Issues Whirlpooling and Chilling Simultaneously

[heckels]

I've got a 15 gallon Stout BK with the tangential inlet about 4" higher than the outlet of the kettle.

I've also got a Chugger pump and More Beer's convoluted CFC.

For the first 15-20 batches I've done on this system, I always whirlpooled, then a 10 minute rest followed by transferring to my carboys using the CFC inline. This has worked fine but takes about 45 minutes from start to finish.

The last two batches I decided to try to save time and whirlpool and chill via the CFC at the same time.

This has failed both times. The system has no issue whirlpooling if the CFC is turned off (flows through the CFC but the cold water is turned off). However, as soon as I turn the cold water on, I suddenly am no longer able to keep the whirlpool going.

I've tried adjusting my ball valves from barely open to wide open, as well as flipped them 180 degrees to see if that was restricting flow.

I assume this has something to do with fluid dynamics and the fact that the entry of the tangential inlet is too low and not allowing the hotter wort at the top to make it's way down to the outlet. I'm essentially recirculating the cooler wort at the bottom.

Anyone else run into a similar issue and were able to solve it aside from adding another port to the top of the BK to recirculate?


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[Homercidal]

Hmm... I'm trying to picture where your ports are. I have chilled while recirculating several batches and haven't had a problem. I draw from the dip tube at the bottom of the BK, and then pump back up to the top through a SS tube that shoots it across the top and creates a whirlpool.j

I can't see how turning on the cold water to your chiller would stop the whirlpool effect.

 

[heckels]

Hmm... I'm trying to picture where your ports are. I have chilled while recirculating several batches and haven't had a problem. I draw from the dip tube at the bottom of the BK, and then pump back up to the top through a SS tube that shoots it across the top and creates a whirlpool.j

I can't see how turning on the cold water to your chiller would stop the whirlpool effect.

Here's a picture to help illustrate (the ports are standard on all Stout Kettles - BK is on the far right). The port at the lower-center is the outlet for the kettle. The port on the right and about 4" up from the outlet is the tangential inlet for whirlpooling. You'll notice it's much lower than what a lot of people would use for a whirlpool port.

The two ports on the left are for a sight glass.

Thanks.






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[orangehero]

I don't think the issue is with the whirlpool port. If there's any agitation of the wort, such as pumping through the whirlpool port, then there should be no measurable stratification.

It's hard to comprehend how turning on the cooling water would have any effect on the ability of the pump to create a whirlpool. To clarify, you're saying that at the end of the boil you cut the heat and start pumping boiling hot wort through the CFC and the tangential inlet and create a satisfactory whirlpool in the kettle (with the hot wort). Then, as soon as you turn on the coolant flow through the CFC, the whirlpool suddenly stops. If you turn the coolant off again, the whirlpool returns. This only happens when you are pumping boiling hot liquid but not cool or cooled liquid. If hot liquid is allowed to cool down then you can create a whirlpool with or without coolant flow through the CFC. I made some assumptions based on what you wrote, but is that all correct?

Can you film a short video of this phenomenon.

 

[Muchacho]

Can you adjust the angle on the whirlpool port? Perhaps angling the inlet up or down 10-15 deg would mix the hot/cold wort better.

 

[kevink]

Orangehero's questions definitely need to be answered before we can figure this out, but I'll just throw this out there. Could it be a cold break issue? Maybe cold break is clogging one of you ball valves (total guess, but it might be possible) or your cold break is clogging the screen or whatever outlet you have in your BK. You could shoot this idea down by answering Orangehero's question of whether the flow picks back up when you turn your cold water off. I can barely whirlpool in my BK when hop debris/cold break get all over the screen in my BK.

 

[kuestess]

I had the exact same problem in my setup and it turned out to be the height/angle of my whirlpool inlet. the inlet was coming back into the BK too low and essentially recirculating cooled wort. I had significant stratification in the BK - the bottom of the BK was cool to the touch while the top was hot enough that I couldn't hold my hand on it. I had two pumps in series to get a better whirlpool, but still had significant stratification. For my last brew, I adjusted the angle of the inlet up such that the incoming cool wort mixed with the hot wort on top of the BK (setting up convection currents) and this worked like a dream. The entire BK cooled down to pitch temp in ~25min. Put your hand on the side of the BK and see if you have a large temperature gradient from top to bottom. If you do, you might want to adjust the angle of your inlet higher.