Kviek yeast for lagers...talk to me

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hilljack13

hilljack13

That's what she said!
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I finally decided to try the kviek (voss) yeast. It should arrive today. I had seen a few pseudo lagers done on youtube and seeing my 34/70 experiments haven't been going so good I figured why not go with kviek. Now all of a sudden when searching around on how to use this yeast, I keep getting results for big ales and not much on the lager side. I am thinking I should have re-looked before buying. Anywho, I plan to do a 1 gal test of Maypol Maibock clone. Scaled down BrewFather has me at
2lb 7oz Pilsner & 12oz Munich II.
OG 1.066 so close to what I find on the 1.070 being better.

Did I get the right yeast? Anyone use kviek for pseudo lagers, marzen, helles??
 
Did I get the right yeast? Anyone use kviek for pseudo lagers, marzen, helles??
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A Kveik yeast like Lutra is generally recommended for pseudo-lagers. There are a few vendors that have other "clean" Kveik strains as well. When fermented at 85F+, Voss adds a significant orange character (that some like, some don't). I fermented a Hoppy Blonde ale with Voss at both 85F and 65F. At 65F there was much less orange, but it was not as neutral as US-05 or W-34/70.

Give it a try and see how you like the beer. I doubt it will be a competition winning example of a Maibock, but it might make a very good beer. I tend to like Voss in a recipe that blends the citrus character of Voss with other citrus flavors from the hops.
 
My opinion after having brewed multiple kviek and Lutra hybird beers is just don't do it. It's not worth it. Maybe it's just me and my picky palate, but I didn't like the beers I made with kviek. I really wanted to because of the speed and reliability of the yeast. Heck, the stuff is so resilient, I had a pack of Lutra freeze in transit, decided I wasn't going to use it, then a year and a half later I decided to make a starter with it. Took off within 24 hours and performed like it was fresh. That stuff is insane. But if you're looking for it to give you a beer that tastes like something you'd brew with US-05 or 34/70, you'll be very disappointed.

EDIT: And Voss isn't going to get you anywhere close to lager-like. You might still really like it though. Voss makes a good hazy (which I abhor these days), also makes great dark beers. I don't like kviek at all in lighter beers.
 
I personally have had significantly better experiences running lagers at room temperature than getting something lager-like from kviek (though I used Oslo for the most part).

It'll certainly make beer though!
 
I would have gone with Lutra instead of Voss in your case. I used Lutra in a pseudo schwarzbier and quite liked it. But I've had mixed results using Voss, depending on the recipe and possibly the fermentation temperature. Voss worked ok in a neipa for me, and wasn't too bad in an apricot wheat beer I brewed. But I used it in a, APA and wanted to take advantage of the orange flavor it gives off so I also added orange zest at or near flame out. The beer was only so-so at first, but changed for the worse over a couple weeks. The flavor turned to overripe orange, the kind of orange you've had too long so you throw it away rather than eat it. I tried to struggle through it but ended up dumping about half a keg. I think Voss can work if you throw enough potent flavor hops at it to cover up the distinct orange it produces, but you 're probably better off going with Lutra since it's much cleaner. Not lager clean but I think it can still decent beer with a Kveik-friendly recipe.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'll consider getting a pack of lutra to test. When I ordered, I searched for kviek and took the only option available. Live and learn.
 
I use Voss Kviek for everything! I find it neutral enough it doesn't affect the flavor for the lagers and pale ales I brew. The main reason I use it is because I don't need to control the temp.

I start my transfer into my fermenter at 130 degrees (f) and let it sit for about an hour. By then the temp has dropped to around 105 and I'm ready to pitch. I wrap a towel around my fermenter and I'm done. I'll start getting active fermentation after about 6 hours and runs for about 24-48 hours.

It's really made my brew days more efficient with less headaches.
 
Lutra kveik is generally suggested as a clean alternative for pseudo lagers, but in my opinion it's not clean at all. Very heavy lime/citrus esters and something else I can't place. Voss kveik can be somewhat clean, but not like a lager. Kveik in general seems to work best in relatively strong beers. Nottingham at lower temperatures is sometimes suggested as well.
 
+1 to the Lutra comments as well. Especially if you are not just looking for a completely clean lager yeast profile and are hitting the limits of your equipment. The flavors are somewhat different but I appreciate that. And that's just a taste preference. Every ingredient/yeast discussion comes down to your taste preference.

I'm curious what others are running their temps at? I've done several at low 70s and it seems reasonably clean. Takes a little while to drop clear but lagers out very nicely. Depending on the temps you can reach I assume many people would recommend a kolsch yeast or just US-05. They're not wrong either.

hilljack13 said:
Great idea! I just kegged a stout a few weeks ago so I am kinda on that kick already.
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I'm definitely with @BongoYodeler on this. Voss can make a wonderful stout. Clean and cohesive. And I've also direct pitched dry Voss that was over a year past date. I assumed it was fresher and didn't check before it was pitch time. I wouldn't recommend that approach but it was churning the next morning.
 
Agent said:
I personally have had significantly better experiences running lagers at room temperature than getting something lager-like from kviek (though I used Oslo for the most part).

It'll certainly make beer though!
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Yeah, I agree for the lagers at room temp. But I also figured his room temp might not be my room temp :( Especially if he's in Alabama. Also, OSLO is a really nice yeast. The turnaround on that as a fairly clean, quick beer was fun. Just still not a 1:1 replacement to running a lager yeast a little warmer if you can do it. And I always love Bootleg.

And it's all beer in the end :mug:
 
How about I toss a pack into a big beer. I picked up the Plinian Progeny on sale a few weeks ago and it is estimated OG is 1.090.
 
I'm a bit torn on that. On one hand I'm very interested in how it would taste. I'm quite sure it can handle a 1.090 ferment. If using it on that recipe I'd make sure to hit it with a lot of yeast nutrient and ferment on the cooler side, maybe low/mid 70's or lower to hopefully keep some of the orange flavors in check. But on the other hand that's a very expensive recipe to use as a test, especially when there's other, more optimal yeast options. I'm interested to see what you decide.
 
BongoYodeler said:
I'm a bit torn on that. On one hand I'm very interested in how it would taste. I'm quite sure it can handle a 1.090 ferment. If using it on that recipe I'd make sure to hit it with a lot of yeast nutrient and ferment on the cooler side, maybe low/mid 70's or lower to hopefully keep some of the orange flavors in check. But on the other hand that's a very expensive recipe to use as a test, especially when there's other, more optimal yeast options. I'm interested to see what you decide.
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I hear you. The kit was on sale or somehow I ended up with a bit of a discount. I have ended up with 3-4 Plinian kit over the past few months. No saying I won't be upset if the kviek doesn't do well, but I have other similar kit to get right next time around.
 
One thing I found is that Lutra Kveik taste so much more cleaner when yeast nutrient is added. Only then did I brew what I thought was a so called "pseudo lager". I made a Vienna lager that was just superb with it. As far as Voss goes, I sometimes use it on an English style blonde ale recipe that reminds me of those orange "push-up" ice cream sticks I use to get when I was a kid. Around two days at 90f, kegged after a total of seven days, quite drinkable.

DMF.
 
Kveik for lagers?!?

get-out-hubert.gif
 
hilljack13 said:
How about I toss a pack into a big beer. I picked up the Plinian Progeny on sale a few weeks ago and it is estimated OG is 1.090.
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I think that can still work. Lallemand themselves suggest ~1.3 sachets for 5 gallons, but they suggest relatively large pitching rates imo. Lower rates still work usually. I've gotten good results with pitching too much as well, so it's up to you basically.
 
As one who has used 6 different kveik strains (Voss, Lutra, Hornidal, Espe, Opshaug, Stranda) I can say that none will get you anything in the lager like region. Lutra can be crisp at times but there's that weird citrus or welches grape flavor that comes out some times. It's just not enjoyable to my palate. Would have to recommend doing starters with W34/70 instead. Run one pack through a 2L 1.040 starter and call it a day. That's the only way I've been able to get consistent results out of that strain short of going with the liquid variants.
 
rtstrider said:
As one who has used 6 different kveik strains (Voss, Lutra, Hornidal, Espe, Opshaug, Stranda) I can say that none will get you anything in the lager like region. Lutra can be crisp at times but there's that weird citrus or welches grape flavor that comes out some times. It's just not enjoyable to my palate. Would have to recommend doing starters with W34/70 instead. Run one pack through a 2L 1.040 starter and call it a day. That's the only way I've been able to get consistent results out of that strain short of going with the liquid variants.
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Do you remember the profile and temps for Lutra when that happens? Curious if I'm just not tasting this or if we're doing something different. I'd believe either. Haven't done a Lutra beer in a little bit and will be looking for this next time.

I'm dropping in ~ 1 tsp/gal of a yeast nutrient like fermax at 5 mins and then running it around 72-75. Always about 50ppm Ca and 12ppm Mg for water with a 144/162 hochkurz mash for 30 mins each. I've hit those same temps with the same water/mash profile for 34/70 and haven't liked the result. I'd easily recommend that over Lutra here too, if the temp is right. FWIW, running Augustiner or 34/70 slightly warmer would win for me any day but I'm not sure Op can get his temps there.
 
eliastheodosis said:
Do you remember the profile and temps for Lutra when that happens? Curious if I'm just not tasting this or if we're doing something different. I'd believe either. Haven't done a Lutra beer in a little bit and will be looking for this next time.

I'm dropping in ~ 1 tsp/gal of a yeast nutrient like fermax at 5 mins and then running it around 72-75. Always about 50ppm Ca and 12ppm Mg for water with a 144/162 hochkurz mash for 30 mins each. I've hit those same temps with the same water/mash profile for 34/70 and haven't liked the result. I'd easily recommend that over Lutra here too, if the temp is right. FWIW, running Augustiner or 34/70 slightly warmer would win for me any day but I'm not sure Op can get his temps there.
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Honestly I got grape when using the Omega lutra helles recipe. I got lemon/lime when attempting to use it in both a kolsch and cream ale non temp controlled
 
rtstrider said:
Honestly I got grape when using the Omega lutra helles recipe. I got lemon/lime when attempting to use it in both a kolsch and cream ale non temp controlled
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I found your past post on the Kölsch. Thanks for the info! I'm going to try something with Lutra soon around that same 73F with nutrients. I'll let you know. It seems from that past post that it might work okay for a hoppy pils. You're in Florida, I think, so I asume non temp controlled is...warm. That's what I remember fitting best too. Especially after a couple months lagering, which is pretty standard for me. I hardly taste before 8 weeks, so maybe that's why I'm not noticing as much. Maybe a Kölsch too. I couldn't imagine brewing a helles I'm happy with using this yeast, though.

I also see from that post that using wlp029 kolsch yeast at 60F gives you a better beer. If op can reach that temp then it opens them to 34/70, augustiner, and maybe a couple others too. I assume he is having trouble with 34/70 because of temp. If not, big pitch of 34/70 like you said.

@hilljack13 , I guess pick your poison based on temps you can reach.

@strider, I'll update on the lutra. If you're in Florida I feel like it could be applicable. Also, I gave Andechs a shot (at lager temps) and it was beautiful.

:mug:
 
If you can't manage to get a decent beer from 3470, then the yeast is not the problem. Either recipe or process issues, or maybe both.

Either way, a kveik does not make a decent lager-ish beer, also not ultra.

You can try 3470 warm or imperial harvest warm. Both work well at around room temperature. Wlp 800 also. But if you cannot get these to work properly, you have other issues.
 
Which process, other than all, should I look at first. I have done warm ferment, cold ferment, 1 gal, 5 gal, and with the exception of the 5 gal, have only used pilner, munich II, vienna, and caramunich II. Sanitize everything, same as my ales, and never have an issue with any ales.
I did do another 1 gal Saturday, however I pitched S189 instead. Fermenting at 53F.
 
hilljack13 said:
Which process, other than all, should I look at first. I have done warm ferment, cold ferment, 1 gal, 5 gal, and with the exception of the 5 gal, have only used pilner, munich II, vienna, and caramunich II. Sanitize everything, same as my ales, and never have an issue with any ales.
I did do another 1 gal Saturday, however I pitched S189 instead. Fermenting at 53F.
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Okay, 34/70 should be fine at 53F. What's the issue you're seeing? Off flavor? Attenuation issues? If you ferment at that temp you want a much bigger pitch than an ale.
 
eliastheodosis said:
Okay, 34/70 should be fine at 53F. What's the issue you're seeing? Off flavor? Attenuation issues? If you ferment at that temp you want a much bigger pitch than an ale.
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I'm almost positive the off flavor is diacetyl. In the warm ferment batch, it has slowly gone down, but a tiny bit remains. I may just need to adjust ferment or condition times.
 
hilljack13 said:
I'm almost positive the off flavor is diacetyl. In the warm ferment batch, it has slowly gone down, but a tiny bit remains. I may just need to adjust ferment or condition times.
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Warm fermented lager almost always has no diacethyl left as the fermentation temperature is well within the diacethyl rest temperature range. Maybe something else? Can you describe the off-flavour?

Edit: Sry, misread your post.
 
No worries. I'm not so good at describing off flavors other than "bad". Not much help. I would say more of an oily butter of butterscotch.
 
Hard to beat WLP 833 for German Lagers and 90 days maturation. My favorite!

For a quickie - I've used Kviek before on IPA's. The OYL-091 Hornindal Kviek worked great, the tropical esters worked fine in a flavorful IPA. Super easy and speedy to use too. Definite use for those impatient drinkers who are thirsty like right now!
 
hilljack13 said:
No worries. I'm not so good at describing off flavors other than "bad". Not much help. I would say more of an oily butter of butterscotch.
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That does sound like diacetly. I would say buttery popcorn that adds fullness or richness, but definitely definitely butter. Diacetly could have multiple causes but if this is just for lagers for you then my guess is something about the fermentation process. So things like making sure you pitch enough, letting it ramp a little to clean up before fermentation is totally done, and don't crash before fermentation is fully complete. Yeast produce diacetly but they also process it and get rid of it given enough time. Many lager yeasts will produce some diacetly, so optimizing the process to get rid of it is important.

Also, some people just taste diacetly better. I can't taste it much and don't mind it much when I do. I have friends that can't even drink a beer when I barely notice. Maybe think about NovaLager from Lallemand. You should still think about cause here, but NovaLager is a low VDK/diacetly producer. Might work better for you and your palate.
 
Draft Master Flash said:
One thing I found is that Lutra Kveik taste so much more cleaner when yeast nutrient is added. Only then did I brew what I thought was a so called "pseudo lager". I made a Vienna lager that was just superb with it. As far as Voss goes, I sometimes use it on an English style blonde ale recipe that reminds me of those orange "push-up" ice cream sticks I use to get when I was a kid. Around two days at 90f, kegged after a total of seven days, quite drinkable.

DMF.
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Would you mind posting that recipe?
 
dmtaylor said:
[...troll enters]

Kveik is overrated.

Enjoy.

[/troll]
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Perhaps a bit. But I can see it as just another tool in the toolbox, especially for those who have no fermentation temperature control. It's certainly not the be-all, end-all yeast solution though. It's been "bred" for many many years for a very narrow purpose, but recently it's been released on the brewing world to brewers who are using it to ferment beers it was never intended to ferment. And that's not the yeast's fault.
 
hilljack13 said:
I think this might be part of the cause. I have only gone more than 14 days once, and oddly enough that was on the one that had the least amount of off flavor. Although it does make me wonder about the warm fermented one...
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You shouldn't need that long to clean up diacetyl at room temp for 34/70. I've done quite a few at 65F for two weeks and have never had trouble. Every setup and every palate is different, though. I'd suggest letting it go another week and see what happens. The time won't hurt. Make sure everything else is in line with the fermentation too so it's strong enough to finish and clean up after itself. If it's a weak ferment and it's still going when you crash it then that could be the issue. Pitch amount and aeration come to mind as potential culprits there. Maybe consider re-posting about this too. You'll probably get more help that way. I'm pretty sure something is happening with your process here and someone else might be able to help more. 34/70 shouldn't be doing that.
 
dmtaylor said:
[...troll enters]

Kveik is overrated.

Enjoy.

[/troll]
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If I'm tracking right then we've got...
  • it's great
  • it's terrible
  • it's not a lager replacement
  • it's decent for a lager without temp control
  • use it for an IPA
  • just use a clean ale yeast
  • use 34/70 warm
If I had just laid out my card a little different I think I'd have kveik post bingo twice over now...
 
eliastheodosis said:
You shouldn't need that long to clean up diacetyl at room temp for 34/70. I've done quite a few at 65F for two weeks and have never had trouble. Every setup and every palate is different, though. I'd suggest letting it go another week and see what happens. The time won't hurt. Make sure everything else is in line with the fermentation too so it's strong enough to finish and clean up after itself. If it's a weak ferment and it's still going when you crash it then that could be the issue. Pitch amount and aeration come to mind as potential culprits there. Maybe consider re-posting about this too. You'll probably get more help that way. I'm pretty sure something is happening with your process here and someone else might be able to help more. 34/70 shouldn't be doing that.
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I have another 1 gal test using it planned. I'll let it go longer. Maybe the batch of yeast I received is having issues? Exp date isn't until 3/2026.

Pitch rate is ~4.6-6g. Based off science because 2 sachets = 23g/5gal so 1 gal only needs 4.6 min (I'll go get the popcorn now):popcorn:

Aeration could be low. Most of what I do is use a whisk when cooling in the sink. It takes about 10 min and I have plenty of bubble, but that might not mean much.
 

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