INFECTION! Would you drink this?

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NScooknet

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Hello all, been a long time since I posted here, been very ill unfortunately.

I am a beer guy, and always wanted to make some wine, so I thought I'd just try out a small batch and see what happened.

Unfortunately, despite my cleanliness routine and thorough sanitizing with TSP followed by this nasty Star San stuff which I've never used before (I cant find iodaphore around here anywhere for some reason) I just checked my little batch only to be disappointed by a nasty infection that looks like mould.

Take a look at this and tell me if you would siphon this off and rack it into a new vessel, or just chuck it. I have not taken off the airlock yet.
Thanks!
:)
20march2019-1.jpg
20march2019-2.jpg
 
Thanks for the reply!

Oh, and BTW, what "is" that stuff at the top of the carboy in your opinion?

Is it just yeast, or something other than mould?
 
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It's hard to tell from the photo...
It's either pulp, yeast, or pellicle.

I feel like you'd know whether there's pulp or fruit bits in your wine... but surprisingly not everyone does.

Brewer's yeast can form clumps at the surface. Some strains are prone to this. I'd be surprised if that's what you have, based on the photo, but it is a possibility.

My guess is that it's a pellicle.
A pellicle would indicate the presence of wild yeast and/or bacteria. It's believed they build this film in response to oxygen. It's not dangerous.
Normal it's a thin white powdery film on the surface. Did you move or otherwise disturb the carboy? That would explain why a pellicle could look like that. If it looks like crumpled up soggy tissue paper that's almost certainly what it is. Clumps of pellicle will usually eventually sink.

Sulfite and protection from oxygen (minimize headspace, avoid aeration, keep closed and airlock topped up, etc) help prevent wild microbe activity and pellicle formation.

I'm pretty sure it's not mold. Take a close look at it. Mold is typically fuzzy. It's often colored like green, blue, brown, gray, black, or yellow, but can be white. In my limited experience mold clumps aggressively float and are extremely hydrophobic, unlike what I see in the photo. It generally has a distinct moldy smell.

Hope this makes sense
 
Thanks for the reply and taking the time to explain all of that.
I've got many many batches of beer under my belt, but I've never attempted wine, so it's a bit new to me.
I am quite familiar with infections in beer, but not in wine.

The part I'm concerned about is the stuff growing on the inside of the glass in the headspace between the surface of the wine and the airlock.

It looks mold colored, but since I cannot yet remove the airlock to look inside I can't see if it is fuzzy or not. I assumed the floating chunks were just yeast, but it's that stuff on the inside of the glass that concerns me.

Do you think that is just yeast?
 
You can remove the air lock long enough to look. It will not damage your wine. Any O2 will be pushed out by the CO2 produced by the yeast.
 
NScooknet said:
The part I'm concerned about is the stuff growing on the inside of the glass in the headspace between the surface of the wine and the airlock.
Click to expand...
The white on the glass above the liquid?
I'm thinking you moved the carboy and the pellicle sloshed around, leaving white residue on the glass. That's exactly how it looks. I maintain a yeast ranch of wild cultures in jars (with pellicles) and that's how they look. I can try to remember to post photos later if you're not convinced.

It could also just be yeast.
Mold wouldn't look like that.
 
Looks fine to me. Pectins in fruit can do weird looking things. Let it buck.

I had a beer where the airlock ran out of water got a surface infection (ie layer of film) kegged it and was a fantastic beer. A person could get more sick eating at a restaurant or grocery store than homebrew.
 
I would let it run its course, you have nothing to lose at this point.

Once I had a blackberry wine that developed some funky looking stuff on top, about 2 days into the ferment bucket. I thought it was ruined. But I keep stirring 3x daily and waited. The batch turned out fine. So let it run its course and see what happens
 
Take a little sample from under the material ( I just use a pipette, you could even sanitize a straw and get enough of a sample to taste ) and smell it then taste it. Maybe do not taste it if it simply smells of mold. It may not be what you were going for, but it might be something interesting and enjoyable.
 
I wouldn't be quick too dump it. I don't make wine but it looks like yeast krausen and floced yeast rafts that are tinted by the red wine pigments. A lacto ferm would look like a fuzzy skim with bubbles. How does it smell?
 
Cantina De Jefe said:
A lacto ferm would look like a fuzzy skim with bubbles
Click to expand...
- Lots of microbes form pellicles. Lactobacillus typically does not.
- "Fuzzy" is a characteristic of mold, not pellicles.
- Bubbles don't form if CO2 is no longer escaping when the pellicle forms.

Here are some things I have going. I tried to capture the white film on the glass that can form.

20190321_141014.jpg



20190321_140940.jpg



20190321_140352.jpg



20190321_140119.jpg


Cheers
 
Thanks for the replies guys :)
That 2nd pic looks an awful lot like what I have, so, I guess it's nothing to really worry about.
Like I say, this is just a small test batch to play around with, and to be honest, I just wanted something to ferment and give off c02 inside my cannabis grow tent, lol.

If I get to drink it also, that's a bonus, haha.
 
RPh_Guy said:
- Lots of microbes form pellicles. Lactobacillus typically does not.
- "Fuzzy" is a characteristic of mold, not pellicles.
- Bubbles don't form if CO2 is no longer escaping when the pellicle forms.

Here are some things I have going. I tried to capture the white film on the glass that can form.

View attachment 618484


View attachment 618485


View attachment 618486


View attachment 618487

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting your infection examples. Interesting! So, with that as guidance, it now looks as though the OP does indeed have some kind of unintended bio film. :eek:
 
NScooknet said:
Thanks for the replies guys :)
That 2nd pic looks an awful lot like what I have, so, I guess it's nothing to really worry about.
Like I say, this is just a small test batch to play around with, and to be honest, I just wanted something to ferment and give off c02 inside my cannabis grow tent, lol.

If I get to drink it also, that's a bonus, haha.
Click to expand...

i thought for co2 in a pot house, you needed a lot of stoners to sit around and worship it?
 
NScooknet said:
It's medical, not for entertainment, I'm a cancer survivor and suffer from severe chronic pain and an autoimmune disease.
Click to expand...
Does it help with chronic pain? I had thought it was for treating nausea while cancer patients are doing chemotherapy.

I'd really like to know, because my wife has chronic pain that's nearly fully disabling (it's already partially disabling), and we're not sure what to do about it.
 
Yes, it helps alot with chronic pain, especially if you take CBD oil like I do, you cannot get stoned from it, but be careful if you take THC oil, you might be unpleasantly surprised lol.
It's legal here in Canada, not sure if you can get it for medical purposes in Texas or not, but if you can, try it out, it literally saved my life.
 
A non-drug approach to pain management that may be helpful is hypnotherapy. Most people in the US would prefer to “take” something, but when those things aren’t helpful hypnosis may fit the bill. Feel free to PM me if you are interested in more information.
 
48E3EBEA-EC8A-46F3-9104-22F5EAF7ECD5.jpeg
E866412D-0FB3-4A4A-85CB-B064C81133E1.jpeg
68741179-4820-44A9-BF19-15CC58EBF68D.jpeg

The bucket was a surprise, the gallon carboy contains what was transferred with Brett added and kept at 85F with a small aquarium heater. Turned out okay. I’ll be sharing it with some funk aficionados for an opinion. Threw in a pic of the finished product since it looks fine for drinking.
 
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NeverDie said:
Does it help with chronic pain? I had thought it was for treating nausea while cancer patients are doing chemotherapy.

I'd really like to know, because my wife has chronic pain that's nearly fully disabling (it's already partially disabling), and we're not sure what to do about it.
Click to expand...
My wife uses it (CDB) for pain management as well as a couple of good friends of ours. It works well for all of them and is available online through Amazon.
One uses it for diabetic nerve pain, the second hsan old back injury, the other has Chrones (sp?)


https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07MVKG9CF/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Thanks! This turned out to be very timely information. We stopped at a CBD store on our way to dinner tonight. It turns out to not only be sold over the counter, but they even give free samples! Who knew? Seems to work quite well. You can feel strong effects within 3 minutes.

Seems much better than ibuprofen!
 
You can also get CBD isolate powder, but that definitely comes from a dispensary :)
I find it works really well also, better than the oil actually.
 
Back to the original question, I didn't see anyone ask how long it has been fermenting. If for a week or less I would say that is krausen or whatever they call the foam on top during fermentation for wine. Hard to tell from the pictures but I don't see anything that I would immediately call bad.
 
kh54s10 said:
Back to the original question, I didn't see anyone ask how long it has been fermenting. If for a week or less I would say that is krausen or whatever they call the foam on top during fermentation for wine. Hard to tell from the pictures but I don't see anything that I would immediately call bad.
Click to expand...

This has been sitting for about 2 weeks now, the fermentation has stopped, and I have still not opened it to smell/taste it yet.
I'm worried that if it doesn't have an infection I'll give it one by opening it without proper sanitation, meaning being ready to rack it into the next carboy.

I want some iodaphore before I do that, that nasty chemical Star San stuff is downright dangerous if you read the label.

You'll probably laugh, but this is simply a cup of frozen blueberries, a cup of frozen cherries, and a cup of sugar, with a dry champagne yeast added. Like I say, breaking all the rules for wine making, but just an experiment.

I've been brewing beer for many years now, but have not brewed for almost 4 years now, due to illness I need to keep off the sauce :)
 
Starsan is not at all nasty when mixed properly. In fact there was a video of a 5 star technician drinking some.... It is only dangerous in it's concentrated form. You did mix one ounce to 5 gallon ration didn't you? IMO, iodine staining would be far more of a hassle than Starsan. I would bet that if you read the label on Iodaphor the warnings would be similar. I have been using Starsan since 2011 and don't plan on using anything else.

Opening for a smell, even a taste is not likely to cause a problem. Sanitize your equipment first - use the Starsan if properly mixed.

Frozen blueberries, cherries... I think that is just pulp from the fruit that is still floating.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. But who knows? When you taste it you will know.
 
^This. Fruit. I am 100% sure that I'm probably almost likely not wrong about that.
Seriously tho, it looks like fruit/krausen/yeast schnibbles.
Technical term.
 
NScooknet said:
I want some iodaphore before I do that, that nasty chemical Star San stuff is downright dangerous if you read the label.
Click to expand...

Aside from the packaged concentration, what about it is dangerous? Looking at the datasheet, it appears that the active ingredient is just phosphoric acid: https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Star-San-HB4.pdf I mean, for comparison, that's an ingredient in coca cola.

Unless there's more to the picture than meets the eye, I think I'd worry more about ingesting too much iodine from iodaphore than I would about star san. Am I missing something?
 
I racked it into another carboy, and stole a bit out to test.
I'm actually surprised, it's clearing nicely, and it actually tastes OK. It's very weak though, needs more body, more fruit.
Very slightly fizzy with just a few bubbles.
After a sip I could definitely feel the alcohol, so I'll let the rest age now and check it in a month or so and see how it is then.
22march2019-1.jpg
22march2019-2.jpg
 
When I actually make a "serious" batch of wine, I'll pay more attention to detail, I've already learned alot. Thanks all :)
 

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