Just some general beginner questions,

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ramegoa

Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Messages
15
Reaction score
0
Location
Hollywood
Hello all, I am a new homebrewer, were talking mr. beer new. After I read a lot of forums and seen a ton of tutorials, I have decided to upgrade. Just ordered my first 7.5 fermenter. As I was thinking of what I wanted my first 5 gallon batch to be, I came up with some questions.

1) Secondary or not? From what i have been reading, its mostly a matter of preference. I understand it is essential for aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit however it is generally not needed for straight up brews... Do I have that right?
2) The boil. At this time I don't have a kettle big enough for a full 6 gallon boil, nor do I have a stove that could handle it. Until situation improves, I will have to do a half size boil and top off with water. Is there any changes in the time (60 minute boil) or amounts of extract/grain/hops to use?

Those are my two top questions at this time. I am sure that there will be plenty more as I go... thanks in advance!
 
1) Secondary or not? From what i have been reading, its mostly a matter of preference. I understand it is essential for aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit however it is generally not needed for straight up brews... Do I have that right?

I don't recommend transferring to secondary. Only exceptions would be for fruit or aging very strong ales. I dry hop in primary after 7-10 days depending on SG.

2) The boil. At this time I don't have a kettle big enough for a full 6 gallon boil, nor do I have a stove that could handle it. Until situation improves, I will have to do a half size boil and top off with water. Is there any changes in the time (60 minute boil) or amounts of extract/grain/hops to use?

I'll have to defer on this. Never brewed with extract.
 
You are correct on secondary. It is preference and a hotly debated topic on here

Amounts of extract/grains are based on batch size, not boil size. Select your recipe, scale it to your desired batch size (this is a direct scale- meaning if recipe is for 2.5 gallons and uses 5 lbs of extract, to make a 5 gallon batch, you would use 10 lbs)

You can also look to brewing software which will do the conversions/calculations for you. Keep the questions coming!
 
Invest in some brewing software if you want some piece of mind on grain weights. I prefer beersmith, it allows you to edit the amount of boil water/top off water. I usually do 5.5 gallon batches with a 3.5 gallon boil. I chill my top off water and add to wort after boil to help chill the wort faster and have had no problems. The other suggestion I will make is only adding about half of your dme/lme for the full boil. I add the other half at flameout.
 
ramegoa said:
Hello all, I am a new homebrewer, were talking mr. beer new. After I read a lot of forums and seen a ton of tutorials, I have decided to upgrade. Just ordered my first 7.5 fermenter. As I was thinking of what I wanted my first 5 gallon batch to be, I came up with some questions.

1) Secondary or not? From what i have been reading, its mostly a matter of preference. I understand it is essential for aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit however it is generally not needed for straight up brews... Do I have that right?
2) The boil. At this time I don't have a kettle big enough for a full 6 gallon boil, nor do I have a stove that could handle it. Until situation improves, I will have to do a half size boil and top off with water. Is there any changes in the time (60 minute boil) or amounts of extract/grain/hops to use?

Those are my two top questions at this time. I am sure that there will be plenty more as I go... thanks in advance!

Always at least 60 minute boils! I've seen some recipes that call for longer but always at least 60 minutes. Also some advice on extract brewing... Get the boil going before adding extract, REMOVE FROM HEAT, add extract mix thoroughly and then start your boil again. This will prevent caramelizing and burned off flavors. I also prefer to do late addition brews where I add only half the extract at the beginning and the other half at flame out. It only needs 5 minutes over 180 degrees to pasteurize and it lightens the color of lighter beers and reduces the chance of caramelizing. I always secondary my beer, but there are a lot that don't...
 
1) Secondary or not? From what i have been reading, its mostly a matter of preference. I understand it is essential for aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit however it is generally not needed for straight up brews... Do I have that right?
They're not even necessary then either really. But yeah, it's a preference. Don't let people tell you what to do either way but, no, it isn't essential.

2) The boil. At this time I don't have a kettle big enough for a full 6 gallon boil, nor do I have a stove that could handle it. Until situation improves, I will have to do a half size boil and top off with water. Is there any changes in the time (60 minute boil) or amounts of extract/grain/hops to use?
Half size boils topped of with water is *great*. No change in time nor in ingredients.

Trick extract brewers are allowed to use. Combine the topping off and cooling process by using your topping off water to cool down your wort: Put chilled water (even ice if you want [*sanitary and sanitized* ice] if you want) into your fermenter to top off.
 
great info all, thanks... just got an e-mail saying my fermenter shipped hope to get it soon! Now to plan on what to make!
 
+1 on the brewing software. If you don't want to spend money on something, I use Brewtarget and it's free. I think BeerSmith gives you a trial period too(?), and it's very good. Either of those, or any of the other brewing programs out there, will help you with calculating IBU's based on how much water you are boiling. I also strongly recommend you do save 50-80% of the malt extract to add at flameout.
 
I'm going to buck the system and general public opinion and tell you to not bother with any software until after you've brewed a few batches and actually start to get specific questions about ingredients. It won't answer the truly newbie questions (like "what the heck am I doing") and there really aren't that many recipe concerns with the first few extract batches. (Oh, all right. Alpha acid questions... But by the time you actually figure out *what* you asking you'll figure it out on your own the first two times and it's only *then* that you can actually discover what you can do with the software.)

And like all software, nothing can give you any help if you don't know what to ask it in the first place nor know how to understand what it tells you.

But then again, don't let people tell you what to do one way or the other.
 
Hello all, I am a new homebrewer, were talking mr. beer new. After I read a lot of forums and seen a ton of tutorials, I have decided to upgrade. Just ordered my first 7.5 fermenter. As I was thinking of what I wanted my first 5 gallon batch to be, I came up with some questions.

1) Secondary or not? From what i have been reading, its mostly a matter of preference. I understand it is essential for aging, dry hopping, or adding fruit however it is generally not needed for straight up brews... Do I have that right?
2) The boil. At this time I don't have a kettle big enough for a full 6 gallon boil, nor do I have a stove that could handle it. Until situation improves, I will have to do a half size boil and top off with water. Is there any changes in the time (60 minute boil) or amounts of extract/grain/hops to use?

Those are my two top questions at this time. I am sure that there will be plenty more as I go... thanks in advance!

You can use secondary if you want. It is an old way of thinking that all beers need a secondary. About 3-4 weeks in primary is plenty long. Any longer than a month in primary I would transfer to secondary for bulk ageing.

The 60min boil is only for hop utilization. I would recommend at least a 5 gal kettle for brewing. I start with about 3.5 gal of water and end with 2.5-3 gal of wort post boil. I cool the wort to 75 degrees, after cold top off water my temp is around 65 degrees which is perfect for pitching yeast. Also I do agree with the late extract additions at the last 5 min or flame out.

You are correct on secondary. It is preference and a hotly debated topic on here

Really?? For the most part everybody agrees that a secondary is unecessary most of the time.
 
"Always at least 60 minute boils! "

"The 60min boil is only for hop utilization."

The point being that the boiling time depends solely on the recipe and will be the same for either full-volume boils and half-volume boils with absolutely no concerns are issues over boil size. Whether you are brewing a 90 minute IPA (where the hops are "bittered" for an extra half hour) or whether you are brewing something mild with no bittering hops at all (and therefore you only boil for 20 minutes) you do what the recipe say and you do not worry for a nano-second about the *size* of your boil.
 
Whether you are brewing a 90 minute IPA (where the hops are "bittered" for an extra half hour) or whether you are brewing something mild with no bittering hops at all (and therefore you only boil for 20 minutes)

I agree about what you are saying about the size of the boil having nothing to do with the duration. What I am saying is the boil duration is strictly for hop utilization. If there are no hops in the recipe then there is no need for a boil. Actually many mr beer kits do not have hops, and all you do is mix the HLME with hot water. That's it. Although I don't think there are recipes without any bittering hops. That would be hard to drink IMO. The exception would be recipes with HLME, like the mr beer kits.
 
Oh, I agree with you 100%. My point is that the OP didn't really ask anything about boiling time so there isn't really anything to say about boiling time.

Although, I imagine every new brewer should eventually figure out sooner better than later that boil time actually has nothing to do with cooking the extract or processing the grains but has only and everything to to with hop utilyzing as you said.

This, as you said, a 60 minute boil is a 60 minute boil simply and only because the first hops require 60 minutes. If the recipe didn't have these hops (hypothetically a hopless beer or a beer with pre-hopped extract) then you don't need to boil.

I think there is a beer in the recipe database called a 15 minute ale or something like that. It might have used pre-hopped extract. It has no biitering hops though. I only brought it up as a hypothetical. I've never had a beer with no bittering and I don't know if i'd like to. Not sure it'd be "undrinkable" though.
=====
Here it is: 15 minute Cascade Pale Ale.


It has a *lot* of flavor hops (hops that are only boiled for 15 or 20 minutes). Basically you don't boil the hops long enough to get all their potential bitterness. But you make up for that by using about twice as much.
 
"Although, I imagine every new brewer should eventually figure out sooner better than later that boil time actually has nothing to do with cooking the extract or processing the grains but has only and everything to to with hop utilyzing as you said."

Actually the information about the 60 minute boil being for hops utilization is helpful. I am not trying to avoid hops, but the only recipes that mr. beer uses hops in, its more dry hopping (I think), or boil a few minutes before flameout and extract.
I will probably start with a kit just to get a feel for the hopping and such and as I follow the directions it will give me more of idea of what hops to use and when.
Thanks for the info all, i'm always open to more
 
a few folks have stated that full vs. partial boil doesn't affect your required ingredients... this is not correct. boiling less water, and varying the amount of extract that you add (full vs. late addition) will affect your hop utilization.

holding all else constant, boil volume affects hop utilization (i.e. how much bitterness you extract) because less water = less ability to move alpha acids into solution = less isomerization. a full boil can achieve higher overall bitterness than a partial boil. a partial boil will require a little more hops to get the same bitterness as a full boil.

late addition of extract will improve your hop utilization, so this can in part offset your hop utilization loss from partial boiling.

brewing software will help you figure all this out.
 
I did get a brewing program, and I am learning how to use it. must have been the beers I was drinking last night, but took me forever to remember Gallons=gal not g (grams) when changing the boil equipment. However I now know how to brew about a shot of beer!!
 
a few folks have stated that full vs. partial boil doesn't affect your required ingredients... this is not correct. boiling less water, and varying the amount of extract that you add (full vs. late addition) will affect your hop utilization.

holding all else constant, boil volume affects hop utilization (i.e. how much bitterness you extract) because less water = less ability to move alpha acids into solution = less isomerization. a full boil can achieve higher overall bitterness than a partial boil. a partial boil will require a little more hops to get the same bitterness as a full boil.

late addition of extract will improve your hop utilization, so this can in part offset your hop utilization loss from partial boiling.

brewing software will help you figure all this out.

If I am using Beersmith to figure out utilization from a partial boil to a full boil can I simply just change the amount of water I am boiling to see the difference? Or is there something else that needs to be done?


Sorry for the threadjack, but being a noob I try to read all of these types of threads.
 
No problem about jacking the thread, the more noob questions get asked the more I can learn too!!

On a side note my Speidel 30L has been shipped and will be here friday!
 
As for my first 5 gallon brew I was going to start easy with a kit.

American Wheat:
5% barley / 55% wheat. Makes 5 gallons.
Kit Contains:
2 can Plain Wheat Malt Extract
1 bag of Bottle Caps
1 bag Priming Sugar
1 packet Muntons Ale Yeast
1 oz. UK First Gold Hop Pellets
True Brew™ American Wheat Instructions

Was thinking of adding cherries to the wort when I put it into the primary. Hoping it will give me a decent cherry wheat style ale.
Thoughts?
 
I am not trying to avoid hops, but the only recipes that mr. beer uses hops in, its more dry hopping (I think), or boil a few minutes before flameout and extract.
I will probably start with a kit just to get a feel for the hopping and such ..

Probably the first thing you will notice about the recipes you attempt to brew will be whether they use pre-hopped and/or flavored extracts or whether the use the standard unhopped unflavored extract.

The kit that came with your Mr. Beer kit was a pre-hopped flavored extract. In essence you only had to add water and ferment.

Now I'm a bit of a snob. And although we are all friendly to newbies, all the other posters here are snobs too. And in three months *you* will be a snob. And as snobs we tend to look down our noses at these "instant beers" and will thus we'll encourage you to start going into "ingredient kits" in which you utilize your own hops. But all in your own time.

The standard "ingredient" kit will contain several pounds of liquid (LME-- liquid malt extract) and/or dry (DME-- dry malt extract) extract. These extracts will came in a specrtum of light or dark but are a basic standard ingredient (much like flour is a standard ingredient of baking). They have no hop oils in them and are of a standard basic malt flavor with no subtlties.


The kit will contain a small amount of "specialty grains". You can think of these as flavorings. They add color and sense of roasted flavors. You steep them in hot water in a little sock like sack like a tea bag.

And then the kit will contain hops. And, other than sanitation, hops are the only reason you boil your wort. Hops serve basically three functions and ingredient kits will provide up to three sets of hops for these three functions and a recipe will list its hops in three steps for these functions. There are "bittering hops" which you boil for about a full hour. There are "flavoring hops" which you cook for a short time. (Brewers develop their preferences but basically you toss flavoring hops in the last 20 minutes or half hour.) And then there are "aroma hops" which you add in the last ten minutes or so of the boil. The longer you boil hops the bitterer they become. The less you boil hops the stronger and more "upfront" their flavors are.

And that's making wort in a nutshell.

It might seem a bit complicated reading it all without a basic concept of the whole process and abstract and away from a stove but it's actually for logical, systematic and a lot of fun and there's a lot to learn and a lot to enjoy as you learn.

And there's a lot you can learn and fiddle with: Okay, just how bitter you hops will become depends on the alpha acid in that particular harvest and you can tweak it by adjusting the amount of water and extracts you cook it in. But that's a little advanced. Less advanced is adjusting when you add the extract. You can add it all at the start but many folks like to add most of the extract at the end as a "late addition". And that can to a small extent effect how bitter your hops become. There's a lot you can learn but there's also a lot you can take easy at first. It's a load of fun though!

But back to your original question: You'll be just fine doing half a boil and needn't worry about any adverse effects it will have.
 
If I am using Beersmith to figure out utilization from a partial boil to a full boil can I simply just change the amount of water I am boiling to see the difference? Or is there something else that needs to be done?
i'm not in front of my computer with BS installed on it so i can't walk you through the steps, but somewhere (in your equipment profile setup?) you should be able to specify how much top-up water you are adding after the boil. once you do this, BS will be able to calculate hop utilization.


Was thinking of adding cherries to the wort when I put it into the primary. Hoping it will give me a decent cherry wheat style ale.
Thoughts?
typically one adds cherry after primary fermentation is complete. it's also one of the few reasons, in my opinion, that it makes sense to use a secondary.

read up on cherry wheat recipes, then add only 75% of the recommended amount of cherries. go light and work your way up. few things are worse than an over-fruited beer, especially something relatively delicate like an american wheat.
 
i'm not in front of my computer with BS installed on it so i can't walk you through the steps, but somewhere (in your equipment profile setup?) you should be able to specify how much top-up water you are adding after the boil. once you do this, BS will be able to calculate hop utilization.



Thanks for the help :mug:
 
sweetcell,

I found it at the top bar under "adjust bitterness". d'oh! So I set the ibu's for the amount that was set under the partial boil and viola, got the change.
 
About to get another Speidel, got a quick question about it though. I was going to get another 30L, however if I decide to use it for a a secondary fementer from time to time, would the 7.5 gal space be too much room for a 5 gal batch? Perhaps the 20L (5.3gal) would be better?
 
About to get another Speidel, got a quick question about it though. I was going to get another 30L, however if I decide to use it for a a secondary fementer from time to time, would the 7.5 gal space be too much room for a 5 gal batch? Perhaps the 20L (5.3gal) would be better?


You shouldn't have any problems at all with the extra headspace. Get the 30L
 

Latest posts

Back
Top