Lagering - ... in the bottle??

[jimyoung]

Hello all,
Sorry for must be just yet-another-lager-question.. I really did try searching the forums for this!

I am making my first lager, been doing all-grain ales and stouts for about a year. I am using the "Vienna #1" recipe from beersmithrecipes.com, a website which I have had very good luck with.

Here is my question: the brew steps output by brewsmith for the recipe says the following:
- 14 days at 12.2c (54f). Check! (half way through as I write this)
- 2 days at 16.7c (62f). Seems to be a standard diacetyl rest. Can do!
- 30 days aging in the bottle at 15.6c (60f).. ?? Where is my lager phase?

If I open up beersmith, the aging actually has it ramped down linearly to 4.4c (40f) over the 30 days.

Am I missing something or is this off? Shouldn't the lagering be done in the carboy, or is it okay to age lager in the bottle? The recipe also asked me to rack to secondary for the diacetyl rest.. I was going to rack for the long lager, but won't be bothering for the few days of rest.

Input would be appreciated!

 

[m00ps]

lagering is typically done in the carboy and it helps it get more clear, but you can do it in the bottle at low temps if you want. It just might not be as effective at getting that elusive "lager" character

 

[Cyclman]

+1, I have done it both ways, there is more yeast / trub in bottle lagered beer, but both were delicious.

 

[TAK]

I haven't bottled a lager, just kegs, but I agree with the others. Lagering the undivided batch is probably best, but you'd be okay doing it in the bottles.

I did want to say though, you're absolutely right not to rack before doing the diacetyl rest. In fact, you shouldn't. The whole point if the diacetyl rest is to allow the yeast to clean up the diacetyl. It also helps the yeast finish attenuating fully. Racking off the yeast before this rest just hurts the yeast's ability to do this cleanup.

 

[Gavin C]

I don't like arbitrary timeframes for fermentation profiles. You lose all control of the process with a predetermined fermentation schedule. This is never a good idea and for a lager can lead to diminishing returns.

I do not like the temperature profile nor the set times you have outlined.

Lagering can be done in the bottle and just like lagering in bulk should be carried out as close to freezing temperatures of the beer as is practical. This often is limited by your equipment. Warmer lagering temps mean a longer lagering phase may be needed. Too warm and you don't get true lagering.

Lagering in the bottle should be done after carbonation has completed.

Typically it will lead to greater bottle sediment but there are ways to minimize this.

The advantage over bulk lagering prior to bottling is that the yeast will be more healthy and in suspension in greater numbers than they would be after a protracted bulk lagering phase. Carbonation is therefore highly predictable and no additional yeast is needed at bottling. This can sometimes be indicated after a long bulk lagering.

With a little planning you can really conduct the yeast to march to the beat of you the brewer's drum. You gotta understand them and treat them well though.

There are many different tried and tested fermentation profiles for lagers and lagering. The image below is taken from this brilliant trove of info put together by the braukaiser. A homebrew living legend. If you plan on brewing lagers it is massively useful. Worth a read prior to making your next one.

 

[jimyoung]

Hello, thanks for the replies! Very helpful. I will definitely read the braukaiser article in detail. I was also reading Palmer's lagering bits this morning, and I worry that I may have missed my optimum chance for a diacetyl rest, since the primary activity is well over.. I will take a gravity reading later today to see where it's at, and re-consider my temperature plans!

I think I will lager in the carboy and not bottle. With my submersed thermowell I get very good control over the temps, and either way the fridge isn't freed up.

 

[jimyoung]

Just took a reading - I'm at 1.016 (4.2 brix) when my target is 1.011. I also was a full 10 points off my OG target (1.042 instead of 1.052, new recipe, and I blame the mill settings that day, as I'm usually spot on ).

The beer tasted good, but to complex for a lager. It definitely was buttery (diacetyl) and had a bit of cidery-ness to it, which I am hoping is acetaldehyde.

Looking at the given charts, I am best fit to the D schedule - my numbers put me a little behind schedule. If I do the diacetyl rest (graph F), I will wait until I get a bit more work out of the yeasties. I am bottling another beer on Tues so maybe I can rack at that time and move to lagering. At least if I rack then I can leave it longer without worry in case I get busy

Thanks for your input!