If I brewed a stout with this profile...?

[alers22]

I am new to water chemistry so I am hoping someone can tell me what type of beer I can expect from using filtered, unaltered tap water. I am brewing a Founders Breakfast Stout clone. I have been tinkering with EZ Water but I am curious about the differences in tap vs. adjusted water.

Here is my water chemistry:

Ca 27
Mg 3.9
Na 18.6
Cl 14.3
Sulfate 54.1
Carbonate Alk 57

Thanks!

 

[ajdelange]

Should be fine for a lot of beers stout among them. You might want to supplement the calcium and chloride to the extent of perhaps a half tsp per 5 gal. You may also wish to consider diluting 2 or 3 to 1 with RO water and using the Primer's suggestions to get started.

 

[mabrungard]

Hmmm? AJ says yes, but I say no...and not just no, but heck no! In addition, the adjustments he goes on to recommend will make it much worse. He keeps quoting a Michael Lewis recipe for a stout that bears little resemblance to what many brewers use in creating their stouts and porters. If there is any crystal in the OP's recipe, the mash pH will be lower than desirable and the beer will be thin and tart. Since most drinkers enjoy their stouts and porters thick and round, I recommend a starkly different approach.

The alkalinity of the OP's water is quite modest and is a great place to start for many beers. But in the case of a more acidic grist like a stout, it probably doesn't have enough alkalinity to help maintain a proper mash pH.

There are a couple of options for avoiding a low pH in this case. The easiest is to not add any hardness minerals (Ca, Mg) to the mashing water. Add those Ca and Mg additions directly to the kettle. This avoids further depressing the RA of the mashing water, which depresses the mash pH. Another option is to reserve the crystal and roast malts from the main mash and add them at the end of the mash. Another option would be to add alkalinity to the mashing water to neutralize the acidity contributions of the roast and crystal malts.

Any of those options could be feasible. I'm surprised that AJ didn't mention that you should check the mash pH to assess if his recommendations were suited to your brewing, but maybe the Primer mentions that. A pH meter is the best option, but I suggest that Bru'n Water can provide a decent estimate of how the mash pH will respond. It also gives a brewer the chance to check out those options I mention above.

I certainly invite you to use AJ's recommendations, but I implore you to report back here with your results. I'm pretty sure you'll parrot my remarks.

Enjoy!

 

[ajdelange]

It says 'for a lot of beers stout among them' which wasn't intended to be interpreted as meaning stouts exclusively. What I did mean to say was that he could dilute to the point where the sulfate and alkalinity are no longer significant and then approach the whole business based on the Primer which, as he is a beginner is probably a good idea. I could have been clearer on that though.

He probably would be OK even with a fair amount of other dark malts and certainly would be OK for an Irish Stout (the recipe in Michael Lewis's book is actually attributable to Ashton Lewis who wrote the 'Brewing Stouts at Home' Chapter). Looking at the other recipes in that chapter I don't believe any of them would bust low even with RO water but as I haven't brewed any but the Irish I can't really say.

It is axiomatic, IMO, that a pH meter should be used especially when fiddling with dark beers on the edge and the Primer does suggest use of a pH meter for all brewing. I do get weary of typing that over and over again but it is, of course, an important point.

I disagree that most like thick stouts. I for one feel that beauty lies in nuance - not that if some is good more is necessarily better and this is why, of course, I love the German lagers and ales. I haven't the temerity to suggest that my tastes are better than anyone elses nor that they represent the majority opinion either.

 

[GotPushrods]

I just looked up the recipe and entered it into my sheet. I would actually require 3 oz of acid malt to get me to a pH of 5.42 at room temperature!

That assumes a congress mash pH of 4.7 for the roasted malts and 4.6 for the crystal 120.

Still not enough acid to pull the pH of the mash too low. At least in my experience with trusting my numbers to be close.

Worst case, you're either perfect as is, or require a VERY minute amount of alkalinity. But I doubt it.


If I had a dollar for every time I had my pickling lime ready... and the pH meter told me to put it away....


EDIT: I didn't include the coffee. Toss the acid malt and you're probably perfect as is. I won't bet my life on it, but I'm tellin ya, don't anticipate needing a ton of alkali. You won't need it.

 

[DSmith]

Last week I brewed an Oatmeal Stout with 88 ppm alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) after blending tap water with RO water and got a mash pH at 15 min of 5.40 (room temp). Not too different from the grain bill for the Founder's breakfast stout. Crisp Maris Otter was the base grain.

Sparged with 0 alkalinity water (RO).

I added minimal CaCl2 and no CaSO4, treating all the water the same (50 ppm Ca, 70 ppm Cl2, 3 ppm SO4 from blended water).

 

[ajdelange]

I just looked up the recipe and entered it into my sheet. I would actually require 3 oz of acid malt to get me to a pH of 5.42 at room temperature!

That assumes a congress mash pH of 4.7 for the roasted malts and 4.6 for the crystal 120.

What did you assume for buffering capacities?

Still not enough acid to pull the pH of the mash too low. At least in my experience with trusting my numbers to be close.

That is about the right answer, depending on buffering capacities and that's why I'm asking about those.

But I wouldn't include the acid malt w/o a pH check first.