I want to upgrade my system

[SteveHeff]

I currently brew on a single propane burner, using my 10 gallon pot. I produce solid 5 gallon batches, but I would like to make more beer in one sitting. I'm look at upgrading my fermenting vessel to a Speidel ferm unit and a 15 gallon boil pot. Since I want to make 10 gallon batches, I am interested in going to a pump system instead of manual pouring.

Here are the questions:

1. Are there any systems (minus the cost of the pot) that will run me under $500?
2. Any recommendations on tiered units, either electric or propane?

I'm just starting to look around so I'm not even sure I am asking the correct questions. Any feedback/direction would be fantastic. thank you.

 

[augiedoggy]

I am not sure about purchasing one but you have a lot of options for $500 if you assemble yourself... I recommend electric. also these pumps work pretty well and will save you some money to spend elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-Pure-F...681970?hash=item440df11eb2:g:HUwAAOSwKWRZ4CF5 Ive been using three of them for years now.

 

[LarMoeCur]

You really have to sit down and write out what you exactly want in your brewery. Start with heating do you want HERMS, RIMs, or Direct Fire? Then size, we know 10 gallons. How much Automation? Pump or pumps? Fixed plumbing or quick connections? Amount of hose? brew stand? Metal or wood? What parts can I use from my old equipment. You get the idea.

I can tell you there are no off the self built systems that are in the $500 range. You will have to build it to be even close to $500. Electric brewing is expensive but the cost can be held down if you shop around.

 

[augiedoggy]

You really have to sit down and write out what you exactly want in your brewery. Start with heating do you want HERMS, RIMs, or Direct Fire? Then size, we know 10 gallons. How much Automation? Pump or pumps? Fixed plumbing or quick connections? Amount of hose? brew stand? Metal or wood? What parts can I use from my old equipment. You get the idea.

I can tell you there are no off the self built systems that are in the $500 range. You will have to build it to be even close to $500. Electric brewing is expensive but the cost can be held down if you shop around.

I'm not sure of that... I think some of the brau suppy systems are around $500 (at least without the kettle like the op stated) and other biab setups (or course those systems are like $250 to build too)... as well as mash and boils and robobrews and the like but they are not 10 gallon either..

 

[mongoose33]

I am not sure about purchasing one but you have a lot of options for $500 if you assemble yourself... I recommend electric. also these pumps work pretty well and will save you some money to spend elsewhere.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-Pure-F...681970?hash=item440df11eb2:g:HUwAAOSwKWRZ4CF5 Ive been using three of them for years now.

Augie, what kind of power supply are you using with those? I'm sort of at a juncture where I'd like to use something like this, not sure the exact configuration yet, but moving liquid w/ pumps instead of manually is something I'd like to move toward.

And--can't be determined from the link, what kind of screw-on connectors does it take?

 

[madscientist451]

You're not going to find a new 10 gallon rig for $500, but if you hunt around you can find one used, or pick up used items and go from there.
The cheapest way to go is keep your existing pot/burner to heat your water and add a 15 gallon/pot burner to use as your kettle. You didn't say what you are using as a mash tun, but a 15 gallon insulated keggle would work. Or get a big cooler from Walmart and use that as a mash tun. Making wort can be simple or as complicated as you want. You don't need an expensive system to make wort.
If you don't have temperature control for fermentation or a kegging setup, I'd get those things before increasing brew capacity.

 

[augiedoggy]

Augie, what kind of power supply are you using with those? I'm sort of at a juncture where I'd like to use something like this, not sure the exact configuration yet, but moving liquid w/ pumps instead of manually is something I'd like to move toward.

And--can't be determined from the link, what kind of screw-on connectors does it take?

something like this works well but I use a 7a supply in my control box with pwm speed controller to control the pump speed that way vs ballvalves... https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-110V-22...264592?hash=item51efc8ca50:g:f9gAAOSwEzxYN-40
if you want it to work like a stand alone pump you can just wire a power supply like this,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-5A-120...722815?hash=item3cf4b7c83f:g:52EAAOSwstxU-rkc
just remember you want 2 amps or larger. as far as connecting it you can use any connectors you want... red is + and black is negative... yuu can even just hard wire it up and skip the plug if you want.

I use 1/2" stainless camlock connectors screwed onto the pumps myself. the threads are 1/2" bsp but Nsp screws on fine as well. the material the pump is made of is a very hard and brittle food grade high temp pps plastic unlike a lot of the other abs plastic pumps designed for solar water heating that people use. go dont go nuts screwing it on when theres a lot of resistence...
These were made for things like coffee makers and drinking fountains. the 24v pumps are better than the 12v version.. 24V =3gpm 12v =2gpm...

 

[augiedoggy]

Yeah I was way off on the cheapest Brau system... its $1,200.. its was just over $500 to build when I priced out the components and thats why that number stuck in my head. Its not uncommon in this hobby to pay 2 to even 6 times the cost of the components for assembly and warranty's and such. As more and more companies get into the game the prices have been coming a bit down due to competition.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'm not sure of that... I think some of the brau suppy systems are around $500 (at least without the kettle like the op stated) and other biab setups (or course those systems are like $250 to build too)... as well as mash and boils and robobrews and the like but they are not 10 gallon either..

Yes, there are 120V single PID control units out there for $325 dollars (+shipping) Brau Supply being one of them. For 10 gallons I'd recommend the 240V controller which is $475 (+shipping). They are attached via tri-clover fittings. Just doing quick math in my head, controller, fittings, pump, hose, and shipping. Easily over $500 dollars.

When the OP says "system" to me that means multiple items not just a control unit. Definition of system: 1. a set of connected things or parts forming a complex whole, in particular.

I again say there are no off the self "systems" for $500. You will have to build it to be anywhere close to $500.

Beat me to the post! I agree with your latest post.

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I'd be really surprised if you couldn't put together a single-vessel e-BIAB rig using a RaspberryPi and CraftbeerPi software, or just a standard PID for the stated budget. (I think you would need a 20 gallon kettle for 10 gallon BIAB tho)

 

[augiedoggy]

I'd be really surprised if you couldn't put together a single-vessel e-BIAB rig using a RaspberryPi and CraftbeerPi software, or just a standard PID for the stated budget. (I think you would need a 20 gallon kettle for 10 gallon BIAB tho)

Why? With electric the boil over is totally avoidable so a 15 gallon kettle should work no?

 

[beernutz]

You could get an 80 quart SS pot for ~$200-$250, a 60L Speidel for $90, and a $50 Wilser bag and hoist and do 10 gallon BIAB batches. You already have a burner and would just need a way to hang the hoist. You could get all that for less than $400.

Consider though that with 10 gallons of wort in a 60L Speidel fermenter you are going to need help getting it into a chest freezer or even moving it around because it weighs around 90 lbs. I use a dolly to move mine and have set up a Harbor Freight hoist mounted above my chest freezer to get the Speidel into it.

 

[GammaRay4130]

Why? With electric the boil over is totally avoidable so a 15 gallon kettle should work no?

I think its more of a volume issue for mashing if doing a full volume mash it would limit the amount of grains you could fit. You could still do 10 gallon batches but your og would be limited unless you add some extract to get to the desired og for higher gravity beers.

 

[augiedoggy]

I think its more of a volume issue for mashing if doing a full volume mash it would limit the amount of grains you could fit. You could still do 10 gallon batches but your og would be limited unless you add some extract to get to the desired og for higher gravity beers.

hmm I make primarily 11 gallon batches with a 16gallon mash tun that has a false bottom with 3 gallons under it.. plenty of headroom even when making the high gravity stuff.. is the efficiency that much lower with BIAB?

 

[GammaRay4130]

hmm I make primarily 11 gallon batches with a 16gallon mash tun that has a false bottom with 3 gallons under it.. plenty of headroom even when making the high gravity stuff.. is the efficiency that much lower with BIAB?

I know you can get pretty good efficiency doing BIAB. Are you doing full volume mashes? I think that's where you can run into issues with space and why a 20 gal kettle was suggested. If you do some kind of sparge I would think you'd be fine with a 15 gallon kettle.

 

[augiedoggy]

I know you can get pretty good efficiency doing BIAB. Are you doing full volume mashes? I think that's where you can run into issues with space and why a 20 gal kettle was suggested. If you do some kind of sparge I would think you'd be fine with a 15 gallon kettle.

No that would be the difference, I thought many still rinsed the grains as they raised the bag to "sparge"...

 

[mj1angier]

I think its more of a volume issue for mashing if doing a full volume mash it would limit the amount of grains you could fit. You could still do 10 gallon batches but your og would be limited unless you add some extract to get to the desired og for higher gravity beers.

This.

I am putting together my 20 gal EBIAB and went with 20 just for this reason. The 10 gal set I have max out at 11 lbs of grain. My old propane pot was 20 gal and just made it with the 23 lbs of grain in the stout I did

 

[BeardedBrews]

No that would be the difference, I thought many still rinsed the grains as they raised the bag to "sparge"...

I had been avoiding a rinse-sparge for a long time, which did limit my capacity in a 15g keg. Lately I've been playing around with just topping off the kettle pre-boil which has worked out fine. I heat the full volume (14g or whatever) to strike temperature, and then run 3-4 gallons out into a bucket before I put in the grain. As I stir I'll add back as much water as fits in the kettle, and leave the rest in the bucket until the mash is over.

As far as DIY, the Auber kit has become a pretty attractive option at $330:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_59&products_id=678

It costs more than using light switches and dryer outlets, but it isn't much above the price of buying individual components.

If you don't like to do wiring, I think the Brau supply is one of the nicer single-vessel 240v controllers at $475:
https://brausupply.com/collections/electric-controllers/products/unibrau-controller-240v

In each you'd need to add an element and power cord:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_wl.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nemal630rcord.htm

Or:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/aboilcoil-15gal-240v.htm

 

[mj1angier]

Here is the Hosehead, you will need pot, element,basket...
https://brewtronix.com/epages/8a95c...d73-7860-44f3-bf15-555c5378c28a/Products/H5BC

 

[augiedoggy]

I had been avoiding a rinse-sparge for a long time, which did limit my capacity in a 15g keg. Lately I've been playing around with just topping off the kettle pre-boil which has worked out fine. I heat the full volume (14g or whatever) to strike temperature, and then run 3-4 gallons out into a bucket before I put in the grain. As I stir I'll add back as much water as fits in the kettle, and leave the rest in the bucket until the mash is over.

As far as DIY, the Auber kit has become a pretty attractive option at $330:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_59&products_id=678

It costs more than using light switches and dryer outlets, but it isn't much above the price of buying individual components.

If you don't like to do wiring, I think the Brau supply is one of the nicer single-vessel 240v controllers at $475:
https://brausupply.com/collections/electric-controllers/products/unibrau-controller-240v

In each you'd need to add an element and power cord:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/elementkit_tcrip_wl.htm
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/nemal630rcord.htm

Or:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/aboilcoil-15gal-240v.htm

Even though a panel is not a complete system, I built the 3 pid 3 pump+ timer 30a panel in my avatar for under $300.. No light switches of dryer chords. used it for a few years and now it sits in my attic... Again theres a large markup on this stuff from many resellers aubers markups are just about double and in some cases more than double than retail elsewhere for the same product with shipping.. not everything they sell is unreasonable but when you buy a large quantity of stuff from any single suppplier your going to pay a lot more for the stuff they hope you dont bother to shop around for.

I did price out every component in the brau control panel right down to the $6 aluminum enclosure and it came out to less than $200 ... The other $300 is for the hour or twos labor to assemble and warranty..

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

hmm I make primarily 11 gallon batches with a 16gallon mash tun that has a false bottom with 3 gallons under it.. plenty of headroom even when making the high gravity stuff.. is the efficiency that much lower with BIAB?

In order to make 10 gallons of something in the 7% ABV range (in a single vessel) , you need about 17 gallons of water , and then you'll mash in 25 lbs of grain. ...remember, the BIAB guys do full volume mashes, right? (no sparging) That's cutting it close EVEN with a 20 gallon vessel.

 

[SteveHeff]

Thanks for the responses. I've briefly read through most of them, and most of the links. I appreciate the sourcing all of you are helping me with.

I think, for simplicity reasons, I would likely stick with an electric system vs. propane. Yes I have a burner but I don't like having pick up propane in my 40 lb cylinder.

I'm not opposed to going second hand. Never had a problem with used equipment and I don't now. Although I would prefer a newer control board, I won't complain if I'm able to get any thing that works at this point.

I've already purchased a 60 liter Spiedel (https://www.morebeer.com/products/s...kkYVY8F7fAgY5_-B3-XhbJo5_zoiDbsYaApX4EALw_wcB) and it looks like the in-laws will "surprise" me with a new 15 gallon boil kettle for the holidays.

I would like to have a metal stand...I don't care about welded vs. nut and bolt. Likely I'll buy the metal and custom build it to the space I have. Yes, it will take me a while, especially with a 2.5 year old kid running around, but I anticipate the savings to be huge. I'd rather spend 20 hours of my time building a unit rather than shelling out $2,000-3,000 for a similar unit.

That's where I stand right now. Don't know how much more purchasing I'll be doing in the next 6 months, but if something pops up and is in good shape, maybe. Thanks for all of the banter...it's great to hear different sides to every argument and take away the best of each.