I am daydreaming again... but, if I wanted to do BIAB on a commercial scale, and I had 1 (or several) bags hanging that I wanted to squeeze, and I wanted to create a squeezing mechanism (a gigantic rubber band? a cinch? not sure), how much pressure could I apply before I would split/break the bag?
Industrial Squeeze for a Wilser bag??
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I do believe that the amount of pressure that can be safely exerted is in direct relation to the number of pounds of grain and liquid in the bag at the time but I suggest asking Wilser directly.
short answer is that you cant do it like you're thinking. the bag/grains need to be contained in a vessel so that they can be compressed.
not sure of your generational identification, but you old enough to remember water-weenies? that's what it'll do. compress where you squeeze and bulge out everywhere else.
has to be contained in a vessel. like caulk in a tube, pushed out with a plunger. or coffee in a french press. (sort of)
you get the idea.
not sure of your generational identification, but you old enough to remember water-weenies? that's what it'll do. compress where you squeeze and bulge out everywhere else.
has to be contained in a vessel. like caulk in a tube, pushed out with a plunger. or coffee in a french press. (sort of)
you get the idea.
CLAP HANDS, Snap out of the dream!!!
IME, simply letting the bag hang and drain over the kettle for an extended period produces similar wort volume as squeezing.
I really don't think The 3B brewery operations I sell to care to bother squeezing the last few pints.
Try letting your grain bag drain via gravity for an honest 40 minutes and report back how much you were able to squeeze out?
Conversely take your squeezed bag and hang it to drip drain for 30 minutes?
Imo squeezing appears very productive because most often the bag has not been allowed to gravity drain, misleading the squeezer to think that he is producing additional wort, when in reality all he is producing is additional work, drops make pints, pints make gallons
IME, simply letting the bag hang and drain over the kettle for an extended period produces similar wort volume as squeezing.
I really don't think The 3B brewery operations I sell to care to bother squeezing the last few pints.
Try letting your grain bag drain via gravity for an honest 40 minutes and report back how much you were able to squeeze out?
Conversely take your squeezed bag and hang it to drip drain for 30 minutes?
Imo squeezing appears very productive because most often the bag has not been allowed to gravity drain, misleading the squeezer to think that he is producing additional wort, when in reality all he is producing is additional work, drops make pints, pints make gallons
CLAP HANDS, Snap out of the dream!!!
IME, simply letting the bag hang and drain over the kettle for an extended period produces similar wort volume as squeezing.
I really don't think The 3B brewery operations I sell to care to bother squeezing the last few pints.
Try letting your grain bag drain via gravity for an honest 40 minutes and report back how much you were able to squeeze out?
Conversely take your squeezed bag and hang it to drip drain for 30 minutes?
Imo squeezing appears very productive because most often the bag has not been allowed to gravity drain, misleading the squeezer to think that he is producing additional wort, when in reality all he is producing is additional work, drops make pints, pints make gallons
While your bags hanging for 40 minutes what do you do.
CLAP HANDS, Snap out of the dream!!!
IME, simply letting the bag hang and drain over the kettle for an extended period produces similar wort volume as squeezing.
I really don't think The 3B brewery operations I sell to care to bother squeezing the last few pints.
Try letting your grain bag drain via gravity for an honest 40 minutes and report back how much you were able to squeeze out?
Conversely take your squeezed bag and hang it to drip drain for 30 minutes?
Imo squeezing appears very productive because most often the bag has not been allowed to gravity drain, misleading the squeezer to think that he is producing additional wort, when in reality all he is producing is additional work, drops make pints, pints make gallons
I think in my daydream I'm trying to speed up the process so I can boil and empty that kettle so i can start another batch
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Bring the wort to a boil, let the hot break fall into the kettle and add the first hop addition, relax for a bit, and then remove the bag and dispose of the grain and clean the bag. Trust me, if it adds time or work I try hard to avoid it.
The time critical activity is to get the wort boiling, not taking down the
the hanging grain bag.
If the last quart or two of wort hits the kettle ten minutes into the boil so be it....rdwhahb
cloudybrewer
Well-Known Member
I have Wilser's bag and ratcheting pulley. My last brew I let the bag hang four feet above the pot for over an hour, taking it down about ten minutes before flame out. Just to test it, I gave it a hard squeeze and got out a couple ounces, hardly worth worrying about. I get to start the burner less than a minute after the mash, and there's no extra squeezing tools to wash. Works well.
lets not forget that extract is also related to temp. That hanging bag is cooling, leading to stickier grist and clinging sugars. Squeezing/sparging while hot does release more sugary wort. I speak from experience on a single vessel 3bbl set up where squeezing is not an option. Cooled grains run slower and less sugar released. Took a while to figure that solution out on large scale.
As to volume of wort released by squeezing vs dripping id still think squeezing wins, but by how much i could not say. Might be less than you think.
As to volume of wort released by squeezing vs dripping id still think squeezing wins, but by how much i could not say. Might be less than you think.
I have supplied many135 gallon kettle bags, and also 500 liter kettle bags.
That's a touch over 4 bbl kettle size. I believe finished batch was 3 bbl.
How much cooling can you get on a grain bill for a 3 bbl batch during draining? Viscosity of a 20 Plato wort increases about 11% if the wort cools from 150°F to 140°F (ref), so according to the Darcy equation flow rate will go down by about 11%. Doesn't seem like that would cause a huge difference in retained wort over a long drain period.
Also Kai Troester has shown that low temp batch sparging has the same efficiency as high temp batch sparging.
Have you measured the SG of the wort in the BK immediately after pulling the bag/basket, and then measured the SG of the last wort to drip out at the end of draining? If the last wort has a higher SG than the initial wort, then either you didn't stir adequately prior to draining, or your conversion was incomplete when you pulled the bag/basket, and conversion continued to occur during draining. If conversion is continuing during draining, then lower temps would slow this down, resulting in a lower conversion efficiency, and thus a lower mash efficiency.
Brew on
ZmannR2
Well-Known Member
What I do is while it hangs over my now heating wort, I pour in sparge water (or cold water if I’m lazy) through the grains to top off my boil to the exact amount I need. I then remove my wet grains before too much gets into the kettle
However this would be impossible without a sight glass/side markings
However this would be impossible without a sight glass/side markings
How much cooling can you get on a grain bill for a 3 bbl batch during draining? Viscosity of a 20 Plato wort increases about 11% if the wort cools from 150°F to 140°F (ref), so according to the Darcy equation flow rate will go down by about 11%. Doesn't seem like that would cause a huge difference in retained wort over a long drain period.
Also Kai Troester has shown that low temp batch sparging has the same efficiency as high temp batch sparging.
Have you measured the SG of the wort in the BK immediately after pulling the bag/basket, and then measured the SG of the last wort to drip out at the end of draining? If the last wort has a higher SG than the initial wort, then either you didn't stir adequately prior to draining, or your conversion was incomplete when you pulled the bag/basket, and conversion continued to occur during draining. If conversion is continuing during draining, then lower temps would slow this down, resulting in a lower conversion efficiency, and thus a lower mash efficiency.
Brew on
at 168F there is no activity. and nobody said you would get less volume. what you will get is less volume per unit of time. and when the grist gums up, you got other problems. add anything with glucans and it goes down hill fast. an hour sparge is plenty of time for a hoisted container to lose temp. mash tun becomes a radiator pulling heat off the grist, you can have channeling, running out to the edges, thermal gradients, etc. etc. etc.
equations and theory are great, in theory.
and as i noted above, im not debating the volume of wort. either way its not practical at this size.
fragged
Well-Known Member
Spot on to my experience as usual. Squeezed my first batch with my Wilser bag like I'd always done before. After the pain and extra work of that one, I decided to let the next one hang and see what happens. Haven't squeezed a bag or looked back since...CLAP HANDS, Snap out of the dream!!!
IME, simply letting the bag hang and drain over the kettle for an extended period produces similar wort volume as squeezing.
I really don't think The 3B brewery operations I sell to care to bother squeezing the last few pints.
Try letting your grain bag drain via gravity for an honest 40 minutes and report back how much you were able to squeeze out?
Conversely take your squeezed bag and hang it to drip drain for 30 minutes?
Imo squeezing appears very productive because most often the bag has not been allowed to gravity drain, misleading the squeezer to think that he is producing additional wort, when in reality all he is producing is additional work, drops make pints, pints make gallons
Mine hangs from Mash out to First hop, usually more dry than I ever got it when squeezing by that time.
In short, screw squeezing.
fragged
Well-Known Member
double post...
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I let mine drain while I go and measure first wort gravity and ph. (and pet the dog) I then squeeze (push down with a pizza pan)
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