Keg Force Carbing Methods Illustrated

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stamandster said:
What about setting to final desired PSI and rocking keg around until it won't absorb anymore co2?
Click to expand...

This would work great, although towards the upper level of your carb goal, it will be much slower due to a lower differential pressure. It should get you close, though. There's some evidence that extended rocking could use up some of the compounds that influence head and head retention, but I'm not sure how much it really matters. I haven't seen a real definitive answer.
 
Hmm... can we do this by weight??

If my math's correct

2.5 volumes co2 for 5 gallons beer @ 32f = 12.5 gallons co2 @ 32f
1.5 vol co2 for 5 g beer @ 32f = 7.5 g co2 @ 32f

measurement -> 1cf = 7.480 US gallons OR 1 US Gal = .1336cf
measurement c02 -> 1cf = .1144lb OR 1lb = 8.741 CF

7.5g gallons co2 for 1.5 vol co2 for 5g beer = about 1cf or .1144lb

Ref: 20lb co2 = 174.82cf

Sooo... 12.5 gallons co2 = 2.5 vol co2 for 5g beer @ 32f = 0.1906lb

Shouldn't we be doing all this by weight!? Oh, I didn't account for head space.

Speaking of head space, if you could properly figure this out you could probably pressurize (given its less than the blow off) all your co2 at once. If you pressurize and weigh the keg instead of the co2 tank, just turn the psi up until you gain the required weight (might be too high for either your tubung or blowoff) :) then rock to equalize or wait. Or hook everything up and tare the keg, put it on desired final co2 rock untill you gain weight.

Oh and to figure out the volume of the beer in your keg you'll have to do some math. It's explained in detail in this PDF from New London Home Brew Club.

http://newlondonbrewclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Filling-Kegs-By-Weight-Mike-Branam.pdf

I'd go off of this for your water weights to temperature
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-density-specific-weight-d_595.html

And water specific gravity to temperature
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-temperature-specific-gravity-d_1179.html

Don't forget to take into account beer temperature for your FG!

Just adding some more references so that I can compile a better equation (seems he's done most of the work for us) http://www.brainlubeonline.com/GasLawsBeer.html
 
Basic question... I kegged for the first time yesterday, turned my regulator to 11 PSI, and my keg is being kept cool inside my kegerator. I am worried - yes I know RDWHAHB* - that my dip tube might clog, as the siphon didn't go as great as it could (good cold crash, bad mishandling that disturbed trub, clogged siphon) and am dry-hopping in the keg (in a nylon bag, but the floss meant to suspend it got cut when sealing the keg). I decided to connect the liquid out and try pouring some out. It is pouring incredibly slowly. I am wondering, is this because the keg is not yet carbonated and/or connecting the liquid out messed with the pressure? Or is it more likely due to being clogged up?

*Oh, and as far as RDWHAHB goes - the flat, very hazy glass I poured smelled incredible and tasted decent. So maybe I'm not worried, just concerned :mug:
 
Assuming the Out post/poppet and the disconnect are playing nice together and both are opening fully, it's likely you have a partial clog somewhere, or the dip tube is sucking in the hop bag.

You can shut off the CO2, released the head pressure in the keg (either using the manual PRV in the lid if you have one or remove the gas QD and push down on the In/gas post poppet). Then remove the Out post and the Out dip tube and flush them both clear. Sanitize the dip tube and you can use it to fish the hop bag up to the surface and hopefully snatch the floss. Then sanitize everything and reinstall, and cross your fingers ;)

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the reply, day_tripper! When I vent the gas, am I removing all the CO2, or just from the headspace? As I have only been dry-hopping for two days, I'd rather wait to remove the hops, but if that means I will be losing a week (or more) of carbonation time, maybe I'll remove them earlier.
 
You're just releasing the head space pressure so you don't get a beer shower, the beer won't lose appreciable carbonation as long as its temperature doesn't rise...

Cheers!
 
Thanks again for the advice, day_tripper. Yesterday I removed the hop bag, cleared out the dip tube and poppet, which were indeed very gunked up. When I put it all back together, however, it got clogged again just a few ounces in. I had read about people transferring from one keg to another, but I don't have another keg, so I transferred to a bucket, sealed the bucket, cleaned the keg, then transferred back to the keg. Yes, I introduced much more oxygen than I would like, but it did the trick! The beer is pouring well and is pretty tasty! Cheers! :mug:
 
Love this thread.

Just started kegging after 1.5 years bottling. I'm doing the set and forget method - 13 psi at 41 degrees for 10 days (3 gallon kegs). My friend who has been kegging for years pointed me to two links that state that set and forget carbing can be done in as little as three days or 5-10, respectively. He said that's his experience as well. I'll paste the two links below. What do you all think of this? It's contrary to everything else I've read regarding set and forget on HBT.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1601-what-is-the-proper-way-to-force-carbonate-a-keg-of-homebrew

http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2011/08/getting-carbonation-right-with-kegs/
 
Ilan34 said:
My friend who has been kegging for years pointed me to two links that state that set and forget carbing can be done in as little as three days or 5-10, respectively. He said that's his experience as well. I'll paste the two links below. What do you all think of this? It's contrary to everything else I've read regarding set and forget on HBT.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1601-what-is-the-proper-way-to-force-carbonate-a-keg-of-homebrew

http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2011/08/getting-carbonation-right-with-kegs/
Click to expand...

Regarding the first link (Brew Your Own), the key thing about the "3 days" is the low temperature used (40 F) and the shaking. Even with those conditions, based on my experience, more than "3 days" is required. The second link (Northern Brewer) seems more realistic, in my opinion. It suggests leaving the pressure for 5-10 days. I suppose it depends on how much you shake the keg during that time. With no shaking, a week to ten days seems reasonable. With moderate shaking, a minimum of 5 days seems reasonable.
 
Kegged for the first time today. I gotta ask myself "What took me so long"?

10641049_915485145147683_2552167836378188717_n.jpg
 
Ilan34 said:
Love this thread.

Just started kegging after 1.5 years bottling. I'm doing the set and forget method - 13 psi at 41 degrees for 10 days (3 gallon kegs). My friend who has been kegging for years pointed me to two links that state that set and forget carbing can be done in as little as three days or 5-10, respectively. He said that's his experience as well. I'll paste the two links below. What do you all think of this? It's contrary to everything else I've read regarding set and forget on HBT.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1601-what-is-the-proper-way-to-force-carbonate-a-keg-of-homebrew

http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2011/08/getting-carbonation-right-with-kegs/
Click to expand...


Mr Wizard is quoted as saying: "A batch of homebrew is small and the headspace pressure will equilibrate with the beer in about 3 days." in the first link. With careful reading, it's obvious that this was not in reference to elevated pressures or shaking.This statement is wrong and I can only assume it was meant to say 3 weeks. It takes 3 weeks for most beers to equilibrate at chart pressure. It reminds me of the scene in My Cousin Vinnie where he questions if the laws of physic cease to exist in the guy's kitchen where grits can be cooked in 5 minutes. If someone were to press Mr. Wizard about it and it turns out that he stands behind 3 days, I'd recommend not reading that column anymore.

The NB text is definitely closer at 5-10 days, but it's still not quite there yet. The reason people would find this to be true is that in the range of 5-10 days, you're probably at 90% of the dissolved CO2 level that 3 weeks would actually get you to. It's pretty hard to perceived a difference between 2.2 volumes and 2.55 volumes so even if the chart says 2.55 and you taste at day 8 when it's at around 2.2, you think, hmm, well that's carbed up.
 
Thanks, Bobby, that all makes sense. Coincidentally, I was reading the Best of BYO Guide to Kegging today, and that exact answer from Mr. Wizard is repeated verbatim in the magazine. So if it's a misprint, BYO is selling that opinion for 10 bucks!
 
If you pressure up on the tank for "X" number of days, then release the pressure and wait a couple of hours.

Slowly increase the pressure from zero until you hear gas going into the keg.

I believe this is the approximate gas pressure the beer has at that time.

I usually go 24 hours at 30 psi @ 35 F
Drop to 11-12 psi for 3 weeks.
Perfectly carbonated.
I have also done the shake method, but I'm not a big fan.
 
Not sure what to do next. I let keg cool to 45deg and cranked psi to 30 for 24 hrs. Next day dropped it to 20 psi for another 24 hrs. Day 3 I purged to sample at 12 psi, got mostly foam. Let sit in fridge another day and now beer line only drips foam. I turned up the serving pressure to 20 psi and got mostly foam. Beer seems carbed but my line (4-5ft) is mostly foam. Is there a do-over procedure? I need the beer ready in. 3 days for a party. Any advice appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Brewer3401 said:
I completely agree with the chart on page 1, as I have done all 3 versions.
I ferment ales 67 F for 7 days, raise temp to 72 F for 2 days, add gelatin and crash to around 35 F.
I wait 6 weeks until beer is brilliant (this is for competition only - if not, go 3-4 weeks)
Rack to keg, pressure up to 30 psi for 24 hours, burp keg and set to 11 psi and let go for 2+ weeks.
Beer is good - real good.
The chart on page 1 hit it right on the head.
Click to expand...

I know this is a resurrection, but I'm only working through this thread now....

Can I ask [OFF-TOPIC ALERT] about that cold-crashing??? I cold crash religiously and I LOVE how clear the beer gets, but I only crash for 3-5 days. Are you seriously cold crashing in the fermenter for 3-4 weeks??? If so, do you really notice the difference between 3-4 days and 3-4 weeks?
 
I'm new to kegging, only been through 4 so fat, but here's how I've been doing it with good results. From the ferm to the keg, no cold crash. 40psi, lay the keg down long ways so the gas fitting is on the bottom, shake back and forth with short strokes for 10mins. In the kegerator for 12hrs, back out and 10 mins of shaking again. Back in kegerator for 12 more he's, bleed off, set to 8psi for serving. It's pretty close then but gets better after a day or 2.
 
I just started kegging myself. I have two batches kegged at the moment. I have a SS dual Perlick tap tower, 10 feet of 1/4" line per keg, each running up the tower through copper tubing to keep the lines cold. I use an stc1000 to control the temp and keep it at around 45*. After fermentation is completed, I crash the batch at 35* for about 4 days, transfer to keg, and put the gas to it at serving pressure. I have found that the set and forget method works the best. No sense in rushing science, just let it happen. Most beers I brew for kegging require roughly 2.5-2.7 volumes, so I have my regulator set at 18psi. Perfect pours every time.
 
I really wanted to have my Coconut Porter on tap for Thanksgiving so I kegged it one week earlier than originally intended (ie. one week with the coconut in the fermenter as opposed to two) and kegged it this past Sunday. Did 30psi for 30 hours, purged, and set to 10 psi until this morning. Perfect carbonation! And, my coconut porter came out awesome! Perfect balance of chocolate and coconut with a roasted finish. Such a great start to the day. I'm still a set and forget fan, but I'll say thanks so much to those of you on here as this place is where I learned the better method (non-shaking) of burst carbing and it sure delivers when in a pinch. It was the thread by Bobby_M that I got the info from :mug:


Rev.

20141127_113419.jpg
 
So slow and steady method cold crash 38 Deg. then keg.

Apply CO2 18 psi at 38 Deg. for how long?
 
I have been as confused as the rest of you about "burst" carbonation. This past week I had two corny kegs I needed to bring with me to a comp in North Carolina. I had cold crashed for 3 days and with only 3 days remaining before bottling I did this:
  • 26 psi and roll on the floor for 90 seconds
  • Rest for 48 hours, test (not carbonated enough)
  • 26 psi and roll on the floor for 60 more seconds
  • Rest for 24 hours

I was doing both a Double IPA and a Coffee Stout. The Stout spent 3 weeks in a Rum Barrel so figuring on less CO2 in solution to begin with, I used the same approach for both and very satisfied with the head and carbonation level on both!

2014-12-05 18.43.52.jpg
 
This may have been covered but browsing through 79 pages of posts isn't in the cards at this moment. I kegged for the first time last night. Kegged at 40 degrees and have at 10-11 PSI to reach what I hope is 2.3 volumes of CO2 for my Belgian IPA. My question is how much CO2 would this typically require? I hooked up a brand new 5 lb CO2 tank last night and there was a massive drop, to almost "order more gas" status when I checked it this morning. I leak checked all my connections 2 times over and the keg came pressurized so I know it's good. Even put keg lube on the lid for good measure. Is it possible to use almost 5 lbs of CO2 for a 5 gallon keg? Or do I more than likely have a slow leak somewhere. Any info would much appreciated. Cheers.
 
cheddarhed3 said:
This may have been covered but browsing through 79 pages of posts isn't in the cards at this moment. I kegged for the first time last night. Kegged at 40 degrees and have at 10-11 PSI to reach what I hope is 2.3 volumes of CO2 for my Belgian IPA. My question is how much CO2 would this typically require? I hooked up a brand new 5 lb CO2 tank last night and there was a massive drop, to almost "order more gas" status when I checked it this morning. I leak checked all my connections 2 times over and the keg came pressurized so I know it's good. Even put keg lube on the lid for good measure. Is it possible to use almost 5 lbs of CO2 for a 5 gallon keg? Or do I more than likely have a slow leak somewhere. Any info would much appreciated. Cheers.
Click to expand...

Shame on you for not wanting to read this whole thread. ;)

Did you force carbonate the keg by rocking it for 10 minutes until it took up no more gas? Sounds like you just connected gas, which will take a week to carbonate.

No, you can carbonate and serve at least 10 kegs from a 5# cylinder. The "full" gauge drops quickly from full to around the middle, but should stay there for pretty much the rest of time. Then the last bit goes fast again.

You got a leak.

Added:
You can weight your bottle with regulator, hoses and other stuff attached when it's full. Then again when needed or to monitor how much it has used. If it drops down by several ounces within a few hours, you know something is wrong.

Spray a soap solution (or Starsan) around all the fittings and connectors. Check each one carefully. Is there a washer in the big nut that connects to the tank?

How about the valve on the tank? It should be all the way open or all the way closed, never one turn.
 
Last edited:
Definitely check for leaks like mentioned above everytime you refill your CO2. It's just good practice.

If your regulator is inside your fridge at 35-40 degrees then the quantity gauge is almost useless. That gauge works on pressure and will give you a false reading at temps that low. I just had my tank refilled and my needle is sitting on the "order more gas" line. The only way to get an accurate reading on the quantity of CO2 left in the tank is by weighing it. Like mentioned above.
 
s_barrows2 said:
Definitely check for leaks like mentioned above everytime you refill your CO2. It's just good practice.

If your regulator is inside your fridge at 35-40 degrees then the quantity gauge is almost useless. That gauge works on pressure and will give you a false reading at temps that low. I just had my tank refilled and my needle is sitting on the "order more gas" line. The only way to get an accurate reading on the quantity of CO2 left in the tank is by weighing it. Like mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the heads up. I did another leak check and everything is good but after consulting Northern Brewer customer service he asked if the co2 tank was inside the keezer. When I told him it was he made the same comment that the gauge will always be off due to the temp change. Never would have thought about that. Live and learn!! Cheers and thanks for the help.:mug:
 
IslandLizard said:
Shame on you for not wanting to read this whole thread. ;)

Did you force carbonate the keg by rocking it for 10 minutes until it took up no more gas? Sounds like you just connected gas, which will take a week to carbonate.

No, you can carbonate and serve at least 10 kegs from a 5# cylinder. The "full" gauge drops quickly from full to around the middle, but should stay there for pretty much the rest of time. Then the last bit goes fast again.

You got a leak.

Added:
You can weight your bottle with regulator, hoses and other stuff attached when it's full. Then again when needed or to monitor how much it has used. If it drops down by several ounces within a few hours, you know something is wrong.

Spray a soap solution (or Starsan) around all the fittings and connectors. Check each one carefully. Is there a washer in the big nut that connects to the tank?

How about the valve on the tank? It should be all the way open or all the way closed, never one turn.
Click to expand...

Valve wasn't all the way open either....:mug:
 
cheddarhed3 said:
Thank you for the heads up. I did another leak check and everything is good but after consulting Northern Brewer customer service he asked if the co2 tank was inside the keezer. When I told him it was he made the same comment that the gauge will always be off due to the temp change. Never would have thought about that. Live and learn!! Cheers and thanks for the help.:mug:
Click to expand...

Glad it turned out to be a false alarm. But I'm serious about weighting that bottle, either bare or with the usual equipment attached to it. It is easier to re-weight it with all that stuff attached, I find removing and re-attaching the regulator a real pain.

Bare and full, it should be 5# higher than the Tare weight stamped into the shoulder.

Next time your bottle is empty, weight it before filling and right after.
 
cheddarhed3 said:
Thank you for the heads up. I did another leak check and everything is good but after consulting Northern Brewer customer service he asked if the co2 tank was inside the keezer. When I told him it was he made the same comment that the gauge will always be off due to the temp change. Never would have thought about that. Live and learn!! Cheers and thanks for the help.:mug:
Click to expand...

Pressure gauges are useless when you have a gas compressed to a liquid inside a tank. For this case the pressure of the gas is controlled by the temperature and nothing else. At a constant temperature, the pressure in the tank will be constant no matter how much liquid is present. The pressure will only change (drop) when the liquid is all gone.

Now it just turns out that the equilibrium pressure of CO2 gas over liquid at kegging temperatures is right about where those high pressure gauges are marked as "almost empty." Yooper likes to say that the best thing to do with the high pressure gauges is cover them up with duct/electrical tape.

And as noted previously, weighing is the only way to know how much CO2 is actually in the tank.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
Rev2010 said:
I really wanted to have my Coconut Porter on tap for Thanksgiving so I kegged it one week earlier than originally intended (ie. one week with the coconut in the fermenter as opposed to two) and kegged it this past Sunday. Did 30psi for 30 hours, purged, and set to 10 psi until this morning. Perfect carbonation! And, my coconut porter came out awesome! Perfect balance of chocolate and coconut with a roasted finish. Such a great start to the day. I'm still a set and forget fan, but I'll say thanks so much to those of you on here as this place is where I learned the better method (non-shaking) of burst carbing and it sure delivers when in a pinch. It was the thread by Bobby_M that I got the info from :mug:


Rev.
Click to expand...


Rev2010, that's some rock solid carbonation you have there on your porter....you can lay your beer on it's side and it doesn't spill! ;)
 
There is so much info in this thread.
I kegged last night and am going to let it sit at 35-40 deg until Saturday at 7-10 psi in the kegerator.
 
kXb said:
Rev2010, that's some rock solid carbonation you have there on your porter....you can lay your beer on it's side and it doesn't spill! ;)
Click to expand...

That's not the carbonation, that's me altering the laws of physics in my boredom. Weird though, I had it rotated and upright in GIMP but for some reason it still posted sideways. Dude, that beer was pure gold and my very first time formulating a Porter recipe. I've since named it "Most Triumphant Coconut Porter" - my beers will now be Bill & Ted themed. I actually just got the ingredients for a re-brew delivered last night, also going to give Northern's Kiwi Express IPA a try so that was the other batch in the box. :mug:


Rev.
 
Rev2010 I recently brewed a coco porter and was curious as to your technique of adding the coconut to the brew to achieve max coco flavor. I roasted 28 oz and added to secondary for 10 days on mine. Still waiting to transfer to keg and carbonate. What's your method for coconut?
 
Okay so I've been reading this for 2 days now and still can't find a definite answer it seems like everyone has a different way of doing it. I am new to kegging I just brewed a brown ale and ready for kegging. I'm trying to find out what would be the best and quickest way I don't want to force it but I don't want to wait neither I just want to get the best taste out of my beer. I read some things for it says to chill set to 30 psi roll it around for a minute or two put back in fridge for 24 hours blow off pressure then set the serving pressure. Then I've also read leave it at room temperature is 25 to 30 psi for 3 to 4 days then chill then serve. Then someone told me today put it on 25 psi chill it for 2 to 3 days chilled blow it off then set to pressure and enjoy. So can someone please just give me a straight answer on what is the best way to carbonate my beer and can you do this on all beers or is there only certain beer you can do this on whether it be the set it and forget it or force carbonate I just wanted to get the best taste out of my beer but then I also don't want to wait that long either. Thanks for all the help guys and gals
 
idtapit said:
Okay so I've been reading this for 2 days now and still can't find a definite answer it seems like everyone has a different way of doing it. I am new to kegging I just brewed a brown ale and ready for kegging. I'm trying to find out what would be the best and quickest way I don't want to force it but I don't want to wait neither I just want to get the best taste out of my beer. I read some things for it says to chill set to 30 psi roll it around for a minute or two put back in fridge for 24 hours blow off pressure then set the serving pressure. Then I've also read leave it at room temperature is 25 to 30 psi for 3 to 4 days then chill then serve. Then someone told me today put it on 25 psi chill it for 2 to 3 days chilled blow it off then set to pressure and enjoy. So can someone please just give me a straight answer on what is the best way to carbonate my beer and can you do this on all beers or is there only certain beer you can do this on whether it be the set it and forget it or force carbonate I just wanted to get the best taste out of my beer but then I also don't want to wait that long either. Thanks for all the help guys and gals
Click to expand...


The first thing you need to answer is what will your keg temp be when force carbing?
My kegs sit in my keezer at 4C. The method I use at this Temperature is 30psi for 36 hours (no rolling or shaking), relief pressure in keg and drop down to 12psi. I find that it still needs a day at 12psi to be fully carbed. 12psi is also my serving psi so no other adjustments are needed.
 
CRZ said:
The first thing you need to answer is what will your keg temp be when force carbing?
My kegs sit in my keezer at 4C. The method I use at this Temperature is 30psi for 36 hours (no rolling or shaking), relief pressure in keg and drop down to 12psi. I find that it still needs a day at 12psi to be fully carbed. 12psi is also my serving psi so no other adjustments are needed.
Click to expand...

Good question. What's a refrigerator usually at 38 - 40 degrees? I'm going to be keeping it in there.
 
idtapit said:
Okay so I've been reading this for 2 days now and still can't find a definite answer it seems like everyone has a different way of doing it. I am new to kegging I just brewed a brown ale and ready for kegging. I'm trying to find out what would be the best and quickest way I don't want to force it but I don't want to wait neither I just want to get the best taste out of my beer. I read some things for it says to chill set to 30 psi roll it around for a minute or two put back in fridge for 24 hours blow off pressure then set the serving pressure. Then I've also read leave it at room temperature is 25 to 30 psi for 3 to 4 days then chill then serve. Then someone told me today put it on 25 psi chill it for 2 to 3 days chilled blow it off then set to pressure and enjoy. So can someone please just give me a straight answer on what is the best way to carbonate my beer and can you do this on all beers or is there only certain beer you can do this on whether it be the set it and forget it or force carbonate I just wanted to get the best taste out of my beer but then I also don't want to wait that long either. Thanks for all the help guys and gals
Click to expand...

There isn't really one answer; they all work.

When I first saw this thread I went with the set and forget method. It seemed like a simple and surefire way to get the right carb level. I'm always uncomfortable following those who offer ways to rush things and add that they don't notice any difference--maybe their beer always sucks. I've been doing the set and forget for 2-3 years with no complaints (other than the wait, of course)

Anyway, my supply was dry and I wanted to bring my last beer with me when we visited the inlaws for the holidays. I put it up to 30 psi, rocked it, and put it in my keezer for about a day and a half, then leaked it and turned it down to serving pressure. I tasted it on day 4 or 5 and thought it was perfect. I'll do this every time now.

Whether you carb at room temp or serving temp just depends on what's available to you. I don't think there's any difference for carbonation purposes, pick warm or cold based on other factors. I cold crash my beer before transferring to a keg, so its already cold, and I put it right in my keezer. No reason to carb at room temp. But I wanted the beer to sit a bit longer at room temp for some other reason, or didn't have room in my keezer, then I'd go with room temp.
 

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