Kickstarter for SS Mash Tun, Kettle and Fermenter

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Alright I'm convinced! I just signed up for the $399 "triple threat" option.

I figure it will make a nice surprise sometime in September when it shows up :)
 
I've been contemplating building a bottom draining keggle mash tun but this kickstarter's insulated mash tun has me tempted. I was planning on maintaining temperature by recirculation through a RIMS tube I am building.
Was looking for input as to if I should up my pledge to include a mash tun or if you guys thought that was silly.
 
Honestly the mash tun is the big value piece of this kickstarter. Insulated SS is hard to find.
 
I'm kinda wondering if I want to get a mash tun as well. I was planning on Using 3 blichmann boilermakers for my EHERMS build when I get home... But now I'm kind of likeing the idea of one of these for the mash...
 
Steve added a new 'reward' for me:

15 gallon mashtun + two 7 gallon fermenters.

Thought that would be a good combination.
 
Well...just pulled the trigger on the mash tun and kettle 15s. I'm hoping for the best.
 
I am in for a 10G MT and thinking I want to put a blichman autosparge in it. The inside dimension is 13.78 inches. Will that work or should I go bigger?
 
I went ahead and upgraded to the 10gal Mash tun and 2 7 gal Fermenters. I figure the insulated mash will be better for my set up than just the blichman pots... I thought about the 15 gallon tun, but I really don't see myself making anything bigger than 5 gallon batches...

Now my only thing is questioning the ball valves in the fermenters. I imagine those will be excelent little bacteria harbors... and wonder if using them to take samples will be a good idea, or will once again open it up more to bacteria.. I've never used anything other than a carboy, so I'm uncertain of that one.
 
Re: ball valves sanitation...
I plan on liberal application of my starsan spray bottle to flush out the outside of the valve. We will see how that goes.
 
The Kickstarter only has 24 hours left, but I thought I'd take a minute to reply to a couple questions on this thread one last time. After this, if you have any questions that you want answered directly, please send me an email at [email protected].

xben said:
the products look fine but the shipping to Canada is a bit too expensive!
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We didn't realize how popular our products would be in Canada. So we moved forward with the project without putting too much thought into ways to reduce shipping costs. We are working on setting up a distribution point in Vancouver, BC. We are also hoping to sell wholesale to LHBSs currently operating in Canada. These will reduce shipping costs in the future. But regrettably, we weren't able to reduce any shipping costs for the Kickstarter.

Roadliner said:
Now my only thing is questioning the ball valves in the fermenters. I imagine those will be excelent little bacteria harbors... and wonder if using them to take samples will be a good idea, or will once again open it up more to bacteria.. I've never used anything other than a carboy, so I'm uncertain of that one.
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For proper sanitation, the ball valve attachments should be disassembled and sterilized in boiling water. I don't imagine that taking samples during fermentation would open it it up to any infections, as there wouldn't be anything traveling back through the valve. But I imagine that would cause air to come in through the airlock, and that wouldn't be sanitary.

Anyway, thanks for support from everyone. Now we need to get to work on fulfilling the rewards asap.

Cheers!
 
Gavin C said:
Thanks for posting this on HBT. They made their target with 6 days to spare. No affiliation, I'm just glad I heard about it. Got exactly what I was looking for in an FV.
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Yeah. I saw this Kickstarter on a local Minnesota homebrew group page. I thought it might be cool to share on this site. I thought long and hard about it but ultimately decided not to pull the trigger. I'm doing 2.5 gallon batches and don't plan on increasing the volume. Although, it would have been an easy choice if they had a SS setup for my batch size.
 
ChapmanEquipment said:
For proper sanitation, the ball valve attachments should be disassembled and sterilized in boiling water.
Click to expand...
Good advice on disassembly. Having just pulled apart the three piece valves on the hot side of my setup for the first time I'd pull apart the ones on the cold side each and every batch. The valves hold liquid in them along with gunk getting stuck in the threads. I don't think cleaning/sanitizing in place would do an adequate job on the cold side.

ChapmanEquipment said:
I don't imagine that taking samples during fermentation would open it it up to any infections, as there wouldn't be anything traveling back through the valve. But I imagine that would cause air to come in through the airlock, and that wouldn't be sanitary.
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The ease of drawing samples is one of the main benefits of a valve, I don't see the air being drawn in as much of an issue. Just make sure you pull the airlock to prevent the airlock fluid from being drawn into the vessel.
 
I can't wait!!!

image.jpg
 
brewslinger said:
Looks pretty good to me. Anyone have any experience with Kickstarters and their likelihood of success?
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My experience is that it really depends on how exotic the product is. Bought a card game thing for my niece that was delivered on time and as expected.

On the other end of the spectrum I bought a Firefox based streaming stick (think Chromecast with more features) that was funded in about mid-November and was to have a ship date of early Feb. I was a little hesitant to go for something with a 3 month delivery but at 2/$34 I figured I can wait. Well here comes the ship date after many months and they say they're adding all these additional features (good for backers right?) but with all the additional stuff and some delays in manufacturing it's now looking like August (maybe). Here's the product if you're interested: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/matchstick/matchstick-the-streaming-stick-built-on-firefox-os

That all being said, something like brew kettles....probably will have no issues or at the very worst a small delay if they sell massive numbers of units and you're at the end of the production line.
 
brewslinger said:
Looks pretty good to me. Anyone have any experience with Kickstarters and their likelihood of success?
Click to expand...


Participated in a few plus Other croedfundings. Most have been on time and better than expected. My only disappointment was the Brauler. Late plus not what was promised & they added a permanent Kickstarter logo to the product w/o asking! Frankly, I never opened the box & tossed it.
The Drink Tank is a superior product.

I'm curious about these MLT's. I'd like a 15 gal but the fact you cannot direct fire is problematic. I guess I could try a HERMS.
I'm also hesitant re the "quality" or lack thereof of Chinese SS. Also I don't care for the placement of ball valves, thermometers, etc.
they "look" really good but so did my ex!
 
First update is a good sign :) I wish they would have stayed with the off center port on the Mashtun, but that's just personal prefference.
 
I am new here but i see that you have finished your kickstarter campaign. I was wondering if there is a way to get your product or when and how I will be able to get your product.
 
cbarker777 said:
I am new here but i see that you have finished your kickstarter campaign. I was wondering if there is a way to get your product or when and how I will be able to get your product.
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Everything is currently available for pre-order at about a 20% discount from the retail price.

If you'd like to see the pre-order catalog, or if you just want to know when everything is available for direct purchase, send an email to [email protected].
 
ChapmanEquipment said:
Everything is currently available for pre-order at about a 20% discount from the retail price.

If you'd like to see the pre-order catalog, or if you just want to know when everything is available for direct purchase, send an email to [email protected].
Click to expand...

I saw your note about not getting notified if someone comments on the Kickstarter page, so thought I'd ping you here to try to get a response...

Saw your latest update that things should be shipping early but that the volume markings on the fermenters are wrong. A couple of other people have already commented on the Kickstarter page, but what does that mean for us? You're accepting the shipment like that from the manufacturer and passing them on to your backers?
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
I saw your note about not getting notified if someone comments on the Kickstarter page, so thought I'd ping you here to try to get a response...

Saw your latest update that things should be shipping early but that the volume markings on the fermenters are wrong. A couple of other people have already commented on the Kickstarter page, but what does that mean for us? You're accepting the shipment like that from the manufacturer and passing them on to your backers?
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Sounds like it. Makes me glad I didn't back this. Totally unacceptable IMO.

"Hey, we just said that there would be volume markings. We didn't say they would be correct!"
 
douglasbarbin said:
Sounds like it. Makes me glad I didn't back this. Totally unacceptable IMO.

"Hey, we just said that there would be volume markings. We didn't say they would be correct!"
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Yeah I didn't want to start like a mob with pitchforks or anything, but that is pretty lame. I'm not sure why they would take delivery of the goods when they were not manufactured as specified.

I mean I understand that having off volume markings is not the end of the world, but having wrong ones is actually worse than just not having them at all. At least I could add my own if I wanted.

The correct thing to do would be to allow the initial backers to exchange their V1 models for V2 models with correct markings when those come in I think. Or you could just keep the V1s, sell those in the discount bin, and ship proper V2s when those are available.
 
I'm hoping it just wasn't worded clearly. I'll be curious to see what the response to the question is.
 
We are talking about being 1 liter off for 5 gal. And 2 liter off for 10 gal. Everyone can decide for themselves how big of a deal that is. (Hint 1 liter in 5g is not significant)
 
Isn't the volume more important in the kettle than the fermenter? I think I lost nearly a quarter of a gallon to blowoff in my last robust porter ferment.
 
You guys are missing the point of a kick starter. By participating in one you are funding an enterprise getting off the ground and for your support you get a sweet deal on a beta product from the first production run. There are too many variables for there not to be bumps.
Steve and his crew have been gracious in letting the crowd make suggestions on design details and have provided more info on the financials than many others. I commend them on it, that and they have owned their problems, again good on them.
I never trust sight gauges and consider most to be approximate at best.
I for one don't want a replacement that will push delivery out. I wanted a fermenter not a calibrated sight gauge.
Thanks Steve I am happy you are raising the bar for other kick starters.

-timur
 
I'm torn. I agree that we should have some understanding if the product isn't 100% up to specifications since it is indeed a kickstarter and we are getting these products for a very deep discount.

But I would certainly appreciate him throwing in a growler or some schwag to say "sorry for the screw up" "use these products with our company logo to help advertise for us"

It would be a nice gesture
 
Frostbrewer said:
I'm torn. I agree that we should have some understanding if the product isn't 100% up to specifications since it is indeed a kickstarter and we are getting these products for a very deep discount.

But I would certainly appreciate him throwing in a growler or some schwag to say "sorry for the screw up" "use these products with our company logo to help advertise for us"

It would be a nice gesture
Click to expand...

That would probably go a long way towards earning some goodwill.

You see it as everyone getting the products for a very deep discount; the other side of it is that Chapman is getting a very cheap loan that he is paying back with (sometimes not-to-spec) products. It's a much better deal for him than a traditional loan with interest from a bank.

That being said, I guess it's not the end of the world if the fermenters are marked incorrectly, but it has to be a bit disappointing to fund someone and then they immediately screw up the entire first batch.
 
douglasbarbin said:
That would probably go a long way towards earning some goodwill.

You see it as everyone getting the products for a very deep discount; the other side of it is that Chapman is getting a very cheap loan that he is paying back with (sometimes not-to-spec) products. It's a much better deal for him than a traditional loan with interest from a bank.

That being said, I guess it's not the end of the world if the fermenters are marked incorrectly, but it has to be a bit disappointing to fund someone and then they immediately screw up the entire first batch.
Click to expand...


Yeah. I'm definitely disappointed. And I didn't think about the intrest free loan aspect. Thats a great point. Hopefully chapman will come through with "something" to make it right.
 
It isn't a loan. You have no promise of being reimbursed. This is more of a donation that gets rewarded. Instead of getting something for less you now want something more for nothing?
I was excited about getting two Chapman fermenters for the price of one SS Brewing SS Bucket and I still am.
 
Well it certainly isn't in any way an issue of something more for nothing. I gave them 500 bucks. Am I excited for the product? absolutely. Should the people who initially gave you an investment get a sub par product because your manufacturer made an error? certainly not.
 
Folks seem pretty divided on this one. I guess from my POV I look at Kickstarters as pre-purchasing items and getting a reasonable discount from the actual retail price. It's really not a loan, but without pre-purchasing the things the company would have had to used a traditional loan or had some investors to get the cash to make the initial batch of product.

To me I really prefer to have volume markings in my fermenters as I setup my batches to target the fermenter volume, and I also like to know how much beer I'm going to be putting into my bottling bucket before I mix up my priming sugar. So for me accurate fermenter volume markings are pretty important, and I've added markings to the fermenters I've purchased that did not have them. Not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, as it's not like the markings are terribly off, and you can easily adjust for the error.

In the end I'm still happy with my purchase, and I'm glad that it's shipping early. I'll have to wait until it shows up and I've got to kick the tires a bit before I'll know if I will be a repeat customer.
 
I'm glad to see that there is a conversation going on about this inaccuracy of the fermenter measurements. And I agree, this does seem pretty lame. So I want to explain more of the process and why we made the decision we did.

Before I get into that, I want to remind all of our Kickstarter supporters that if you would like your money back, we will give you a full refund at any time, for any reason.

So how did it happen?

First off, this error occurred because the fermenter design was changed from a straight design to a tapered one. The change slightly increased the height of the fermenter, and the volume markings were affected more than expected. We recalculated the markings and adjusted them in the design. If we had remade the prototype and tested it again would have added at least another month to production. We thought the calculations were accurate. So we gave the go ahead to mass produce.

When I visited the factory, I was surprised to see that the markings were still inaccurate. This was because of a slight miscalculation. The tapered design means the spacing between each gallon is slightly less as the markings go up. It's fairly difficult to calculate accurately. Thinking back on it, we shouldn't have bothered to calculate the markings at all. Instead, we should have just physically measured them and copied the markings from one to all of the fermenters. But hindsight is 20-20.

So why didn't we just tell them to fix it after we caught the mistake?

First, the bulk of our order is fermenters, and production was 90% complete. Second, pressings would be practically impossible to redo. So the only option would be to scrap all of the fermenters and do it all over again. Although we were disappointed, we decided against it. There were many factors we considered. Here are some of the things that we discussed while making this decision.

1. The accuracy of our fermenters is about 5% off. Most plastic bucket fermenters are even less accurate, having measurements up to 10% off.

Examples:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=45693
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=404807
http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/201r5g/does_anybody_actually_know_how_much_water_they/

2. The functionality of the fermenter will not be impacted. In our Kickstarter update we showed a group of fermenters which were rejected. They were rejected because of issues such as scratches, cracks, failed welds, or cosmetic defects. Most of these things affect the functionality of the product. Inaccurate measurements are bothersome, but don't affect how well the product functions. In other words, it won't affect the quality of your beer.

3. You will always need to make adjustments in your fermenter for the trub/yeast cake. This is just adding one more adjustment to make.

These aren't excuses for having inaccurate markings, but they are things to keep in mind, not only for our products, but for all brewing equipment. I've seen 6-and-a-half gallon fermenters being sold as 8 gallon fermenters. I've seen companies selling defective kettles with no option for returns. Most business models are based on telling the customer what they want to hear and then dealing with the backlash when they realize they were lied to. These companies do this to inflate sales numbers without concern for the long term reputation of their company. I haven't met a homebrewer that I didn't like. So I think homebrewers deserve better than that.

So where do we go from here?

As I've said before, we are a no BS group of brewers. We made a mistake, and we are owning up for it. We aren't going to try and weasel are way out by keeping quiet and hoping nobody notices. If you want a refund, that's up to you. We would rather give out refunds than pretend everything is perfect. This is because we are more concerned about being trustworthy than becoming a high volume distributor.

The worst Kickstarters out there will treat the money as donations, and once it's in their hands, they feel no obligation to the supporters. The majority of Kickstarters will put on a good face, and treat their Kickstarter supporters like regular customers. But we want to be better than that. We want to include our supporters in the production process. We want to present our business model with transparency. And we certainly don't want anyone to feel like they got cheated out of their money.

Our Kickstarter supporters are more than just customers to us. So if the inaccuracy of the fermenters is a dealbreaker for you, then we'll give you your money back. And even if you do get a refund, we are still grateful that you took the plunge in the first place and helped us get to this point.

As Frostbrewer said, it would be nice if we could throw in a little extra gift as a sort of apology. We are thinking about ways to do that. But right now we are more concerned with giving our supporters something we hope is a little more valuable, honest answers and respect.

So I'll keep up posting in this thread when I can. And if you have any individual concerns that you would like addressed, feel free to send me an email or give us a call.
 
Honest answers and respect.

Transparency and a full refund if needed?

Growler? Nah man. I'm good. You're going above and beyond what I expexted from a kickstarter so all I have to say is thanks.
 

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