Interested in BIAB, need some direction

[hio3791]

I routinely brew 10 gallon batches and I recently converted to electric brewing. I converted my 15.5 gallon Bayou Classic kettle to an eKettle. I love electric brewing. Now, I am curious about taking the leap to BIAB.

My goal would be to ideally remove the need for my cooler MT but if I have to continue to use it because my kettle is too small for 10 gal BIAB batches, then I am open to using a bag in the cooler. I also I understand that I could remove the need for a MT if I sparge or dunk sparge.

Here's what I envision:
1. Get the Bayou Classic strainer for my kettle to support the bag. This would be the preferred solution as it would eliminate the MT. For 10 gallon batches, I would have to sparge but for 5 gallon batches, I should be able to do full volume mashes. However, I am not sure how it'll fit since I now have an element and an RTD sensor in the kettle. But if it did fit, then I could use my PID to maintain the mash temp (and of course, my pump to recirculate the wort).
2. If the strainer didn't fit, I could get a bag for my MT. It's a 15 gal IceCube cooler so I doubt I'll still be able to do full volume mashes for 10 gal batches but I could use the bag to eliminate the braid I have for lautering the mash.

As I see that I have a few options, I'd like to see what people do who brew larger batches than their equipment adequately handles. I am also curious to see how people do BIAB in a cooler, as opposed to using their kettle. How well does it work in a cooler? I guess it wouldn't be any different from batch sparging, which is what I do but the bag would eliminate the braid which I wouldn't mind eliminating if I could.

 

[TexasWine]

I'm new to this BIAB thing, but here's my thought. Don't worry about the steamer basket. You don't need it. Just buy a good bag from Wilserbrewer and it'll be able to withstand the heavy load of the wet grain when you pull it out.

No need to circulate or use the PID for temp control. Just wrap the kettle up in a sleeping bag or two, cover the top with a blanket, and you should be ready to go.

 

[dobe12]

I've been BIAB for about 4yrs now and will try to help. I have to disagree with what texaswine suggests. I actually think using the basket to help lift the grain sack is a good idea. Especially so if you're doing 10 gallon batches. All that wet grain is very heavy and the basket will help.

And if you can recirculate and hold temps, why not? I have an extremely simple setup with a 10gal pot for mashing, 7.5gal pot to dunk sparge, 24"x24" grain sack, and turkery frier burner. That's it. No pumps, temp control, etc. But if I did, I'd surely be using it. When I get my strike water to the proper temp, I wrap the MT with reflective insulation and mash in. It helps hold temps within 1-3 degrees over 60min.

I've tried full volume mash w/no sparge, normal mash thickness w/sparge, thinner mashes with a small sparge... and I've settled into a slightly thinner mash (1.75-2qt/lb) with a dunk sparge in the second pot. This has gotten me the highest efficiencies at 80%+. My goal is to end up with close to equal runnings from my mash and sparge (usually within 1gal or so) I plan on going back and trying full volume again to cut the sparge step, but not if I lose considerable efficiency which I did in the past.

As for using the grain sack inside your cooler, I have a buddy that does it that way and loves it.

 

[hio3791]

Thanks TexasWine. I like your suggestion but I am concerned about the weight of the bag on the element. I imagine 20 lbs of grains when wet is closer to 40 lbs and I would think that could damage the element. I would also be concerned with the RTD probe getting caught on the bag. I suppose I could always use my paddle if the bag got caught but I would hate to tear the bag in the middle of a mash.

 

[TexasWine]

Thanks TexasWine. I like your suggestion but I am concerned about the weight of the bag on the element. I imagine 20 lbs of grains when wet is closer to 40 lbs and I would think that could damage the element. I would also be concerned with the RTD probe getting caught on the bag. I suppose I could always use my paddle if the bag got caught but I would hate to tear the bag in the middle of a mash.

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. You'd have to be careful not to rip the bag and crush the element. If you find that the steamer basket won't work because it sits too low in relation to your element and RTD, then perhaps you could fashion some type of false bottom to hold it off the element and away from the RTD. Anything that can withstand the temp and not leach anything into the wort should work.

But, I do agree that the basket would be the best option. Just trying to throw ideas out there that could make this work for you in case the basket didn't fit. And, I like to keep it simple. For me a pump and PID would be complicated.

 

[wilserbrewer]

. I imagine 20 lbs of grains when wet is closer to 40 lbs and I would think that could damage the element. I would also be concerned with the RTD probe getting caught on the bag. I suppose I could always use my paddle if the bag got caught but I would hate to tear the bag in the middle of a mash.

The bag should be large enough to fully line the kettle and be sitting on the kettle bottom, allowing the element to be encapsulated in the mash. The mash will not rest on the element and put any force on it, but will conform to whatever shape is inside the kettle. A small RTD probe should not be an issue, just be aware of its presence and draw the bag over and out the opposite side of the kettle.

A basket, pump and pid are all very optional IMHO, not really sure any of them make the beer any better or that much easier to brew, but that is just a personal opinion and observance, some like to build high tech, others prefer cave man simple, BIAB works well at both ends of the spectrum.

Cheers!





Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[hio3791]

The bag should be large enough to fully line the kettle and be sitting on the kettle bottom, allowing the element to be encapsulated in the mash. The mash will not rest on the element and put any force on it, but will conform to whatever shape is inside the kettle. A small RTD probe should not be an issue, just be aware of its presence and draw the bag over and out the opposite side of the kettle.

I understand what you are saying. The full weight of the mash will not be entirely supported by the element but distributed, evenly, across the full kettle. Assuming that it doesn't damage the element, then that would work as long as I don't fire the element during the mash. However, that also means I cannot maintain the mash temp in the kettle without external insulation. It also means that I cannot heat up to mash-out which I don't do for batch sparging but I was under the impression that it helps BIAB.

A basket, pump and pid, is that high-tech? LOL It certainly doesn't make beer better and it doesn't make anything easier, that I agree with. I have a pretty ghetto system when compared to many here. But it makes great beer that my family and friends love and that's all it matters. All I am looking to do is simplify my brew day a little.

 

[KeninMN]

So how about the following idea:

I can get a new 7.5 gallon turkey fryer with a 50,000 BTU burner for $50. It's too small for a 5 gallon, full-water BIAB, so I can also get a new, 10 gallon Rubbermaid drink cooler for $45, plus a large enough nylon fine-mesh bag for $7 and a ball valve/bulk head kit for $25. Add a 1/2" NPT barbed fitting and a 3' high temp hose for another $10. Total cost = $137 + tax. Instead of doing all of the BIAB in the 7.5 gallon turkey fryer, or settling for a batch size less than 5 gallons, why not do the full volume mash in the 10 gallon cooler and the full boil in the 7.5 gallon turkey fryer? The turkey fryer pot is tall and narrow, so I'm guessing a boil-off rate of 1/gallon per hour, meaning a 6 gallon boil for a 5-gallon batch, with room to spare to minimize boil-over, or if I want to do 90-minute boils.

Here are the benefits I see:

1. I can drain the wort from the cooler's ball valve into the boiling pot with no need to lift the heavy bag.

2. I also have the option to start with a thicker mash and then sparge if I so desire.

3. I currently only have a 5-gallon stainless steel boiling pot, so instead of spending $400 on a new 10 gallon stainless steel boil pot and appropriately-sized burner I can save $263 + tax by buying the 7.5 gallon aluminum pot/burner combo, the cooler/ball valve and use a cheaper grain bag that doesn't need to be built to withstand lifting heavy, wet grain. Plus my poor back says, "Yay!"

4. If I ever decide to migrate to the full, traditional all-grain method I'm most of the way there on equipment.

Thoughts?

 

[dbkdev]

Thanks TexasWine. I like your suggestion but I am concerned about the weight of the bag on the element. I imagine 20 lbs of grains when wet is closer to 40 lbs and I would think that could damage the element. I would also be concerned with the RTD probe getting caught on the bag. I suppose I could always use my paddle if the bag got caught but I would hate to tear the bag in the middle of a mash.

20 lbs of grain added to water is just 20 lbs... the water doesnt make it heavier, the water still weighs the same. When you remove the grains via pulley or whatever, then the grains weigh more because the increase in weight is just water theyve taken with them. In fact Id imagine if you took a final weight of the bag after taking it out, subtracted 20, and divided the difference by 8.34, you could calculate your total gallons of water lost to grain.

 

[dbkdev]

Also, if you are already doing 10 gallon batches with extract on it, youre probably only adding like ten lbs total weight by switching to grain vs dme. Unless youre doing partial boils right now.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would not bother with the cooler, with only a 7.5 gallon pot the grain bills wont be that heavy, get a ratchet pulley to make lifting easy, pour sparge water gently over and through the grain as the bag is suspended over the kettle. Sure, you may save a little work with the cooler, but your back may also get sore getting the cooler out and washing it and then storing it....You can get a 10 gallon pot for the price of a cooler and just do full volume BIAB...keep it simple IMHO. 1 pot, 1 bag and brew!
cheers!

 

[newnick]

I routinely brew 10 gallon batches and I recently converted to electric brewing. I converted my 15.5 gallon Bayou Classic kettle to an eKettle. I love electric brewing. Now, I am curious about taking the leap to BIAB.

My goal would be to ideally remove the need for my cooler MT but if I have to continue to use it because my kettle is too small for 10 gal BIAB batches, then I am open to using a bag in the cooler. I also I understand that I could remove the need for a MT if I sparge or dunk sparge.

Here's what I envision:
1. Get the Bayou Classic strainer for my kettle to support the bag. This would be the preferred solution as it would eliminate the MT. For 10 gallon batches, I would have to sparge but for 5 gallon batches, I should be able to do full volume mashes. However, I am not sure how it'll fit since I now have an element and an RTD sensor in the kettle. But if it did fit, then I could use my PID to maintain the mash temp (and of course, my pump to recirculate the wort).
2. If the strainer didn't fit, I could get a bag for my MT. It's a 15 gal IceCube cooler so I doubt I'll still be able to do full volume mashes for 10 gal batches but I could use the bag to eliminate the braid I have for lautering the mash.

As I see that I have a few options, I'd like to see what people do who brew larger batches than their equipment adequately handles. I am also curious to see how people do BIAB in a cooler, as opposed to using their kettle. How well does it work in a cooler? I guess it wouldn't be any different from batch sparging, which is what I do but the bag would eliminate the braid which I wouldn't mind eliminating if I could.

I like your plan and would do the same thing if I converted to electric.
You can always modify the basket if it doesn't work right off the bat, it could be as simple as putting legs on it to raise it up if needed. I basically do the same thing as you plan except it's all manual with gas. I fire the burner a couple times while mashing and recirculate with a pump too. I used to wrap the pot and let it set for an hour but I have more fun playing around with it for an hour this way. I would like to automate the burner to maintain temp but then I'd be back to where I was when I just wrapped it and waited. I've solved a few problems I was having by going to this method as well.

 

[GCPHomebrew]

I biab with steamer basket. After mash out I lift the basket set it in my old kettle FWH. Sparge 2-4 gal throughgrain bag in basket. Squeeze bag. Poor in wort. Boil.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[ccbadd]

I started biab'ing with a 11 gal pot using propane and it was just as easy as electric until I wanted to do stepped mashes. I went to ebiab with a pump and pid and there is no guess work (or calculation) to do to mash for 45 minutes @150F then 15 minutes @164F and then 10 minutes @170f for mashout. It can be done on the simpler setup, but your skills need to be a lot better and you will be moving a lot of water around.

 

[CCP]

Just be careful with any basket you add to your pot to support the bag. Many of the Bayou baskets don't allow enough space for a thermowell or even a drain valve.

If you want to eliminate the bag completely on your BIAB adventure, I recommend spending a bit more and going to these guys:

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#biab

A 3/4 round 400-micron basket sized to your pot with 3" feet (avoids scorching) and a lift handle makes the process much easier, and it doesn't interfere with any kettle add-ons.