Is a 1L starter 1L of fluid?

[KramE]

So, I've watched a couple videos, read some posts, and now I'm confused.

Some sources say (including one here on Homebrewtalk) that a 1L starter is only called that because it's in a 1L flask, and they use 2 cups of water.

Other sources state that it's actually 1L of fluid.

Which is it?

Thanks!

Mark

 

[slym2none]

While I have never made a starter, I would assume that a "1 liter starter" is 1 liter of material. I usually see people say they make a 2-liter starter, and I see 2 liters of material in a 5-liter flask.

But what do I really know? I am just a noob at this still... *shrugs*

 

[TAK]

I always do x-volume of water plus DME.

1L starter = 1L water + (whatever amount of DME it takes to get to apx. 1.037)

 

[benzesp]

Depends if you chill after culturing. Chilling will drop the suspended yeast to the bottom and you can decant or pour off the majority of the spent wort. If it's not chilled you will have a lot of active yeast still in suspension, in that case pitch the whole batch.

 

[mbobhat]

https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_makingastarter.cfm

Like said above, you make what the volume of liquid says. Just scale up the linked recipe to get 2L or whatever.

When you pitch a starter, you can either pitch the whole thing, or if you have a lot of liquid, let it sit in the fridge for a bit. Most of the yeast will settle, leaving a white/tan layer, just pour off the liquid carefully leaving an inch or so left, then swirl it all into a slurry and pitch.

Cheers

 

[pricelessbrewing]

1L starter is 1L of water plus dme to get to 1.037.

For what it's worth I use the brew united yeast starter calculator (formerly homebrewdad)

 

[Ike]

For what it's worth I use the brew united yeast starter calculator (formerly homebrewdad)

+1. Here it is:

http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

It's a bit much to look at the first time, but just spend a minute moving numbers around and you'll get it. Hovering over the ? symbols actually gives some pretty good information, a couple of "aha" points that really help gel the idea of a starter.

 

[Singletrack]

So it's not 1 liter of extract plus however much water is needed to dilute to 1.037? Because that makes the same sense as starting with 1 liter of water.

A starter contains water and extract, and maybe even a little yeast. One liter of this concoction should be a 1 liter starter. If convention dictates otherwise, then its time to flee this convention and go have a beer.

You may not be interested to know, then, that 8 oz of DME adds a volume of about 0.13 liters, IME.

 

[slym2none]

Wait - 8 oz DME = .13 liters. So, to make up 1 liter of DME, you'd need ~4 pounds of DME. To dilute that with water to 1.037, you'd need almost 5 gallons of water.

That's a bit more than 1 liter of starter.

So, no, it isn't "1 liter of extract plus however much water is needed to dilute to 1.037".

 

[brettg20]

Lol, only a few threads on this topic...just use a 10 to 1 ratio...water to DME in ML, but account for boil off. Is 1.037 the new 1.040?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

So it's not 1 liter of extract plus however much water is needed to dilute to 1.037? Because that makes the same sense as starting with 1 liter of water.

A starter contains water and extract, and maybe even a little yeast. One liter of this concoction should be a 1 liter starter. If convention dictates otherwise, then its time to flee this convention and go have a beer.

You may not be interested to know, then, that 8 oz of DME adds a volume of about 0.13 liters, IME.

oh god no, starting with 1 liter of dme is going to give you a vastly different volume and yeast growth. All the data was defined in such a way that 1 liter of water + dme to 1.037 is best for a 1 l starter.

 

[tally350z]

I use yeastcalculator to determine my starter volume. Use the 10:1 ratio, so if the calculator calls for a certain cell count and you will need a 1.4 liter starter then use 1.4 liters of water and 140grams DME. I boil in the flask and as soon as I start to get to a boil I turn off the burner, remove the flask and start chilling. There is no need to boil for longer, only enough time to make sure the DME is dissolved completely.
Once the starter is done you can either
A- put the starter in the fridge for 24 hours to allow the yeast to floc. then decant the wort, while leaving a little to make sure you can mix well. Then pitch
or B- skip the decanting and pitch the entire 1.4 liters into the beer.
I would recommend decanting, you just have to account for the time it takes in the fridge.

 

[KramE]

Thank you all for your help!

I brew half batches, and the O.G is such that I still need to make a starter. Would it be possible to scale it down use 0.5L instead of 1L as I only need to make up 20 billion more cells?

 

[tally350z]

Thank you all for your help!

I brew half batches, and the O.G is such that I still need to make a starter. Would it be possible to scale it down use 0.5L instead of 1L as I only need to make up 20 billion more cells?

As long as you go by the recommended cell count estimator. When you input your information and it is saying to make a .5 liter starter then make a .5 liter starter.
Given that you don't know the exact cell count of the vial you can error on the side of a too large starter. So anywhere between a .5 liter and .7 or .8 liter starter won't hurt..

 

[KramE]

After spending more time on the interwebs, I think I'll stick with the 1L volume and cold crash it.

Next question... Is over pitching a real thing?

 

[TheMadKing]

Its a starter that's total volume is 1L, and being exact down to the mL isn't important. So 1L of water + DME to get 1.040 SG.

 

[TheMadKing]

After spending more time on the interwebs, I think I'll stick with the 1L volume and cold crash it.

Next question... Is over pitching a real thing?

Yes it is a real thing, but it's hard to do and it depends on the style.

If you massively overpitch (like 150%+) you can get a number of off flavors from a fast fermentation, as well as premature yeast death and a yeasty flavor. You can also lose body and flavor and end up with a thin, high ABV beer when you wanted a chunky barleywine.

As long as you're in the ballpark you're not going to overpitch

 

[Yesfan]

Thank you all for your help!

I brew half batches, and the O.G is such that I still need to make a starter. Would it be possible to scale it down use 0.5L instead of 1L as I only need to make up 20 billion more cells?

Why not save the extra .5L for the next batch? This way you don't have to worry about washing the yeast cake and you have a second clean starter for the next beer.

 

[Ike]

Wow. Apparently, I'm not being NEARLY technical enough about this.

1 liter of water, 100g DME, mix/boil, cool, pitch, grow, pitch.

 

[KramE]

1 liter of water, 100g DME, mix/boil, cool, pitch, grow, pitch.

Wait wait! Mix/boil? Or boil/mix? Perhaps you could construct a flow chart. And a TPS report.

 

[KramE]

Why not save the extra .5L for the next batch? This way you don't have to worry about washing the yeast cake and you have a second clean starter for the next beer.

At this moment, that seems scary, complicated and unknown. I haven't made a starter yet, or done any real research into cell counts to feel comfortable selecting a quantity to withhold. I will however, look into it because I didn't even think that to be an option until now.

As long as you're in the ballpark you're not going to overpitch

Thank you.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Actually, according to the experts, a 1L starter is 100 g of DME plus enough water to make 1L total. So in other words, like 0.9L of water or whatever.

Feel free to argue the merits of it, but hey that's how the experts define it.

 

[Singletrack]

Lol, only a few threads on this topic...just use a 10 to 1 ratio...water to DME in ML, but account for boil off. Is 1.037 the new 1.040?

You may be boiling too long. I think I lose a few ml during the boil.

I think 1.0376 is ideal, but sometimes I round to 1.038. Your simple formula is not going to make acceptable beer, and I suspect you don't know your exact OG. Tsk.

Do you really measure your DME in ml? Nah, you meant g of DME and ml of water.

Mr. Malty says: "Add 1 gram of DME for every 10 ml of final volume. (If you're making a 2 liter starter, add water to 200 grams of DME until you have 2 liters total.)"

Now who is going to argue with Mr. Malty? Not me (this time), so apparently you will make acceptable beer. My apologies. But notice how a 2 liter starter does NOT have 2 liters of water. That's because the DME occupies a volume of 0.13 liters per 8 oz, and MM says you want 2 liters total.

But does it really matter. I think not. Still, the OP asked, and I have answered.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I'll throw in my 2 cents.

A 1 liter starter is 1 liter of wort, meaning water plus an appropriate amount of DME (see below). Then you must determine cell count of yeast that will give the most ideal yield factor while maintaining optimal cell health.

A good rule of thumb for measuring DME for a starter is 1 gram DME per 10 ml of final wort volume. So for 1L wort, you'd add water to 100 grams DME until you reached 1L total volume.

If you did the above starter and pitched 100 billion viable yeast cells, you would see an increase to roughly 152 billion.

Variances in liquid volume, gravity, and pitching rates in a starter all affect the growth/yield factor.

This information is all per "Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation" by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff, which I highly recommend for anyone (although most of you probably already have a copy on your shelves).

 

[KramE]

Thank you, everyone who has taken the time to answer my questions.

Since I am brewing 2.5 gallon batches, if I make a starter, I will be over pitching by double the called for amount, e.g. 113 billion needed, starter results in 244 billion. Is that too much yeast?

Would splitting the batch in half while the yeast is in suspension as previously suggested be truly that simple...? And just keep using that method for X number of generations?

 

[Ike]

Thank you, everyone who has taken the time to answer my questions.

Since I am brewing 2.5 gallon batches, if I make a starter, I will be over pitching by double the called for amount, e.g. 113 billion needed, starter results in 244 billion. Is that too much yeast?

Would splitting the batch in half while the yeast is in suspension as previously suggested be truly that simple...? And just keep using that method for X number of generations?

I'm too noobish to answer the first part.

BUT

AS a noob, I feel I'm the perfect person to say YES, splitting a starter is just that easy. I built my first-ever starter for my most recent batch (after over a year of buying, using, and flushing yeast down the drain) and is was SUPER easy. Make a nice starter from the vial of WLP002 that I would have pitched, then take half and pitch into my batch and save the other half (basically the same # cells as the original vial) in the fridge for next time. Lather, rinse, repeat. Don't sweat it, do it!

 

[Singletrack]

Starters can be any size. You can make a small starter for your 2.5 gal batch without overpitching. Make the right size by using an on-line calculator. Do not over pitch or under pitch. Try to stay within 20% of the target, but this is not an exact science. Some calculators (looking at you Mr. Malty) call for a lot more yeast than others (looking at you Braukaiser).

Yeah, splitting is that simple.