Keg C02 balance

[JMichael]

I have recently noticed after carbonating my beer in kegs I can pull two, maybe three, nicely carbonated beers. After that, I see a nice head on the beer but the carbonation levels and bubbles on the tongue seems flat.

My carbonating process usually consists of pushing C02 at 30 psi for 3 or 4 minutes and then back the pressure down back to 10 psi for 24 hours. After that, I'll bleed off all pressure and then set to serving pressure. I've also set the C02 to 25 psi for 24 hours and then backed it back down to 10 psi and bleed off the excess C02.

Following either of those methods I've noticed that after pouring two or three beers that the beer seems flat. There is definitely a head on the beer but the visible C02 bubbles are almost non-existent and the beer tastes almost flat.

What am I doing wrong? I can leave the C02 for days and I still get the same result. I'm guessing it has something to do with the keg C02 balance, or something.

Any suggestions?

 

[day_trippr]

The "burst carb" technique I've seen that seems to work consistently is chill to dispensing temperature, put on CO2 at 30 psi for 24 hours, then set to "chart pressure" for a week...

Cheers!

 

[JMichael]

The "burst carb" technique I've seen that seems to work consistently is chill to dispensing temperature, put on CO2 at 30 psi for 24 hours, then set to "chart pressure" for a week...

Cheers!

Yes, even if I leave it at a consistent level of 10 psi, after the initial burst, for a week I get the same result. It's almost as if the C02 is solid for a few beers but then it falls off.

 

[wsmith1625]

I burst carb at 25lbs for 24 hours with good results. Before I start carbing I make sure the beer is at serving temperature. If I cold crash, I'm ready to go the day I keg. If I don't, I leave it in the kegerator for a day before I start. I also shake the keg as I carb. Give it a few good shakes and listen for the co2 filling the keg. Then shake some more. Keep doing this until you don't hear any more co2 filling your keg. After 24 hours, drop the regulator to serving temperature and purge the keg to balance it. You should be good to go.

 

[bracconiere]

i'm not following "bleed off excess co2"?

NVM, i re-read it.....

but i burst carb by weight, and 3-4 minutes at 30psi, unless it's ice cold, and you shake it A LOT isn't going to be carbd...and the follow up 10psi for 24 hours wouldn't do it either...


especially if you 'bleed' the 30psi off....

 

[DuncB]

10 psi at 5 celsius is 2.3 vols, which is a reasonable carb level. But I'm not sure that you will get that vol of carbing after your initial methods you describe and hence your beer is undercarbed.
The gas above the beer takes time to dissolve into the beer. Are you measuring the pressure in the keg or your system ? Non return valves " steal " a few psi and mean the keg pressure is really lower than the pressure before the NRV.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, ime spring-loaded-ball type "check valves" induce 0.5~1 psi of resistance in the gas flow. I actually had to remove check valves in some of my manifolds to allow using 0.4 psi CO2 to back-fill fermenters during cold crashing as otherwise I couldn't get gas to flow past the checks...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

for science i tried to shake my slow and steady kegs in the kegerator at 10psi for 5 minutes, just hooked up yesterday..the scale didn't register a drop....so at 10 psi going to take some time, a lot more then a day...

 

[DuncB]

@day_trippr
I have a non return ball lock on the gas supply and then one on each keg so that fits with my losing a couple of psi in my setup. I think the inline regulator also doesn't read accurately ( damm small scale on it) but set to 12 psi the gauge downstream of it reads 15.5 psi.

 

[day_trippr]

Jeeze, that's a hella big drop. Imagine having one of those at your regulator output and a set of them on a gas beam. How the heck does one manage that without sticking gauges inside keezers etc? No bueno!

fwiw, I actually used my (0-15 psi) spunding gauge assembly to check the end-point pressure across all of my gas systems and all of my checks showed .5-1 psi of resistance...

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

@day_trippr did you use a male male connector to connect the spunding valve onto the end of each line?
That 15.5 psi is before the keg post NRV but after the supply non return and after the inline regulator.

 

[jerrylotto]

The best change I made is to pressurize the keg through the dip tube "liquid out connector" to 30-40 PSI and then cold crash. I repressurize when it gets down to below 38F. Carbon dioxide is more soluble in cold beer/water. After that point I try not to allow my keg to ever get higher than 38F. It stays that way for a couple of days and then I bleed out the extra pressure before I move it to the kegerator.

 

[tcarcieri]

I have recently noticed after carbonating my beer in kegs I can pull two, maybe three, nicely carbonated beers. After that, I see a nice head on the beer but the carbonation levels and bubbles on the tongue seems flat.

My carbonating process usually consists of pushing C02 at 30 psi for 3 or 4 minutes and then back the pressure down back to 10 psi for 24 hours. After that, I'll bleed off all pressure and then set to serving pressure. I've also set the C02 to 25 psi for 24 hours and then backed it back down to 10 psi and bleed off the excess C02.

Following either of those methods I've noticed that after pouring two or three beers that the beer seems flat. There is definitely a head on the beer but the visible C02 bubbles are almost non-existent and the beer tastes almost flat.

What am I doing wrong? I can leave the C02 for days and I still get the same result. I'm guessing it has something to do with the keg C02 balance, or something.

Any suggestions?

I solved this my investing in the Blichmann Quick Carb...I wouldn't think of doing any other type of carbonation anymore since that purchase.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Yes, even if I leave it at a consistent level of 10 psi, after the initial burst, for a week I get the same result. It's almost as if the C02 is solid for a few beers but then it falls off.

From the kegs to the taps, on my system, 11 foot lengths of 3/16" ID beer line are used for carbonating and pouring beers at 12 psi. The kegs are filled after cold crashing then carbonated at 30 psi for 24 hours after which I back the gauge off to 12 psi. Of course, for best results, you want to make sure there are no Co2 leaks in your system.

 

[SFC Rudy]

Read these two articles.

I use a flow meter to force carb as described here : Carbonating Options for Kegging - Brew Your Own

I use this meter. An added bonus is you can tell if you have a leak in your system
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072XHVVVQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Then do the math in this article for keg line length and serving pressure: A Balancing Act: How to Balance Your Home Draft System | American Homebrewers Association

Takes the guess work out and works.

 

[day_trippr]

@day_trippr did you use a male male connector to connect the spunding valve onto the end of each line?
That 15.5 psi is before the keg post NRV but after the supply non return and after the inline regulator.

My spunding/testing assembly has a gas post so I can plug it right into a ball lock gas QD thus measuring at the very end of the line...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

You're beer is probably not as carbonated as you think it is. Your methods are inexact.

The practical way to know what your keg is carbonated to is to put a pressure gauge (0-15psi works well) on a grey QD directly, snap it on to the gas post (read that pressure) and then come back in an hour and see if the pressure went down. If it stays the same, look at the chart and find the beer temp to know the volumes. If your beer is at 2.5 volumes but doesn't seem bubbly enough, you may be losing carbonation in the pour. It's a very common problem because many vendors of such equipment are not making good recommendations. You either need 10-12ft of typical 3/16" ID lines or 5-6 feet of the 4mm EVA barrier tubing.