)
14 IBUs from 15 min hallertau blanc
6 IBUs because of 20 min hallertau blanc steep
dry hopped hallertau blanc as well

i like a nice pils to go fishing with or to have by the sand volleyball court, but i also like late addition hops. fg should be 1.013 if i did everything right, so it's not super dried out either.

 

[Yooper]

so is this likely to taste ok given all of the extras that bring it out of the pilsner category? it was basically an experiment to see if i could do a late-hopped pilsner. so i just selected bohemian pilsner on beersmith, so really it's not likely anything like a bo pils.
75% pilsner malt
17% vienna malt
8% cara pils.
18 IBUs from 60 min - pacific gem (it's a high alpha that i had)
14 IBUs from 15 min hallertau blanc
6 IBUs because of 20 min hallertau blanc steep
dry hopped hallertau blanc as well

i like a nice pils to go fishing with or to have by the sand volleyball court, but i also like late addition hops. fg should be 1.013 if i did everything right, so it's not super dried out either.

Definitely not a pilsner, but it looks like a very nice beer.

 

[Gofastr1]

I've searched extensively, but cannot find anything but anecdotal info on whether lagering under CO2 pressure (i.e. ~ 12psi or so.. sufficient to keep a corny sealed) is good, bad or indifferent. Anecdotally, several posters have said that they lager in the corny at the same time as carbonating, without any adverse impact on the finished beer. I think it is fairly well established that fermenting under pressure stresses the yeast and is not good - but I'm unclear as to whether this applies to whatever the yeast may be doing during lagering (at 32-34F).

Opinions welcome, references appreciated!

 

[wobdee]

I don't think the yeast are doing much during lagering stage, it's more of a maturation period that smooths out the flavor.

I know some lager breweries primary ferment under pressure but I don't think it's very high.

There is also other methods where the lager is fermented down to a few points above final gravity then its transfered to another tank to finish and naturally carb (spunding or krausening?) Then its filtered and transfered to lagering tanks to mature.

Personally I ferment at 50 for 6 days, raise to 60 for 4 days then crash to 38 in 2 days and usually keg at day 13. I try and leave as much yeast behind during racking and the kegs are kept on Co2 and lagered for 6 weeks before transfered to kegerator. This method has worked great for me so far but I'm thinking of trying out some kind of filtering system while tranfering to kegs.

 

[Ski12568]

Would gelatin drop all that out quicker? Or just the proteins?

 

[Schmoltsbeer]

I have used Brulosopher's quick lager method many times. I don't know how it compares in a side by side to true lagering, however, I have drank many fine lager bier of Bavaria and I get equal joy out of quick-lagering my beer. For instance, I did a Dopplebock that layered at 31-32 for about 2 weeks, then bottled (and carbonated in the bottles) before I started drinking it. I felt it was fine. It did have some high alcohol taste though it was very faint (the beer was measured by hydrometer at 10 percent ABV). I still have four bottles that I've kept around and will get to drinking eventual. Similarly I made a malt liquor that the guys at the LHBS said was right on. For what it's worth, if you have the space and feel impatient there are other methods to try.