I'm struggling. Need help.

[butterblum]

Hey all,
I am a struggling amateur homebrewer. I have completed 3 batches, and am now on my fourth. All three of my first batches have eventually spoiled (or so I believe). I have bottled all three, and I believe I now have a bunch of bottles that I need to pitch.
I don't exactly know where to begin, but I can say that all three of my batches seem to suffer from the same off taste. My first batch had bottles that poured with quite a bit of head, although my others haven't had that problem. My 2 most recent batches put out some bottles that tasted quite good, but as the unopened bottles sat for longer periods of time, they seemed to develop off tastes. For all I know, these bottles had the off tastes the entire time, but I have a hunch that they developed the longer they sat. I kept these at cellar temperature here in Ohio, so probably about 70 degrees in the summer. I had never cleaned the bottles which I had bought from my LHBS, so I thoroughly (or so I think) scrubbed them for my third batch, however it still came out the same way (though I got to enjoy a nice 6 pack of it before I came up with a bunch of duds).
From what I can remember, before racking to a bottling bucket, all three batches tasted great, which is why the results are so disappointing. Because of this, I am assuming this means the source of the problem occurs during bottling. Because I would like to try and eliminate these issues, I have built a kegerator and will be racking to two cornys instead of bottles.
I really need help. Is this wild yeast or air contaminants? I live in a campus home and boil in my kitchen, which I can't get away from. Is this purely a sanitation issue? Am I cleaning wrong?
I have absolutely loved homebrewing and have been upgrading my equipment and designing new setups, however, I can't keep spending money if I keep coming up with dud batches. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[passedpawn]

Do this, and do it before you brew again.

• Get some starsan santizer.
• Get a spray bottle from Home depot, fill it with a little Starsan and water, and spray down EVERYTHING when you brew. Don't rinse. Especially, spray anything that might touch the wort after boiling.
• Don't mess with your fermenting beer in ANY way during the first 10 days. Just let it go. Trust me, ESPECIALLY if you're brewing in buckets.
• Get a bottling tree.
• Get a vinator to sit on top of the bottling tree.
• Put your caps in the vinator while bottling to sanitize them.

If there's something in that list you're not familiar with, google it. If you're near FL, PM me, I've got a tree and vinator I'll never use again.

 

[Kevin79]

Hey all,
I am a struggling amateur homebrewer. I have completed 3 batches, and am now on my fourth. All three of my first batches have eventually spoiled (or so I believe). I have bottled all three, and I believe I now have a bunch of bottles that I need to pitch.
I don't exactly know where to begin, but I can say that all three of my batches seem to suffer from the same off taste. My first batch had bottles that poured with quite a bit of head, although my others haven't had that problem. My 2 most recent batches put out some bottles that tasted quite good, but as the unopened bottles sat for longer periods of time, they seemed to develop off tastes. For all I know, these bottles had the off tastes the entire time, but I have a hunch that they developed the longer they sat. I kept these at cellar temperature here in Ohio, so probably about 70 degrees in the summer. I had never cleaned the bottles which I had bought from my LHBS, so I thoroughly (or so I think) scrubbed them for my third batch, however it still came out the same way (though I got to enjoy a nice 6 pack of it before I came up with a bunch of duds).
From what I can remember, before racking to a bottling bucket, all three batches tasted great, which is why the results are so disappointing. Because of this, I am assuming this means the source of the problem occurs during bottling. Because I would like to try and eliminate these issues, I have built a kegerator and will be racking to two cornys instead of bottles.
I really need help. Is this wild yeast or air contaminants? I live in a campus home and boil in my kitchen, which I can't get away from. Is this purely a sanitation issue? Am I cleaning wrong?
I have absolutely loved homebrewing and have been upgrading my equipment and designing new setups, however, I can't keep spending money if I keep coming up with dud batches. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

Can you describe the off taste? Are you keeping your bottles in a dark place? Are you using a bottling wand to bottle or are you bottling straight from the spigot?

 

[butterblum]

Can you describe the off taste? Are you keeping your bottles in a dark place? Are you using a bottling wand to bottle or are you bottling straight from the spigot?

I really have a hard time describing it. I will try a bottle later and try to figure it out. All of the bottles are kept in their original boxes from the LHBS, and I am using a bottling wand.

 

[treacheroustexan]

What part of Ohio?

 

[Kevin79]

I really have a hard time describing it. I will try a bottle later and try to figure it out. All of the bottles are kept in their original boxes from the LHBS, and I am using a bottling wand.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

^This might help you put a name to the taste and identify a cause.

 

[okiedog]

Butterblum, it is unfortunate that you have had to toss much of your beer. It is a real bummer to lose even one batch. What I would suggest first, is that you set down with pen and paper and mentally go through your entire brewing process. Make a note of every step from the perspective of cleaning and sanitation. Every pot, utensil etc needs to be thoroughly cleaned and rinsed before use. After the boil through bottling/kegging, anything that touches your wort (or that your wort touches) needs to be sanitized. That includes your yeast package, scissors, or slurry jar. Hoses, racking canes, stoppers, airlocks, bottles, kegs, all need to be clean and sanitized. Also, keep your wort covered between boil and the fermenter. You will have to narrow down the source. Don't despair, it's probably something simple. There is lots of help available in this forum.

 

[butterblum]

I am in Columbus.
I just opened a bottle, and honestly, the beer smells like grape juice, or maybe fermenting grape juice. I distinctly remember thinking while tasting my first batch that it had maybe a taste more similar to wine than anything.

 

[Kevin79]

I am in Columbus.
I just opened a bottle, and honestly, the beer smells like grape juice, or maybe fermenting grape juice. I distinctly remember thinking while tasting my first batch that it had maybe a taste more similar to wine than anything.

It's possible you are tasting esters made from high fermentation temperatures. Typically they tend to be perceived more as tasting like bananas, peach, or apples though. I live in PA so I have similar weather to you. If you're living in a place where the temperature is normally in the high 60's to low 70's remember your beer can be fermenting 5 degrees higher than that temperature. So if your thermostat is set at 70 degrees, your beer could be fermenting around 75 degrees (well out of the desired range for most yeasts). Don't trust those stick on thermometers that go on your fermenter either. The inner temperature is always going to be significantly higher than what can be read on the outside. A swamp cooler, a wet towel over the fermenter with a fan blowing on it, or both used together can help significantly with this.

 

[butterblum]

It's possible you are tasting esters made from high fermentation temperatures. Typically they tend to be perceived more as tasting like bananas, peach, or apples though. I live in PA so I have similar weather to you. If you're living in a place where the temperature is normally in the high 60's to low 70's remember your beer can be fermenting 5 degrees higher than that temperature. So if your thermostat is set at 70 degrees, your beer could be fermenting around 75 degrees (well out of the desired range for most yeasts). Don't trust those stick on thermometers that go on your fermenter either. The inner temperature is always going to be significantly higher than what can be read on the outside. A swamp cooler, a wet towel over the fermenter with a fan blowing on it, or both used together can help significantly with this.

I drilled a hole in the lid of my plastic bucket and have a thermowell with a temperature sensor attached to an STC-1000. Temperature control isn't the issue.

 

[butterblum]

Butterblum, it is unfortunate that you have had to toss much of your beer. It is a real bummer to lose even one batch. What I would suggest first, is that you set down with pen and paper and mentally go through your entire brewing process. Make a note of every step from the perspective of cleaning and sanitation. Every pot, utensil etc needs to be thoroughly cleaned and rinsed before use. After the boil through bottling/kegging, anything that touches your wort (or that your wort touches) needs to be sanitized. That includes your yeast package, scissors, or slurry jar. Hoses, racking canes, stoppers, airlocks, bottles, kegs, all need to be clean and sanitized. Also, keep your wort covered between boil and the fermenter. You will have to narrow down the source. Don't despair, it's probably something simple. There is lots of help available in this forum.

How do you keep your wort covered during cooling? I thought that covering with the kettle lid could actually be worse if condensation drips back into the wort.
Is it possible that wild yeast introduced during bottling could be feeding on priming sugar that wouldn't be there if kegging?

 

[theseeker4]

Hey all,
I am a struggling amateur homebrewer. I have completed 3 batches, and am now on my fourth. All three of my first batches have eventually spoiled (or so I believe). I have bottled all three, and I believe I now have a bunch of bottles that I need to pitch.
I don't exactly know where to begin, but I can say that all three of my batches seem to suffer from the same off taste. My first batch had bottles that poured with quite a bit of head, although my others haven't had that problem. My 2 most recent batches put out some bottles that tasted quite good, but as the unopened bottles sat for longer periods of time, they seemed to develop off tastes. For all I know, these bottles had the off tastes the entire time, but I have a hunch that they developed the longer they sat. I kept these at cellar temperature here in Ohio, so probably about 70 degrees in the summer. I had never cleaned the bottles which I had bought from my LHBS, so I thoroughly (or so I think) scrubbed them for my third batch, however it still came out the same way (though I got to enjoy a nice 6 pack of it before I came up with a bunch of duds).
From what I can remember, before racking to a bottling bucket, all three batches tasted great, which is why the results are so disappointing. Because of this, I am assuming this means the source of the problem occurs during bottling. Because I would like to try and eliminate these issues, I have built a kegerator and will be racking to two cornys instead of bottles.
I really need help. Is this wild yeast or air contaminants? I live in a campus home and boil in my kitchen, which I can't get away from. Is this purely a sanitation issue? Am I cleaning wrong?
I have absolutely loved homebrewing and have been upgrading my equipment and designing new setups, however, I can't keep spending money if I keep coming up with dud batches. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

What is your cleaning and sanitization process, both for the brewing and the bottling? Do you notice any strange film or anything on the surface of the beer? Describe what you have done with your batches, start to finish, including your bottling process.

 

[theseeker4]

How do you keep your wort covered during cooling? I thought that covering with the kettle lid could actually be worse if condensation drips back into the wort.
Is it possible that wild yeast introduced during bottling could be feeding on priming sugar that wouldn't be there if kegging?

You want to keep the lid off during the boil to drive off dsm, but after boiling you can cover it to keep contaminants out.

 

[butterblum]

What is your cleaning and sanitization process, both for the brewing and the bottling? Do you notice any strange film or anything on the surface of the beer? Describe what you have done with your batches, start to finish, including your bottling process.

From start to finish:
1) I prepare 5 gallons of StarSan solution in the bucket that i will be using as my primary fermenter.
2) I place my stainless steel spoon, my strainer, my airlock, my scissors, my thermowell, my test tube, my rubber grommets, my turkey baster, and my hydrometer into the StarSan solution.
3) I boil and add my copper wort chiller for the last 15 minutes of the boil.
4) I remove from the boil and cool using the wort chiller. I only used my lid as cover on my first batch, which turned out equally poor (as the kettle shrunk due to heat loss, the lid got stuck on the kettle)
5) I monitor the temperature of the cooling wort using a sanitized thermometer, and I stir the wort to help it cool using a sanitized stainless steel spoon. I use this spoon during the boil, so I give it a quick clean before I sanitize it.
6) Once cooled, I transfer the StarSan solution to another plastic bucket and transfer the cooled wort to the primary fermenter (I haven't cleaned it on brewing day, as I think I have done a good job cleaning after fermentation and have kept it covered with a lid until the next brew day), pouring through the sanitized strainer.
7) I will now top off the batch to reach my target gravity. Sometimes I use spring water from Kroger, sometimes I use tap water from the hose attached to the kitchen sink.
8) I use the sanitized turkey baster and test tube to collect a sample and test my gravity.
9) To aerate the wort, I stir the wort like crazy using the sanitized stainless spoon, being careful not to scratch the plastic bucket with it.
10) I sanitize the yeast packet, cut it open with sanitized scissors, and pitch the yeast.
11) I sanitize the lid of the fermenter and seal it up, inserting the thermowell and airlock.

Bottling:
1) Sanitize bottle tree
2) Clean and scrub bottles, place on bottle tree
3) Sanitize auto-siphon and plastic tubing by pumping Star San through them multiple times
4) Boil sugar-water mixture
5) Cool mixture
6) Dump mixture into bottom of sanitized bottling bucket
7) Rack beer on top of mixture, carefully stir without aerating
8) Switch auto-siphon to bottling bucket, cover bucket with exception of the auto-siphon
9) Sanitize bottling wand
10) Submerge bottles and caps in Star San solution
11) Only pull out individual bottles when ready to bottle, cover each with sanitized caps after filling
12) Cap all bottles at once

 

[butterblum]

What tools do people use to clean their supplies (tools to use for scrubbing)?
How do you know when it is sufficiently clean?

 

[mbobhat]

One suggestion, don't use water through a rubber hose for your wort , to me it can pick up bad flavors and possibly an infection. I had a problem with that and had to dump a batch. If I do ever use tap water without doing anything to it (I usually just use a carbon filter) I let it sit in clean gallon jugs for at least a week so that any chlorine bleach at least goes away. I mean it really depends on when and how bad your city uses bleach (like when they shock the system).
I would really recommend getting a carbon filter, they are pretty cheap and you can get ones that are disposable or with a housing you can change filters. Then get some clear plastic tubing and some hose fittings from Home depot and use that from your spigot.

http://www.homebrewstuff.com/10-carbon-water-filter.html

 

[JosephN]

Yeah I never use water from my spigot that hasn't been sanitized. You can pre-boil some water to use later to kill any bugs and get rid of the chlorine.

I would make sure to cover my wort while it chills. I have a wort chiller, like you, and I had to cut a notch in my lid to allow the arms of the chiller to come out while the lid sits tightly in place. If I had it around I would take a pic of it. I also take a small towel and cover up or drape it over any small space that is between the arms of the chiller and the kettle notching.

I also bake my bottles in the oven. I don't know if you have one in your living situation, but it will STERILIZE your bottles. Sterilizing is different than sanitizing. If you clean the bottles as normal, they don't have to completely dry, cap them with little pieces of aluminum foil, lay them in the oven (stacked), turn temp to 250F for 15 mins, then 300F for 15 mins, then 350F for 1hr, let them sit in the oven and cool on their own. This will sterilize them. You can set them aside for bottling down the road, or use them the next day. When you get ready just pull the foil off and fill the bottle, take a sanitized cap out of your solution and place it on the bottle. There is no need to clamp the caps right away, nothing will get in there. Trust me I've bottles 600 gallons of beer in the last 3 months and have not had one issue.

 

[mbobhat]

What tools do people use to clean their supplies (tools to use for scrubbing)?
How do you know when it is sufficiently clean?

Scrubby sponge that has a tough and a soft side, that's it. Don't be scrapin away on plastic or you will pick up infections in the scratches. It doesn't take much. Also you can use Powder Brewery wash or 3:1 mix of Oxyclean(off brand is ok) and sodium metasilicate (also called TSP 90 at ACE Hardware is where I can find it). It will clean any gunk that is stuck on easily with minimal scrubbing. I use it on burnt on pans that I sometimes get cooking.

Really though, if you are gentle on it and don't scratch it, you should just give things a quick clean when you are done, then sanitize before you use.

As for bottles, I wouldn't go as far as baking them, that seems extreme. I have one of those spray nozzles that attach to your faucet if you need to get gunk out of the bottom. I usually look at them through a light to make sure they look clean on the bottom, then dunk in hot water and starsan. Then As I'm bottling I take a few out or have a helper take them out as I go.

 

[JosephN]

I pull my bottles from the recycling center, and bake them to make 100% sure they are clean, only after soaking them for several days in what starts out as hot bleach water. I still bake them because I don't want starsan residue in my bottles and if I have them baked and waiting then that is one less thing I have to do on bottling day. I know, to each their own, but I thought I would explain why I bake them.

 

[menerdari]

I use oxyclean myself, I also have a bottle brush, carboy brush and scrubby sponge.
Make sure if you get oxyclean to buy the oxyclean free in the green tub, it has no perfumes or dyes.

 

[JLeuck64]

7) I will now top off the batch to reach my target gravity. Sometimes I use spring water from Kroger, sometimes I use tap water from the hose attached to the kitchen sink.

plus 1 to what others have said about using the garden hose to top off.

as you progress through brewing the closer you get to full boils and avoid topping off with water the better your beer will taste. Period!

Sounds like you have fermentation under control.

May I ask what style or styles of beers have you been making? Are you using LME or DME or all grain in your recipes?

 

[butterblum]

I have only brewed pale ales and IPAs thus far. The recipes have required steeping specialty grains, but I have used both DME and LME.

 

[JLeuck64]

oh man... I hope your not trying to explain that taste from extract beers. If you're used to store bought stuff and when you first get into homebrewing it won't taste right to you. My 1st 30 batches using LME never tasted right, except for some of the darker beers those tasted OK. Once I made the switch to all grain all the lighter beers... IPA's, Hefe's, Ambers started tasting great! It's the big russian imperial stouts that have been tough to figure out after making the switch to AG...

I'm sure there are some extract brewers that can get ya pointed in the right direction though, hang in there

 

[butterblum]

Well my issue is that I have been making beer that tastes great initially, except that the beer seems to worsen after a few weeks in the bottle. So it seems that the off flavors aren't inherent to the extract, but are something wrong with my process.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Is there a local homebrew club or LHBS you can go to? Bring a bottle, they'll help diagnose the problem. You can also find somebody to hang out with you while brewing. Its a great social activity, and a more experienced brewer can help you make better beer while learning the ropes. Learning in a vacuum might be impossible, and while HBT helps it is still not as good as actually spending some time in person with experienced brewers.