Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[Mousetrapbrewery]

What boggles my mind most about TH is how drastically the flavors disappear, I had one Julius in the back of my fridge that was getting close to 3 months old and any and all flavors had completely dissipated, same scenario about a year ago with a can of Very Green. I travel often for work and buy way more beer than I can consume, so I often have left over ones and twosies after 2 months. Monkish, Other Half, Green Cheek, Trillium, Bissell, all of these beers still have flavor and fruitiness after 2-3 months (obviously not as intense as the first couple weeks but still very drinkable). TH is completely gone, ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY gone. Nothing but malt and alcohol. Is this attributed to the killer strain, does it continue to clean up esters and phenols even at fridge temperatures? Ive just never experienced this with any IPA from anywhere, theres usually at least some hop presence and yeast flavor remaining.

I honestly experience the complete opposite than you. TH is usually the only beer in my fridge that doesn’t change after 3+ months. And I go to TH probably 1-2 times a month and have beers from them that last 2-3 months at a time. Any other beer I have after 2-3 months old taste different. There yeast character is always there after 3+ months.

 

[TBryerton]

In only 2 months?

IMO a good % of the TH beers I drink are considerably better at 1M, and sometimes better at 2M. That typically does not include the Citra heavy beers like the Julius series.

But I will admit, any NEIPA in my fridge that’s older than 2M will get used in my Big Green Egg rather than consumed, so I can’t speak to 3M.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

How did the Secret Clubhouse turn out?

It is in the fermenter right now. I have not tried a sample. It has been a slower than expected fermentation. I was worried it was going to stall out around 1.030, but it has worked down to 1.012 on day 10 (from 1.070, 83% attenuation, 7.4% ABV, based on Tilt readings). I will dry hop it in a few days.

 

[Dog House Brew]

It is in the fermenter right now. I have not tried a sample. It has been a slower than expected fermentation. I was worried it was going to stall out around 1.030, but it has worked down to 1.012 on day 10 (from 1.070, 83% attenuation, 7.4% ABV, based on Tilt readings). I will dry hop it in a few days.

I’ll follow along, I have it in the fridge now.

 

[beervoid]

In my trials, WB-06 absolutely trashes hop flavour, so if they are still using it for some beers and not completely racking it off, that might be part of the equation?

This really makes me wonder how it could be possible. We are then getting into biotransformation territory, which would mean that certain biotransformative actions can ultimately be detrimental to hop flavor. So transforming certain compounds into more favorable compounds but if left going on longer they transform into unfavorable or simply non excisting compounds. Or is this simply the WB yeast derived flavors taking over?

I noted that the Mangrove Jack yeast with enzymes in it, when I brewed a beer and A/B'ed it, it really had much less aroma flavor then the control beer.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

We are then getting into biotransformation territory, which would mean that certain biotransformative actions can ultimately be detrimental to hop flavor.

Biotransformation is just the conversion of one compound in the wort to another, there's nothing that says it has to be converted into a compound that is "tastier". WB-06 just seems to convert everything in sight into compounds with no flavour.

Or is this simply the WB yeast derived flavors taking over?

No, it's not the WB-06 yeast flavours. Just try for yourself, bitter 15 litres of 10.45-1.050 wort to 30IBU, then add 100g Chinook across 10 minutes/flameout/whirlpool/dryhop and split into 3x5litres with US-05, T-58 and WB-06.

You'll get completely different beers.

 

[beervoid]

IMO a good % of the TH beers I drink are considerably better at 1M, and sometimes better at 2M. That typically does not include the Citra heavy beers like the Julius series.

But I will admit, any NEIPA in my fridge that’s older than 2M will get used in my Big Green Egg rather than consumed, so I can’t speak to 3M.

Can you describe better? What changes in that 1 month?

 

[TBryerton]

Nate talks a little about yeast blends in this video:

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Nate talks a little about yeast blends in this video:

Implication that it's a blend of two of the Dataset yeasts? One with "incredible aroma...but too dry", the other with better mouthfeel?

 

[DevilsCups]

Incredible aroma but too dry sounds like something along the lines of Sacc Trois.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

wepeeler had a chat with Nate :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/page-467#post-10348245

 

[SkiHazy]

I’ve learned a lot from this thread and thought I’d give back. Only recently just got back into homebrewing. I was in a serious pursuit of the tree house goodness at the homebrew level from 2015 through 2018.

Here are a series of pictures from Monson Tree House of the fermenter temps from Dec 2015 to August 2016 when they started covering them to keep the spy’s out.

What I found out was for all of the IPAs, they were set to 66 for the first 9 days, then 62 for another 10-12 days. They definitely were not blending tanks that I could tell because they very rarely had multiple of the same beer in a tank.

Anyway I hope this helps. I’m still chasing the dragon of Monson level tree house beer. I heard they’re brewing on a smaller system in their new Woodstock CT location and the beer tastes much better, like it did in Monson. I’d suggest analyzing a can for what yeast is coming out of there. Cheers

Dec 22nd 2015

February 18th 2016

March 11th 2016

April 14th 2016

June 2nd 2016

July 7th 2016

August 5th 2016

 

[beervoid]

I’ve learned a lot from this thread and thought I’d give back. Only recently just got back into homebrewing. I was in a serious pursuit of the tree house goodness at the homebrew level from 2015 through 2018.

Here are a series of pictures from Monson Tree House of the fermenter temps from Dec 2015 to August 2016 when they started covering them to keep the spy’s out.

What I found out was for all of the IPAs, they were set to 66 for the first 9 days, then 62 for another 10-12 days. They definitely were not blending tanks that I could tell because they very rarely had multiple of the same beer in a tank.

Anyway I hope this helps. I’m still chasing the dragon of Monson level tree house beer. I heard they’re brewing on a smaller system in their new Woodstock CT location and the beer tastes much better, like it did in Monson. I’d suggest analyzing a can for what yeast is coming out of there. Cheers

Dec 22nd 2015
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February 18th 2016
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March 11th 2016
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April 14th 2016
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June 2nd 2016
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July 7th 2016
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August 5th 2016
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Nice thanks for sharing.
What puzzles me is the temp set at 220 both from as low 48f to as high as 87f even.
So it seems to me they employ some sort of freerise somewhere, during dryhop and after fermentation?
Or perhaps this is when they clean the tanks?

 

[SkiHazy]

Nice thanks for sharing.
What puzzles me is the temp set at 220 both from as low 48f to as high as 87f even.
So it seems to me they employ some sort of freerise somewhere, during dryhop and after fermentation?
Or perhaps this is when they clean the tanks?

I assumed those tanks are being cleaned. They either don’t have a beer designated in the tank or have a fill date of 3+ weeks (meaning it was likely just emptied). The low temp tanks are for lagering. They’re labeled “TM” for trail magic, etc.

On another note: I want to mention back in the Monson days I regularly stepped up yeast from Tree House cans. I used this yeast successfully for many IPAs. At the time I had no idea it was a blend or that it contained CBC-1 and I had great results about 75% of the time. I actually came in 2nd place overall BOS at the Sam Adams homebrew competition out of 5,000 people (1st in American IPA category) with a beer made using the tree house yeast. First place had their beer scaled up and sold nation wide, so that would’ve been an awkward conversation if I had won at the time…

Anyway, I have a beer fermenting right now with 600mL LA3 slurry, 300mL S-04 slurry, sprinkled with 2g of T-58 dry yeast. Fermenting at 66deg initially, then will drop to 62. I know it’s not a direct TH clone but will report back with results.

 

[beervoid]

I assumed those tanks are being cleaned. They either don’t have a beer designated in the tank or have a fill date of 3+ weeks (meaning it was likely just emptied). The low temp tanks are for lagering. They’re labeled “TM” for trail magic, etc.

On another note: I want to mention back in the Monson days I regularly stepped up yeast from Tree House cans. I used this yeast successfully for many IPAs. At the time I had no idea it was a blend or that it contained CBC-1 and I had great results about 75% of the time. I actually came in 2nd place overall BOS at the Sam Adams homebrew competition out of 5,000 people (1st in American IPA category) with a beer made using the tree house yeast. First place had their beer scaled up and sold nation wide, so that would’ve been an awkward conversation if I had won at the time…

Anyway, I have a beer fermenting right now with 600mL LA3 slurry, 300mL S-04 slurry, sprinkled with 2g of T-58 dry yeast. Fermenting at 66deg initially, then will drop to 62. I know it’s not a direct TH clone but will report back with results.

Did the yeast throw those illusive bubblegum and melon notes?

 

[SkiHazy]

Did the yeast throw those illusive bubblegum and melon notes?

Yes it had all the classic tree house esters. Has anyone successfully stepped up the TH can dregs and gotten those esters recently? Having a buddy ship me some fresh tree house I may try. I know lots on here keep calling CBC-1 a “killer yeast” but if they were using it back in 2015-2018 then it definitely did not kill the other yeasts in the can dregs… I brewed probably 30 batches with TH can dregs.

 

[beervoid]

What I found out was for all of the IPAs, they were set to 66 for the first 9 days, then 62 for another 10-12 days. They definitely were not blending tanks that I could tell because they very rarely had multiple of the same beer in a tank.

Was that based on dates on the photo's?

 

[DevilsCups]

Interesting. I just watched one of Treehouses YouTube videos and Nate said "...fermentation temperature somewhere in the low 70's".

@ 3:52 -

 

[SkiHazy]

Their process may have changed with the larger brew system in Charlton. All of these pics were from their smaller brew system in Monson.

But take a look at the photos, you’ll see fermentation vessels labeled “G” for green, “J” for Julius, “H” for haze, “AE” for alter ego, and so on…

Based on the day the photo was taken, the vessels are labeled what date they’re filled, you can see some tanks were filled the same day, or the day before the photo was taken. All the IPAs are set to 66 degrees initially, with the oldest dates IPA vessel still set to 66 was 9 days after filling. After that, the tanks are set to 62 for up to 19 days after filling.

I remember Nate mentioning they generally have a 19-21 day turnaround.

 

[beervoid]

Interesting. I just watched one of Treehouses YouTube videos and Nate said "...fermentation temperature somewhere in the low 70's".

@ 3:52 -

I seem to recall that more hydrostatic pressure on bigger tanks supresses esters so perhaps they have to ferment at higher temps on larger scale?

 

[SkiHazy]

An interesting note:
Looking at the Tree House curiosity series descriptions. Apparently they didn’t start carbonating in the fermenter until late 2017 or early 2018? (Curiosity Forty Four). Assuming they didn’t start putting CBC-1/F2 in their beers until then.

Maybe that explains why I had such good results with using their can dregs. I think all of the cans I built up yeast from were from before that time.

I have an experiment going right now. I’ve built up can dregs from the following beers:

Jjjuiceee Machine
Vvveryyy Green
Regular Green
New Day
Prodigal Haze pt III

Will be brewing split batch with each. Trying to decided if I should plate them and try to remove the CBC-1/F2 somehow then build back up… not sure how that would work though.