Lager Fermentation 101?

[thisjrp4]

I'm prepping to do my first lager and I'm looking for a real good and descriptive procedure on lager fermentation. I guess my main questions are: What temp do I pitch at? How quickly do you raise the temperature from fermentation to diacetyl rest? How quickly do you cool to lagering tems after diactyl? And when do I transfer to a secondary?

Thanks!

 

[Sir-Brews-Alot]

Here's what I do, and have had great success with my lagers (note: this is for an average 1.050ish beer, anything bigger like a dopplebock will require much more time):

-Cool wort to ~45°F. Obviously I can't do this with a chiller alone, so I usually end up sticking it in my freezer for 4-5 hrs after brewing. If you're brewing process is sanitary, this should be no problem.

-Inject pure oxygen, and pitch my appropriate sized starter.

-Let the temp slowly rise to 48° as fermentation starts to take off. With my Johnson temp controller, I find it works best to attach the probe directly to the fermenter, and then tape a big wad of thermal insulation over it. Set the controller to 46° with a 2° variance, and it will sit at 48° even during the most active fermentation.

-Don't touch the beer for a minimum of 4 weeks. I do not do a diacetyl rest, as I find by pitching at below ferment temps and pitching a proper amount of yeast, it is unnecessary.

-On the 4th week, after making sure my terminal gravity is reached, I rack my beer over to a 5g glass carboy and stick the bung in. Then I slowly drop the temp to lager temps (32°F) over a week period and set it and forget it for a month minimum, usually 2 months.

-Bottle as usual. I have no problems carbonating beer that has lagered for 2 months. It will take a long time to carbonate, though. 4 or 5 weeks at room temp.

 

[jsled]

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers is a good resource, including a capsule "Your First Lager Fermentation" at the top.

 

[motobrewer]

lots of people pitch warm and cool to ferment temp
lots of people pitch cool and let it warm to ferment temp
lots of people pitch at ferment temp

bigger considerations are pitching tons of yeast and using oxygen. if you don't have oxygen, aerate more than you're used to.

d-rest, i don't know anyone that does it. the guy who wins gold in state fair comp every year for bocks is my uncle, he doesn't do it. i'd be curious to hear if anyone here has detected diacetyl, done a d-rest, and have it cleared up. 2-3-4 weeks in primary is fine.

ramping down to lagering temp, consensus is 2F / day until its at your temp. then lager for two months.

 

[Sir-Brews-Alot]

i'd be curious to hear if anyone here has detected diacetyl, done a d-rest, and have it cleared up. 2-3-4 weeks in primary is fine.

My first lager, a German Pils, had some diacetyl present. I was a noob and pitched warm, and probably didn't have a large enough yeast starter. I gave it a diacetyl rest ay 65°F for a week and it actually cleared up the buttery flavors quite nice, and by the time I bottled it was all but gone. Turned out to be a pretty decent beer, but I've changed a lot since my first lager, namely using pure oxygen, pitching cold, pitching the appropriate amount of yeast, and perhaps most importantly....lots of patience.

 

[android]

as for the d-rest, i normally do a similar thing as when i ferment an ale. i allow the normal fermentation to take place (for about 2 weeks), and when I can see that fermentation is slowing down, i raise the temperature in the chamber to 60 degrees or so and just let it finish out for a few days. i figure it can't hurt, but I never actually test for diacetyl, so I have no idea if it works, it just makes me feel better about the process.

 

[osagedr]

Here's what I do, and have had great success with my lagers (note: this is for an average 1.050ish beer, anything bigger like a dopplebock will require much more time):

-Cool wort to ~45°F. Obviously I can't do this with a chiller alone, so I usually end up sticking it in my freezer for 4-5 hrs after brewing. If you're brewing process is sanitary, this should be no problem.

-Inject pure oxygen, and pitch my appropriate sized starter.

-Let the temp slowly rise to 48° as fermentation starts to take off. With my Johnson temp controller, I find it works best to attach the probe directly to the fermenter, and then tape a big wad of thermal insulation over it. Set the controller to 46° with a 2° variance, and it will sit at 48° even during the most active fermentation.

-Don't touch the beer for a minimum of 4 weeks. I do not do a diacetyl rest, as I find by pitching at below ferment temps and pitching a proper amount of yeast, it is unnecessary.

-On the 4th week, after making sure my terminal gravity is reached, I rack my beer over to a 5g glass carboy and stick the bung in. Then I slowly drop the temp to lager temps (32°F) over a week period and set it and forget it for a month minimum, usually 2 months.

-Bottle as usual. I have no problems carbonating beer that has lagered for 2 months. It will take a long time to carbonate, though. 4 or 5 weeks at room temp.

This is pretty similar to my own process. The things I do differently are:

(1) I don't pitch my entire starter (usually at least a gallon), but decant and just pitch the yeast. It's normal for me to either repitch slurry or use dry yeast so I don't do lager starters that often.

(2) I always do a d-rest, even though it may not be necessary. It costs me nothing and after suffering through a couple of d-bombs when I used to brew with extracts, I figure better safe than sorry. To each their own, but to answer the OPs question regarding timing, just take your fermenter out of the freezer or set your controller to 60 or just over. The temperature will raise very slowly. Start your d-rest when your OG hits 1.020 or just under. I usually leave the beer at d-rest temp for a week, but sometimes more like four days.

(3) Not much need to drop your temp slowly if it's been in the fermenter for four weeks. I cold crash after the d-rest.

(4) I keg rather than bottle. It's good to hear that you have no problems carbing up after cool fermentation and lagering. I've read that others carb up at fermentation temperature rather than room temperature.

 

[thisjrp4]

This is great info. Thanks!

 

[osagedr]

Really there are two big things you can do wrong:

(1) not pitch enough yeast. If you haven't seen it, use the pitching rate calculator at www.mrmalty.com You must, must, must, must pitch enough yeast for lagers. I really believe that for lager newbies, the safest strategy is to pitch two packs of dry yeast rehydrated as per manufacturer's instructions. My favourite is W-34/70 but I have also used S-23.

(2) not ferment at the correct temperature (usually too high). If you are brewing all grain, you have a very fermentable wort and I have found you can really push the temperatures down into the 46 degree range (depends on the yeast; I mostly use the 34/70).

Bottom line, push that temp down as low as you dare, then pitch lots of yeast to make sure you get the job done.

 

[Sir-Brews-Alot]

Really there are two big things you can do wrong:

(1) not pitch enough yeast. If you haven't seen it, use the pitching rate calculator at www.mrmalty.com You must, must, must, must pitch enough yeast for lagers. I really believe that for lager newbies, the safest strategy is to pitch two packs of dry yeast rehydrated as per manufacturer's instructions. My favourite is W-34/70 but I have also used S-23.

(2) not ferment at the correct temperature (usually too high). If you are brewing all grain, you have a very fermentable wort and I have found you can really push the temperatures down into the 46 degree range (depends on the yeast; I mostly use the 34/70).

Bottom line, push that temp down as low as you dare, then pitch lots of yeast to make sure you get the job done.

Agreed 100%. I'll also add that, in my experience, adequate oxygenation is key to optimal lager fermentation. Once I started using pure O2 I saw a vast improvement in all of my beers, but my lagers in particular. They started coming out cleaner, and more crisp, and I started seeing better attenuation, by a few gravity points, and healthier, more active fermentations overall.

 

[osagedr]

Yeah I have to say the krausens on my last several lagers have been pretty crazy--even with pushing the temps down. I figure the pure O2 through an aeration stone has a lot to do with it. Next up--doppelbock!

 

[Brewskii]

Seriously, you guys should sticky this. It is surprisingly difficult to search for this info - yet this thread is short and precise.

BTW.... Thanks for the info. Trying to make up my mind on what kind of lager beer to start with considering the time investment.

 

[944play]

I started with a Schwarzbier, and I'm glad I did. The color makes you care a bit less about clarity, the dark grains pull mash pH down, and you'll appreciate the lager crispitude relatively quickly.

I've always gotten diacetyl from the 34/70 strain, but 2308 has reignited my enthusiasm for lager brewing!

 

[osagedr]

Seriously, you guys should sticky this. It is surprisingly difficult to search for this info - yet this thread is short and precise.

BTW.... Thanks for the info. Trying to make up my mind on what kind of lager beer to start with considering the time investment.

I suggested starting a lager tips "Sticky" thread to one of the mods not long ago, but we never got around to doing anything about it.

 

[osagedr]

I've always gotten diacetyl from the 34/70 strain, but 2308 has reignited my enthusiasm for lager brewing!

That's interesting because I've used 34/70 probably half a dozen times and never had diacetyl. What temp do you ferment at? Do you do a d-rest? I remember reading about your procedure in another thread and that it gave me the impression of being very solid, but I can't figure why you would have d-issues with this yeast when I never do. Pitching rate differences maybe?

 

[944play]

That's interesting because I've used 34/70 probably half a dozen times and never had diacetyl. What temp do you ferment at?

With both W-34/70 and WLP830, I was pitching and fermenting at 10°C/50°F, but I know the oxygen was probably short and d-rests were too late. Kraeusening seemed to have helped one batch in particular.

I have much more consistent results with 2308. It floccs well and always seems quite vigorous. I repitch it out to 5 generations typically, more than any other strain I've used. Diacetyl-free beers, speed, and easy handling make my choice simple.

 

[osagedr]

With both W-34/70 and WLP830, I was pitching and fermenting at 10°C/50°F, but I know the oxygen was probably short and d-rests were too late. Kraeusening seemed to have helped one batch in particular.

I have much more consistent results with 2308. It floccs well and always seems quite vigorous. I repitch it out to 5 generations typically, more than any other strain I've used. Diacetyl-free beers, speed, and easy handling make my choice simple.

Cool; I haven't used 2308 much, although I was impressed with it in a Vienna lager I made a few months ago. It's interesting, in "Designing Great Beers" Daniels mentions what he calls the 308 yeast as being a tricky yeast (in either the chapter on bock or the chapter on pilseners; I can't remember which for sure).

 

[944play]

Well, you're not likely to get loads of attenuation from it, but that works to the brewer's advantage in smaller beers and makes bigger ones more... luxurious. It's like the 1968 of lager strains.

I took Jamil's advice to try a few lager yeasts, pick one, learn it, and treat it like your baby.

 

[osagedr]

I really need to broaden my lager yeast horizons. I just ordered six more packages of W-34/70. I think I will try to get some S-189 shipped up here just to see what it's like. I probably should be experimenting more: make up a six gallon batch then ferment half with one lager yeast and half with another. Then could, as you say, settle on a favourite, or maybe a favourite for light lagers vs. a favourite for bocks vs. a favourite for schwarz.

Dang lagers take soooo long before they peak!

 

[944play]

My experience with S-189 (sample space=1) was not good. Uninspiringly pokey ferment, the finished beer felt flabby despite 1.058 - 1.013 attenuation, and there was a strong apple ester. Maybe it was just old yeast.

 

[osagedr]

My experience with S-189 (sample space=1) was not good. Uninspiringly pokey ferment, the finished beer felt flabby despite 1.058 - 1.013 attenuation, and there was a strong apple ester. Maybe it was just old yeast.

Crappy; I just ordered six packs! Hopefully I will have better luck. I have read pretty good things about it elsewhere.

 

[motobrewer]

wlp833 is the best lager yeast.

lol

 

[osagedr]

Wish we homebrewers could get our hands on all of these:

http://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/strains.html

 

[motobrewer]

good news!

WLP820 Octoberfest/Marzen Lager = Weihenstephan 206 = 2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast
WLP830 German Lager = Weihenstephan 34/70 = 2124 Bohemian Lager

http://www.mrmalty.com/white-labs.php