Lager no activity

[DiscDoc]

I just made 10 gallon all grain Munich Helles with OG 1.050. I aerated for to min. and pitched 4 tubes White Labs 383 German southern Lager yeast at 70 degrees and cooled in fermentor to 53 degrees. It's been 4 days and no activity and no krausen. She I make a starter and repitch. Appreciate any recommendations. This is my first Lager.


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[kstiglich]

I think that there is no problem with the temperature of your fermenter, you are on the optimal temp for that yeast, and the pitching temperature would affect the yeast behavior but mainly on the final flavor of the beer.. (I like cleaner beers so pitch my yeast 5 degrees below the fermentation temp, and having the same temperature on my yeast and my wort)

You were supposed to have a fermentation right now, so I think that if you over oxygenate your wort, your yeast would be still propagating until it consume all oxygen, but I do not know how long it would take.
Other option is that your yeast was bad, but all of them?

How are you measuring the temp of your fermenter? Are you measuring the real beer temp, or the temp of your fridge? I would recommend you isolating your probe in order to be sure that you are measuring your beer and not your fridge.
Something like this...

 

[Yooper]

How are you defining "no activity"? Remember that lagers are bottom fermenting, and while generally I get a krausen mid way through active fermentation, signs of fermentation are pretty subtle.

Four vials in 10 gallons is underpitching, but you still should get some activity. Check out mrmalty.com, and go to "yeast tools" and yeast pitching calculator to see the optimum amount of yeast that should be pitched. I just did it quickly, and with a 1.050 lager, with yeast made on 9/25/14, you need over 9 packages of yeast with no starter. Ideal pitching rate is 700 billion cells- that's more than 7 packages if using ultra fresh yeast.

 

[hunter_le five]

Did you take a gravity reading to verify that no fermentation is happening? Sometimes lager fermentations can be so mild it "looks" like nothing's going on compared to an ale fermentation.

 

[MikeInMKE]

The first time I brewed a lager I had chilled the wort down as far as I could (65F), aerated the wort by violently rocking the fermentation bucket, and placed the bucket in a fridge at 46F, along the cultivated yeast. A couple days later, after they were both at 46F I opened the bucket, pitched the yeast, set the temperature to 48F.

I got nervous after four whole days of no airlock activity. Figuring it was due to lack of aeration (which I had done days before pitching the yeast), I lifted the bucket out of the fridge and began to violently rock the bucket.

Big mistake. The yeast were quite busy doing their thing, and saturating the beer with CO2, just not enough to create any visible airlock activity. I got one, maybe two rocks in before wort/beer sprayed out through the airlock, covering my face, the ceiling, and the wall behind me. Go ahead, laugh, I did!

 

[DiscDoc]

I guess I under pitched by quite a bit. I pitched about 300 billion cells and needed 900 billion. My SG hasn't changed. Should I make a starter of 600 billion cells and repitch?


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[kstiglich]

I guess I under pitched by quite a bit. I pitched about 300 billion cells and needed 900 billion. My SG hasn't changed. Should I make a starter of 600 billion cells and repitch?


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I guess you do not have oxygen in your wort, so probably the best way is making a large starter with an stirplate and repitch.... otherwise, you would need to use a lot of yeast vials...
Making your large starter will take you some time, so I would recommend reducing your beer temperature to the lowest posible (32f would be great), to avoid any bacteria having a party on your beer....I have never tried this but make sense....and when you have your starter ready, warm your beer to your desired pitching temp and repitch....

Anyway, I am still curious why your gravity is still the same? If you underpitch your beer at least your yeast was supposed to ferment some sugars...

 

[DiscDoc]

Ok I bit the bullet and made a 4.85 liter starter with 4 vials of white labs 383. After 24 hrs I cooled it to 50 degrees decanted and pitched. Should be about 870 billion cells. It's fermenting at a good clip at 53 degrees


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[DiscDoc]

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[brewshki]

Sorry, just a noon strolling through with a question. Was the under pitching a result of using the vials of yeast? From what I have read, you are supposed to make a starter for that type, right? I'm just asking to understand the process a little more. I use dry yeast and am just trying to pick up tips in case anything ever goes wrong like this


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[DiscDoc]

I think it was my bad on my first Lager. A combo of under pitching, old yeast and Lager temp. I will use Mr McMalty from now on for pitching rates. Hope this helps.


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[kstiglich]

If these are your first lagers, there are some different things will occur...such as rotten eggs smell or stinky sulfur, and a longer fermentation due to low fermentation temperature. Any yeast at lower temp will work at a lower speed, but the difference is that any Ale yeast will go dormant if go to low, but lager yeast will continue working but very slow, so you should expect to have a fermentation for 3 or 4 weeks and a following lagering time, that would suppose a long time.
I will try the following procedure in my next lager:

* Chill wort to pitching temp (48°-53°F), pitch adequately sized starter (decanted), set regulator to initial fermentation temp (50°-55°F), and leave beer to ferment 5 days. (+5 days)
* On the morning of the 5th day (beer should be over 50% attenuated), remove probe from side of fermentor so it measures ambient temp inside chamber and bump regulator up 3°-5°F; continue raising ambient temp 3°-5°F every 12 hours until you reach 65°F then leave it for 2-3 days to finish fermenting and cleaning up. (+5 days = 10 days)
* On day 11, start ramping the ambient temp of the chamber down 5°F every 12 hours until it reaches 30°F and let it cold crash/lager for 3-4 more days. (+8 days = 18 days)
* Rack cold (and usually very clear) beer to kegs, put kegs in kegerator/keezer on gas, leave for a week, serve! (+7 days = 24 days)

I found it on brulosophy.com
Also, you should try using dry yeast W34/70, it has more viability, and considering that when fermenting lagers you need a lot of yeast, it will give you a good option, anyway, you would need a 2Liters starter for a 5gallons wort with this dry yeast.
Good luck

 

[powermd]

I found it on brulosophy.com
Also, you should try using dry yeast W34/70, it has more viability, and considering that when fermenting lagers you need a lot of yeast, it will give you a good option, anyway, you would need a 2Liters starter for a 5gallons wort with this dry yeast.
Good luck

I'm making a beer essentially identical to the OP, following one of Kal's recipes.

I made a 2L starter using two packets of W34/70 and let it go for 24 hours on a stir plate at RT. I then chilled it for a few hours in the fridge, and decanted off most of the wort. I'm not sure what my pitching temp was, but probably in the low 60s. I oxygenated with a stone for about 60 seconds at moderate pressure. The beer is sitting in my keezer which is temp controlled to 53F. No apparent activity in the airlock this morning, about 15 hrs later. I'm wondering if I made a mistake with my starter. It certainly looked like a solid amount of creamy white yeast in the bottom of the starter flask. According to various calculators I should have had around 450B cells. Is it simply too early to get worried?

 

[DiscDoc]

I did the same recipe but used a liquid starter. It took about a week to start to bubble through the air lock


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[sawbossFogg]

It's going to take longer and that's a very small pitch.


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[g-star]

8 tubes of yeast for one batch? That's one expensive beer.

 

[QuercusMax]

For sure! For lagers I usually brew a 3-gallon batch of low-to-medium (1.040-1.055) gravity beer as a drinkable starter - gives me lots of good healthy yeast to pitch into my next batch. Two tubes of yeast into a 3-gallon batch should grow you up enough yeast for a 10-gallon batch no problem.

 

[Justdrumin]

For sure! For lagers I usually brew a 3-gallon batch of low-to-medium (1.040-1.055) gravity beer as a drinkable starter - gives me lots of good healthy yeast to pitch into my next batch. Two tubes of yeast into a 3-gallon batch should grow you up enough yeast for a 10-gallon batch no problem.

I just might try this for my Oktoberfest Marzen I'm planning to brew around springtime. I plan to do a 10g batch of it and this is a great way to propagate yeast and you get more tasty brew out of it too! Very nice.

 

[DiscDoc]

No 2 packs and a 5000ml starter


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[JimRausch]

I do my lagers in November/December. This year I plan on starting off with a Vienna at around 1.050 with a starter of 375B. When that's ready to transfer, harvest the yeast and use it in a Marzen at around 1.058 and finish the yeast with a Bock at 1.064. The whole concept of using a lower gravity beer to grow yeast for a higher gravity pitch just makes a lot of sense to me. Plus I get 3 beers out of one pack!

 

[powermd]

Krausen at last! It took about 48 hrs.

 

[QuercusMax]

Making a starter with dry yeast is a little silly, as you'd get almost no growth with 2 packs of 34/70 in a 2L starter (that's already 400 billion cells to start). Since cold liquid holds so much more co2, it's not uncommon to not see bubbles got a while on a lager.