Kettle Hops: Bagged vs. Loose | exBEERiment Results!

[Brulosopher]

Whether or not to bag one's hops during the boil is a dilemma every brewer experiences, with some claiming it has a negative impact on hop utilization while others swear it contributes to better beer by reducing the amount of hop matter that makes it to the fermentor. Curious of the actual impact, we put it to the test in this exBEERiment and even sent samples off to Oregon BrewLab for IBU analysis. Results are in!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/03/21/kettle-hops-loose-vs-bagged-exbeeriment-results/

 

[bobeer]

Interesting experiment! I don't use hop bags either. Just another expense, although minimal, the bags still cost money, which I don't think are worth the extra cost and effort. It would be cool to see if those hop spiders are the same as using a bag or if it's close enough to just tossing them in.

I always think it's great when people like a homebrewed clone recipe to the commercial version. I did a blind tasting to deschutes fresh squeezed ipa a few weeks ago and we all agreed the clone was better. Then I looked at the bottling date on the real thing and found it was 6 weeks old. The clone was only on gas for about 2 weeks. I'm wondering if that's why we liked the clone over the real thing. It would be fun to do a side by side comparison of a clone and a commercial beer that were both the same age. Cheers to experimenting!

 

[bradleyhunt]

Dude,

Awesome experiment, and very informational!

Saw you're in Fresno. I grew up in Lemoore and went to Fresno State. I miss CA.

 

[Hanglow]

Nice experiment, the most interesting thing is the IBU measurments

tinseth is crap for predicting true beer ibus. I've seen other tests where the predicted IBUs were massively over what the the actual measured ibus are. The main problem with the prediction being out is when you are trying to copy/get close to beers where you know what the true IBUs are but don't know the exact recipe, or what sort of utilisation the professional brewer of that beer is getting.
Eg, if you were to try and make a Boddingtons clone of their famous 1970s beer, you'd probably need the tinseth IBUs to be about 55 or maybe more to get the requisite 35 ibus that were in that beer, which gave it such an assertive bitterness. You wouldn't get close using the current formulas available

 

[Brulosopher]

Interesting experiment! I don't use hop bags either. Just another expense, although minimal, the bags still cost money, which I don't think are worth the extra cost and effort. It would be cool to see if those hop spiders are the same as using a bag or if it's close enough to just tossing them in.

I always think it's great when people like a homebrewed clone recipe to the commercial version. I did a blind tasting to deschutes fresh squeezed ipa a few weeks ago and we all agreed the clone was better. Then I looked at the bottling date on the real thing and found it was 6 weeks old. The clone was only on gas for about 2 weeks. I'm wondering if that's why we liked the clone over the real thing. It would be fun to do a side by side comparison of a clone and a commercial beer that were both the same age. Cheers to experimenting!

Definitely planning SS mesh vs. nothing and SS vs. bag xBmts.

I'll only buy commercial beer if it's relatively fresh, in the case of the Mirror Pond, it had been bottled about 3 weeks prior to our tasting.

Dude,

Awesome experiment, and very informational!

Saw you're in Fresno. I grew up in Lemoore and went to Fresno State. I miss CA.

Right on! Fresno is a city people love to hate, but I ****ing love it here.

Nice experiment, the most interesting thing is the IBU measurments

tinseth is crap for predicting true beer ibus. I've seen other tests where the predicted IBUs were massively over what the the actual measured ibus are. The main problem with the prediction being out is when you are trying to copy/get close to beers where you know what the true IBUs are but don't know the exact recipe, or what sort of utilisation the professional brewer of that beer is getting.
Eg, if you were to try and make a Boddingtons clone of their famous 1970s beer, you'd probably need the tinseth IBUs to be about 55 or maybe more to get the requisite 35 ibus that were in that beer, which gave it such an assertive bitterness. You wouldn't get close using the current formulas available

I actually used Rager, though the difference between Tinseth and it was only a few IBU, while the difference between those and the oft ignored Garetz formula was pretty drastic-- and Garetz was within a couple points of the measured IBU. Interesting.

 

[Spartan1979]

I don't think it matters what formula you use, as long as you just use one consistently. You'll get a good feel for what you want your beers to be.

Regarding the experiment, I have to wonder if the results would be the same on a big hopstand. I recently made a beer with about 10 ounces of hops. I let them float freely but I put a bag in the fermenting bucket and ran the hose through that to filter out most of the hops. You used less than three in your exbeeriment. Would there be difference with 10?

 

[Brulosopher]

I don't think it matters what formula you use, as long as you just use one consistently. You'll get a good feel for what you want your beers to be.

Regarding the experiment, I have to wonder if the results would be the same on a big hopstand. I recently made a beer with about 10 ounces of hops. I let them float freely but I put a bag in the fermenting bucket and ran the hose through that to filter out most of the hops. You used less than three in your exbeeriment. Would there be difference with 10?

100% agree with your first point.

100% plan to test your second point.

 

[slym2none]

Heh - I got my "hashtag" on the Brulosopher's site!

 

[blizz81]

Definitely planning SS mesh vs. nothing and SS vs. bag xBmts.

Yeah, I'm curious what the difference would be on a large-ish SS mesh. I'd surely think the perceptible difference wouldn't result from the presence of the hops from the point of fermentation and on.

 

[blizz81]

Also, there's an "extra credit" exBeeriment available here in terms of hop presence / IBU on a normally-fermented beer vs. a yeast immobilization-fermented beer... :x


(I attempted to do the informal version of this test, but must have failed on my gastronomy, as my magic yeast beans more or less ruptured / didn't do a good job containing the yeast)

 

[eagle83]

. I let them float freely but I put a bag in the fermenting bucket and ran the hose through that to filter out most of the hops.

I do something similar. I put a 5 gallon paint strainer in my bottling bucket. Clip the top of the bag to the top of the bottling bucket using binder clips. I siphon directly into the paint strainer, and situate my fermenting bucket under the bottling bucket with the spigot open. I'm sure it aerates the wort a bit too.

To the OP. Tell me how you are filling your kegs in this picture. I assume you attach to the liquid side of the keg. Are you just releasing the gas as it fills? I had never thought of connecting directly to the keg like this, and I'm interested in trying it.

 

[Brulosopher]

Heh - I got my "hashtag" on the Brulosopher's site!

I'm confused by this... but it gave me a new shirt idea

I do something similar. I put a 5 gallon paint strainer in my bottling bucket. Clip the top of the bag to the top of the bottling bucket using binder clips. I siphon directly into the paint strainer, and situate my fermenting bucket under the bottling bucket with the spigot open. I'm sure it aerates the wort a bit too.

To the OP. Tell me how you are filling your kegs in this picture. I assume you attach to the liquid side of the keg. Are you just releasing the gas as it fills? I had never thought of connecting directly to the keg like this, and I'm interested in trying it.

I use pin lock kegs. For about $2, you can buy a little plastic attachment for the gas post that locks on and holds the poppet down. I put that on, attached the siphon to the liquid post, blow, and go. Super simple.

 

[raysmithtx]

For about $2, you can buy a little plastic attachment for the gas post that locks on and holds the poppet down. I put that on, attached the siphon to the liquid post, blow, and go. Super simple.

I have looked and looked for such a device since I don't like leaving the lid off the keg while transferring. Would you mind sharing where you bought them?

 

[tennesseean_87]

I'm in the free hop in boil, but use a paint strainer in my fermentation bucket camp. I was planning on using a hop spider or bag so as to avoid any sanitation issues with the bag. Maybe I will let them go free and just recirc through the bag when I sanitize my cfc.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have looked and looked for such a device since I don't like leaving the lid off the keg while transferring. Would you mind sharing where you bought them?

You can just stick an loose, unconnected QD on the post. That will take care of venting the keg.

To stay on topic, thank you for the exBEERiment! I've been curious about the effects of a hop sack (basket) for a long time.

I used to let hops swim freely in the kettle, but went to roomy, fine mesh voile hop sacks, to keep all hop pulp contained. It allows me to recirculate long with a full stream of wort without clogging up the mesh filter over the diptube. The plate chiller demands some sort of hop filter in the system.

Changed dynamics:
The way I see it, the hop sack (or basket) changes the action of the wort on the suspended hop pulp. Even if the wort flows freely through the mesh, it never reaches 212°F deep inside, where wort velocity has dropped to almost nil. To counteract stagnant wort inside the hop sack(s) I "massage" them with the kettle spoon every few minutes to coax more wort flow through, creating more surface action inside and hopefully better extraction. A dunking motion could achieve similar wort replenishment inside the bag (basket).

 

[slym2none]

I'm confused by this... but it gave me a new shirt idea

Please let me know when you implement said idea - I'll have to buy one, of course!

 

[okbecker]

As always Great Job! I happen to prefer my free range hops....

 

[EcuPirate07]

Great timing. I'm doing a brew tomorrow and have always bagged, and since its an IPA I thought about just throwing them in but still have reservations about clogging my counter flow chiller, I do have a dip tube with a false bottle.

 

[Brulosopher]

I have looked and looked for such a device since I don't like leaving the lid off the keg while transferring. Would you mind sharing where you bought them?

Here you go

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/pin-lock-depressor/homebrew-kegging?a=brulosophy

 

[FarmerTed]

Great timing. I'm doing a brew tomorrow and have always bagged, and since its an IPA I thought about just throwing them in but still have reservations about clogging my counter flow chiller, I do have a dip tube with a false bottle.

I have a Shirron plate chiller, and it does not handle particulate matter well in my hands, so I use a hop spider. Be prepared to reverse flow on your chiller and also to swear a lot if you try to just throw the hops in. Others may have had better experiences than me, but I'll never do it again.

 

[EcuPirate07]

I have a Shirron plate chiller, and it does not handle particulate matter well in my hands, so I use a hop spider. Be prepared to reverse flow on your chiller and also to swear a lot if you try to just throw the hops in. Others may have had better experiences than me, but I'll never do it again.

Everything turned out great. I had about 5ozs of hops in there and had no issues. It might have helped that I whirlpooled before hand. But it looked like the false bottom contained everything

 

[A2HB]

I use bags because it makes cleanup easier for me.