IPA Recipe Repeat with Changes - Opinions Please

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Hudini56

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I am going back to my "almost" what I wanted batch. The last time I brewed this I used S04 for 5 gal and 1318 for 5 gal. I preferred the S04. But I think it needed tweaking. I made some slight adjustments to the hops (removed centennial as a keg hop, added a second Citra dry hop) Also added Simcoe as my 1st dry hop during late ferm my thought. Cut back on my Carapils, and added in some flaked oats. Here it is - Thoughts on recipe and suggestions on Yeast welcome! All grain, yeast starter ability.

5 Gallon

9lb 2 Row
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Carapils
1.5lb White wheat
1lb Flakes oats

Mash at 150deg 60 min

.5 Apollo FWH
.25 Apollo 15min
.5 Apollo 0min

1.5oz Citra WP 170deg 20 Min
1.5oz Citra WP 150deg 20 min
1.5oz Citra WP 130deg 20 min

Ferm at 66deg (about what my ferm area holds temp at this time of year.

4 days into ferm
4 oz Simcoe for 5 days
4 oz Citra 3 days cold crash transfer to Keg.

Yeast? S05? 1056? Thoughts?
 
I'll offer my thoughts...

Malt bill: you may not want to change it, in which case, disregard. But I would humbly suggest swapping out that carapils for another half pound of wheat. I have a mild caramalt aversion when it comes to IPAs, and since I don't see any effect from carapils except head retention, which you get just as well from wheat, I'd just as soon prefer not to use it.

Hops: look good! Would you be open to using some mosaic in there as well? It shares certain properties with both Apollo (a little dank) and Citra (loads of fruitiness), and might be a nice bridge between the two. I think it was actually bred from Simcoe, too.

Yeast: of course, 1056/US-05 is a safe choice, if not very interesting unto itself (but you've got plenty of interest already in this beer). Other good choice might include WLP007 Dry English, or Conan, which a number of labs currently sell (not white labs or wyeast; omega sells it as DIPA yeast, and someone else sells it as Vermont IPA).

Hope this helps a little!
 
Hudini56 said:
I am going back to my "almost" what I wanted batch. The last time I brewed this I used S04 for 5 gal and 1318 for 5 gal. I preferred the S04. But I think it needed tweaking. I made some slight adjustments to the hops (removed centennial as a keg hop, added a second Citra dry hop) Also added Simcoe as my 1st dry hop during late ferm my thought. Cut back on my Carapils, and added in some flaked oats. Here it is - Thoughts on recipe and suggestions on Yeast welcome! All grain, yeast starter ability.

5 Gallon

9lb 2 Row
.5lb Crystal 20L
.5lb Carapils
1.5lb White wheat
1lb Flakes oats

Mash at 150deg 60 min

.5 Apollo FWH
.25 Apollo 15min
.5 Apollo 0min

1.5oz Citra WP 170deg 20 Min
1.5oz Citra WP 150deg 20 min
1.5oz Citra WP 130deg 20 min

Ferm at 66deg (about what my ferm area holds temp at this time of year.

4 days into ferm
4 oz Simcoe for 5 days
4 oz Citra 3 days cold crash transfer to Keg.

Yeast? S05? 1056? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Looks great. I have recently started eliminating Caramel malts entirely and going with 2-row and wheat malt.
I really like WLP090 for IPAs. You want it to be very dry to make hops shine.

I would add some other hops in addition to Citra to add some dimensionality. I like Simcoe and Amarillo with Citra.

Do you adjust water at all?

I am now doing 2 sets of dryhopping in the keg to enhance aroma.
 
JordanKnudson said:
I'll offer my thoughts...

Malt bill: you may not want to change it, in which case, disregard. But I would humbly suggest swapping out that carapils for another half pound of wheat. I have a mild caramalt aversion when it comes to IPAs, and since I don't see any effect from carapils except head retention, which you get just as well from wheat, I'd just as soon prefer not to use it.

Hops: look good! Would you be open to using some mosaic in there as well? It shares certain properties with both Apollo (a little dank) and Citra (loads of fruitiness), and might be a nice bridge between the two. I think it was actually bred from Simcoe, too.

Yeast: of course, 1056/US-05 is a safe choice, if not very interesting unto itself (but you've got plenty of interest already in this beer). Other good choice might include WLP007 Dry English, or Conan, which a number of labs currently sell (not white labs or wyeast; omega sells it as DIPA yeast, and someone else sells it as Vermont IPA).

Hope this helps a little!
Click to expand...

Im in for loosing the carapils - I have had good luck with the wheat. Adding another 1/2 of wheat doesnt hurt my feelings. I have a good amount of "Conan" that I propogated from heady cans a few months back, I am on gen 3 of that. Have had good results with it. But I also have like S05 in the past. I think there is some debate weather or not the Conan from the heady cans is actually conan? I dont know. I know it works, and produces a good beer for me.

Where are you suggesting the Mosaic? as a replacement to what I have, ir in addition to what I have?

55x11 - This will be my first batch that I am making water adustments. I just got my water report this past week. So now I know where I stand and where I need to go. I am using Simcoe as my 1st dry hop addition, for 5 days, then Citra for 3 days. Maybe add a little kicker of citra in the keg - Like 2 ounces maybe..
 
Hudini56 said:
Im in for loosing the carapils - I have had good luck with the wheat. Adding another 1/2 of wheat doesnt hurt my feelings. I have a good amount of "Conan" that I propogated from heady cans a few months back, I am on gen 3 of that. Have had good results with it. But I also have like S05 in the past. I think there is some debate weather or not the Conan from the heady cans is actually conan? I dont know. I know it works, and produces a good beer for me.

Where are you suggesting the Mosaic? as a replacement to what I have, ir in addition to what I have?
Click to expand...

Interesting about the yeast from the cans, I never realized that! (Well, it doesn't actually affect me because I can't get Heady Topper here, so propagating that yeast is out for me). Still, if it makes good beer, maybe that'd be a good choice!

For the Mosaic, I wouldn't necessarily replace anything in the kettle. I'd integrate some into the existing recipe. Maybe toss in a small amount at the 15 min addition if you like, then add 2 oz total to the whirlpool divided evenly between your three steeps. I like it in the dry hop as well, but this would be where you might want to substitute (just so that you don't exacerbate your liquid loss, which will already be significant). Maybe sub one ounce each of the Simcoe and Citra for Mosaic?

I do think it's important to keep the Mosaic at a slightly lower quantity than the other hops, simply because it is very powerful, enough so that it can even overpower strong varieties like Citra and Simcoe if used in a 1:1 proportion.
 
Just thoughts - bulleted only to keep typing down.

WY1968 or WLP-051. Both standouts with fruity for me. (WLP-051 smells bad during fermentation though, but that goes away in the finished product.)

Add more Apollo in FWH. go to .75 oz, or move an ounce of the Simcoe to that end.

Love the Citra and the previous comments about adding Mosaic. They play so well together and make something greater than either one brings to the table.

Drop carapils, drop 1/2 lb oats and replace with 1 lb Golden Naked Oats. GNO is amazing in IPA's.
 
IMO the temp changes for hopstand/whirlpool seems overcomplicated for me...
like jordan suggest some mosaci is a great idea.
i's suggest eliminating the stepped whirlpool and do this

3oz citra WP 30 min
1oz mosaic WP 30 min

the othe rthings I'd suggest is changing out your simcoe for something a little more fruit punch ()mosaic citra galaxy are all good substitutions here. the simcoe may give you a bit much of the grapefruity resinny feel which generally isn't what people want in NE IPA's (personal preference of course - as simcoe is one of my fave's
 
So what if I went .75oz of apollo at FWH, .5 mosaic 15min, .5 mosaic 0min (in addition to citra, drop the late addition apollo) (galaxy not available right now at my local HBS) then 2.5oz citra .75 mosaic 30 min, and repeat for another 30min. Dry hop 2oz 2oz Mosaic an Citra 2 additions 5 days then 3 days. Keg with 1/1oz of both again? Sounds delicious to me..

I will look into the GNO, have not heard or seen it, but then again never looked for it.

Jordan, I get topper maybe 1 time a year. Just so happened a buddy of mine got a 4 pk in early November, and I just happened to have watched Don Osborn on youtube propogating some heady cans. So I went for it. used the very bottom 1" of 2 cans into a low gravity starter 1.025, ran that for 48 hours, cold crash, decant, then stepped up to a 1.035 starter for 48hours, then again 1.040 starter for 48hours. Ended up with a real decent yeast cake. I have been building starters off that, 1.5 litre, pitching .5 litre into a mason for next use, and pitching the 1 litre. Has been good on 3 batches. In comparison to S04 it has yielded a much clearer, fruity, crisp beer. But my recipe, water and mash temps have not been ideal for anything really!

I have been brewing 10 gallon batches lately, using 2 different yeasts. But been coming up with more beer than I can drink in a reasonable amount of time, and not made anything I feel worthy of gifting to friends. Im torn between using my conan or a tried and true suggestion as given above.
 
The recipe seems fine to me (I'd drop maybe the crystal malt). The main thing that will help you with hop punch is the water treatment. If you want to add another yeast to your backburner I do like the Mangrove Jacks M44 - US West Coast. It flocculates and attenuates well, it's not as fiddly as US05 and it's more neutral. It even fits some of the stronger UK styles pretty well (like a stronger stout or a strong ale). I've never tried Pacman but some people compare it to it.
 
Hudini56 said:
So what if I went .75oz of apollo at FWH, .5 mosaic 15min, .5 mosaic 0min (in addition to citra, drop the late addition apollo) (galaxy not available right now at my local HBS) then 2.5oz citra .75 mosaic 30 min, and repeat for another 30min. Dry hop 2oz 2oz Mosaic an Citra 2 additions 5 days then 3 days. Keg with 1/1oz of both again? Sounds delicious to me..

I will look into the GNO, have not heard or seen it, but then again never looked for it.

Jordan, I get topper maybe 1 time a year. Just so happened a buddy of mine got a 4 pk in early November, and I just happened to have watched Don Osborn on youtube propogating some heady cans. So I went for it. used the very bottom 1" of 2 cans into a low gravity starter 1.025, ran that for 48 hours, cold crash, decant, then stepped up to a 1.035 starter for 48hours, then again 1.040 starter for 48hours. Ended up with a real decent yeast cake. I have been building starters off that, 1.5 litre, pitching .5 litre into a mason for next use, and pitching the 1 litre. Has been good on 3 batches. In comparison to S04 it has yielded a much clearer, fruity, crisp beer. But my recipe, water and mash temps have not been ideal for anything really!

I have been brewing 10 gallon batches lately, using 2 different yeasts. But been coming up with more beer than I can drink in a reasonable amount of time, and not made anything I feel worthy of gifting to friends. Im torn between using my conan or a tried and true suggestion as given above.
Click to expand...

I still think your overcomplicating you whirlpool hop additions.
have aread of this if you haven't already - http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/01/the-hop-stand-hot-vs-chilled-wort-exbeeriment-results/ its interesting. and gives a perspective on my thinking.
a simple 0min additions or single hopstand should suffice - (IMO i think your just wasting hops by adding at different whirlpool timings)
you've increased your FWH as well, I'm not sure why, i'd of left it at 0.5oz, but 0.75oz should be fine anyway.
 
I am kind of seeing this take shape - - - (modified your entry here and added some changes suggested by the group)
5 Gallon

9.0 lb 2 Row
0.5 lb Crystal 20L
1.5 lb White wheat
1.0 lb Golden Naked Oats
0.5 lb Flakes oats

Mash at 150deg 60 min

.75 Apollo @ FW
1.0 oz Simcoe @ 10
1.0 oz Mosaic at flameout


Hop stand - 20 min @ 160°F

1.0 oz mosaic
3.0 oz Citra

Pitch Conan, Jacks M44, WLP-051, or WY 1968
Ferm at 66deg (about what my ferm area holds temp at this time of year).

5 days left in fermenter - 3 oz Simcoe
3 days left in fermenter - 4 oz Citra

Cold crash, bottle or keg
 
Im seeing it similar to that. Although I did make the change with FWH to .75 - I think I would chicken out on that, I did this original batch with .5 and it was perfect as far as bitterness goes. Crusader pointed this out, and I have to agree it would probably be fine, but why mess with something I was happy with already. Also Crusader, I just read that article, very interesting. I agree, my method has been complicated, not difficult, but time consuming, and possibly not effective over just a f/o addition and maybe a second addition if going for high hops. So, I think I will pursue that path.

Unless much changes between now an friday, I will go with it very similar to above, Thanks for laying it out Redlantern!
 
Hudini56 said:
Im seeing it similar to that. Although I did make the change with FWH to .75 - I think I would chicken out on that, I did this original batch with .5 and it was perfect as far as bitterness goes.
Click to expand...

That is the difference between your beer and what you get in a bottle - you can pick stuff like that


BTW - I am probably gonna make this batch myself.
 
Redlantern said:
BTW - I am probably gonna make this batch myself.
Click to expand...

Haha - Copycat....
Looks a better recipe.

I just noticed over on the Julius thread about a guy doing a simple bittering addition then adding pretty much 10oz's of hops to the dryhop and thats it.

now thats simplistic! thinking i might give it a crack
 
Redlantern said:
I am kind of seeing this take shape - - - (modified your entry here and added some changes suggested by the group)
5 Gallon

9.0 lb 2 Row
0.5 lb Crystal 20L
1.5 lb White wheat
1.0 lb Golden Naked Oats
0.5 lb Flakes oats

Mash at 150deg 60 min

.75 Apollo @ FW
1.0 oz Simcoe @ 10
1.0 oz Mosaic at flameout


Hop stand - 20 min @ 160°F

1.0 oz mosaic
3.0 oz Citra

Pitch Conan, Jacks M44, WLP-051, or WY 1968
Ferm at 66deg (about what my ferm area holds temp at this time of year).

5 days left in fermenter - 3 oz Simcoe
3 days left in fermenter - 4 oz Citra

Cold crash, bottle or keg
Click to expand...

That's looking pretty good to me, too! Only thing I'd mention at this point, golden naked oats are the oat version of crystal malt. With that and the C20, you have a pound and a half of crystal malts in this beer, which isn't very IPAish. I'd drop the C20 and keep the golden naked oats (cause they're awesome), but definitely set that 1 pound as your upper limit.

...I'd also toss a little Mosaic into the dry hop, but that's not absolutely necessary.
 
JordanKnudson said:
Only thing I'd mention at this point, golden naked oats are the oat version of crystal malt. With that and the C20, you have a pound and a half of crystal malts in this beer.
Click to expand...

Never saw that. great point. Did not think of oats as a crystal but yeah, I see it now.

Drop 20 L and add 0.5 lb 2-row (raise to 9.5lb)
 
When I was making the changes to the recipe in Beersmith last night I noticed that, and removed it. Looking like something good to go with.
 
Now for the curve ball -

(thinking back to 55x11 and Crusader) In hop-stand and 3-day dry hop, replace one ounce of Citra with one ounce of Galaxy .......
 
I'd like incorporate galaxy soon. But thinking I will stick with this, see how it turns out and revisit. Would be nice to get a good solid recipe down, then make hop changes on future batches. See the differences in the future. And galaxy not available for me at my lhbs right now..
 
Hudini56 said:
I'd like incorporate galaxy soon. But thinking I will stick with this, see how it turns out and revisit. Would be nice to get a good solid recipe down, then make hop changes on future batches. See the differences in the future. And galaxy not available for me at my lhbs right now..
Click to expand...

Cool. Glad some good came of this exchange.

Seemed to be very productive. This was one of my favorite threads so far - direct statements, progress made and a pretty good solution.
 
Redlantern said:
Cool. Glad some good came of this exchange.

Seemed to be very productive. This was one of my favorite threads so far - direct statements, progress made and a pretty good solution.
Click to expand...

Has been great, for yeast I am still stuck between wy1318, S04 (because thats what I used on the time) or my conan. Id like to like my conan and give it another use, but not sure yet.

My plan is to do this brew next monday. So if I do I will post back and let you all know how it went, and attach some pics of the process.

Redlantern if you decide to try it out, please do the same and let us know the results!

Thank you!! :mug:
 
Went and picked up everything today. no GNO. So will stick to the plan without GNO. Hops and all else the same. Will use my Conan from heady cans. Also, making my water adjustments for the first time. Struggling through bru n water for the 1st time, and then comparing that to Beersmith.. I wanted phosphoric acid, but non at HBS, so I was directed to gypsum and calcium chloride. I trying to make the adjustments work to the water profile suggested in one of my other threads.. But having a tough time.. May just try to get as close as I can, and deal with it. Guess I will have to order phosphoric acid for the future. I have 1 other chance tomorrow, my really local (only 4 miles away but I never go there) may have some. Will try!
 
Hudini56 said:
Went and picked up everything today. no GNO. So will stick to the plan without GNO. Hops and all else the same. Will use my Conan from heady cans. Also, making my water adjustments for the first time. Struggling through bru n water for the 1st time, and then comparing that to Beersmith.. I wanted phosphoric acid, but non at HBS, so I was directed to gypsum and calcium chloride. I trying to make the adjustments work to the water profile suggested in one of my other threads.. But having a tough time.. May just try to get as close as I can, and deal with it. Guess I will have to order phosphoric acid for the future. I have 1 other chance tomorrow, my really local (only 4 miles away but I never go there) may have some. Will try!
Click to expand...

Keep your water additions fairly simple. I have fairly bland, soft water, which is good to mod and I have settled to fairly basic rules after a few years of brewing with. E.g., pale beers have 2g 80% lactic in the grist, dark beers have none, and mid colour beers have somewhere in between. Stock ales and IPAs have 8-12g gypsum, pale ales, porters and stouts have 6-8g gypsum, milds, saisons and Belgians have 2-4g gypsum.

I used to dial the whole thing up but in the end it becomes another ingredient more.
 
Thank you. I am seeing where I could get into a loop of add this add that. I need to sit down again and see how I can minimize the adjustments, possible adding in distilled water with my tap water. But I won't go over board and try to pin it down perfectly.
 
If I use 50 percent distilled I can reach my mash pH profile much closer with less salt addition. Excited for this one
 
Good luck! Water chemistry tends to be a very critical component in Brulosophy experiments!
 
Hudini56 said:
Well here it goes. Mashing at 150. Water adjustments made. Will stick to the plan, and let you all know how it goes along the way. Here's to hitting the numbers!
Click to expand...

Nice rig

How were the numbers? The smell? Details man! Details!!!
 
Boiling now, mash held at 150 for 60min. Pre boil .054. Coming up on 15 min add of Simcoe. So far so good. Have a 1 litre starter of my conan. Will post back later when all done with the details..
 
I was supposed to have a post boil Gravity of 1.061 - came in slightly low at 1.056. 5 gallon into ferm. Not sure why/what, but I am not going to sweat it. Pitched yeast at 68deg. Otherwise, all went according to plan. Stuck to my schedule, numbers for the most part were on the $$.

Used bru n water for my adjustments - weighed my water to be as close to exact as I could be. Used only gypsum and CaCI with 50% distilled water.
 
Mash at 150deg 60min

8.5 lb 2 row
2 lb White Wheat
8oz Flaked oats
8oz Vienna

.5 Apollo FWH
1oz Simcoe 15min
1oz Mosaic Flame out (let steep for 20min, temp drop from 212 to 175)

Start Whirlpool
2.5oz Citra
.75oz Mosaic
Ran both in whirlpool for 20min (temp drop from 175 to 155)

2.5oz Citra
.75 Mosaic
Again 20min (temp drop from 155 to 138)

Cooled to 68 deg into ferm and pitch starter.

Will dry hop on day 4 (this Friday) with 1.5oz Simcoe and 2oz Citra, and then repeat same 4 days later, let that go 3 days and into keg/cold crash.

Debating on keg hopping.. Possibly with the same mix just cut in half? Thoughts?

I threw in the vienna because it has worked well for me in the past on some other ipa recipes adding a smooth mouthfeel and a nice orange color. But had to back off the 2 row a bit, shooting for the lower FG. Still should put this around 6.3% or so. Being all about the hops I upped the whirlpool numbers a bit.

Now its the wait and see. Hoping my little Conan buddies do work! But as a good omen for the day, just after I finished my brew and clean up, made a trade with a guy locally for some heady and focal banger. So maybe the alchemist is on my side for this one. lol..
 
Last edited:
I have no doubt this will be a complete hop bomb

hop bomb.GIF
 
Hudini56 said:
Mash at 150deg 60min

8.5 lb 2 row
2 lb White Wheat
8oz Flaked oats
8oz Vienna

.5 Apollo FWH
1oz Simcoe 15min
1oz Mosaic Flame out (let steep for 20min, temp drop from 212 to 175)

Start Whirlpool
2.5oz Citra
.75oz Mosaic
Ran both in whirlpool for 20min (temp drop from 175 to 155)

2.5oz Citra
.75 Mosaic
Again 20min (temp drop from 155 to 138)

Cooled to 68 deg into ferm and pitch starter.

Will dry hop on day 4 (this Friday) with 1.5oz Simcoe and 2oz Citra, and then repeat same 4 days later, let that go 3 days and into keg/cold crash.

Debating on keg hopping.. Possibly with the same mix just cut in half? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Man, this really landed! Final recipe looks outrageously good. Can't wait to hear your verdict!
 
Taste and smell before keg hopping. I have never had any luck with keg hopping. I all ways get an astringent bitterness/flavor, that eventually mellows out after I pull the hops out. Many people talk about leaving the hops in the keg until it kicks with great success so I'm not sure if maybe that's the flavor they're going for?
 
At 18 hour mark this am I had a bit of activity in the airlock. Now at 30 hours I have a very vigorous ferm going on, non stop air lock bubbles, but temp is holding 68 deg. My last batch conan spiked ferm temp by 8 deg to 74 (66-74) during heavy ferm action. This is Conans 3rd generation I guess, at least 3rd 5 gallon batch. I have read it seems to improve and peak batches 5-8 or something like that.

I will attach a pic of my last 10 gallon, S04 will be the left, and the conan right. Same batch split into 2 5 gallon buckets. Kind of wish I did this batch like that, but man brewing a 5 is so much less work than a 10!

Will review/rethink the keg hopping. I am dealing with a bit of temp control in my keg fridge. Its in my garage, and temps around here have been in the 30's. And cant keep my keg fridge much above that. 35 or so lately. I had a session pale in the fridge as of yesterday, 3.5% - keg was frozen solid. So obviously the night temps have gotten it cold enough to freeze. We where in the mid to low single digits a few weeks ago. Even hitting negative numbers for a few days. Fridge is part of my new brewery redo being moved into the basement as soon as electrical and remodeling is done. (venting, water, sinks etc)
 
Hudini56 said:
S04 left, Conan right. Same batch, split. Ferm temps consistent less the major rise the conan created. Started these 2 at 60deg for 48 hours, moved to 68 deg for 10days. What a change, and 2 completely different beers.
Click to expand...

Unreal. Hard to believe that yeast will have that effect
 

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