I feel like I am brewing the same beer.

[smadaus]

So this is gonna be a long one and I apologize for that but I appreciate you guys reading it and helping me out.

I have been brewing for a little over a year now and I am having some issues. I have been buying kits from various HB sites and found that even ones from different sites come out tasting the same. I use Northern Brewer, Homebrewsupply, Homebrewing.org, and morebeer. I have brewed a lot of IPA's and Pale Ales so I would expect them to have a similar taste and feel but it is uncanny how the beers that I brew have the same color, flavor and feel to them even though they are different brews. Doesn't matter if I am doing extract or all grain they come out the same basically. They are all more of a darker amber color with an amber ale flavor. I just kegged the kama citra ipa from northern brewer and it came out the same. I am just stunned at how I have managed to screw up so many batches.

I currently don't have a way to control fermentation temps, which I thought could cause some issues but it doesn't get to warm in my apartment and I feel like that wouldn't be the sole reason for the beer turning out the exact same. I also have a hard time with my mash temps occasionally. I am working with a cooler so it tends to drop a lot and even though I add boiling water to bring it back up it seems like I can never get it to be perfect. I have been working on building a brewing controller and getting a rims system in place to help with my mashing but that might not be up and running for a couple brews. I keep trying to buy new things to help improve my beer but I am getting to the point where I know people are brewing award winning beer with a much simpler setup.

Things I have tried:
Water treatment with salts (All grain)
Checking pH (All grain)
Whirlfloc (All grain)
Adding LME towards the end of the boil (Extract)
Yeast starter (Liquid yeast and both methods)

Like I said I feel like people have made some really really good beer without doing any of this but for some reason I can't do it with or without it. Sorry if I forgot anything and I know my brewing notes would probably be helpful but I didn't want to add all of that to this already long post, but I will answer any questions you guys have about my process. Let me know what you guys think, thanks again for reading.

 

[Northbank]

How much do the ingredients actually vary when it comes right down to it? ... Curious ...

 

[smadaus]

Looking at the recipes, it seems like a lot of them are mostly Rahr 2 row and the specialty malts are normally different. I am guessing that is why they are so similar but from what they advertise for the SRM is deceiving. It seems like the SRM (I am supposed to be getting) varies quite a bit on a beer that is so similar. Also one of the beers wasn't 2 row and it was very similar as well. The hops are normally different and it almost seems like the flavor, aroma and bitterness don't come through. That was something I did over look though, the amount of 2 row in each was significant.

 

[Chanoc]

Are you cooling your with fast enough...? If not you may be looosing flavor and aroma from hops and malt and yeast flavor dominating the brews...
My 2 cents...

 

[popgunandy]

I totally get where you are coming from and I have a suggestion - brew the same beer over and over for a bit. Something you like and won't mind drinking. Get away from a kit, though if you want to go that route think about a SMaSH kit from MoreBeer (Single malt, single hop).

As you move from batch to batch, keep notes on your actions and your outcomes. The idea here is that the only variable is you, not the ingredients. After a few batches, you'll learn how your gear works with you and you can then gain some confidence to branch out.

 

[liquidcourage]

What yeast are you using? If you're consistently fermenting at the wrong temp the yeast could give an off flavor. If you're using the same yeast it's possible that could lead to similar favors on each beer.

 

[Northbank]

What yeast are you using? If you're consistently fermenting at the wrong temp the yeast could give an off flavor. If you're using the same yeast it's possible that could lead to similar favors on each beer.

This was my thinking, especially if the extract and all grain beers taste the same ..

 

[smadaus]

I am using an immersion chiller and it takes about 20-30 minutes to get it down to temp. I usually try to chill it a little more and then pitch an even colder yeast slurry to try and help with the lack of temp control throughout fermentation.

As for brewing the same beer, I might look into that. I actually was trying to stick to kits until I felt like I was progressing but since I have been having this problem or possibly lack there of (due to the fact that they are mostly 2row) I was trying to just stick with kits. I have two more to brew and then I am probably going to look into brewing the same thing for a bit. Of course looking at the recipes now they are also mostly 2 row so I am anticipating the same thing.

The yeast I use is different from batch to batch but I use the S-05 a bunch. I try to switch between liquid and dry but sometimes I don't plan ahead with a starter so I just use the dry.

Thanks guys, I kinda feel dumb now for not comparing the grain bill.

 

[kh54s10]

Fermentation temperature control is quite important. You say that your apartment doesn't get too warm. 70 degrees is really too warm. Fermentation creates heat and your wort could be reaching 80 degrees. Most ale yeast do best where the wort never exceeds the mid sixties. 70 degrees max.

Try brewing a Porter or a Stout. That should be quite different than the beers you have been brewing.

Even though the beers you have made would be similar, they should not be the same, as you are experiencing.

I would start by controlling your fermentation temperature to make sure you are not getting an off flavor that comes through on all the beers.

Other than that I have nothing. I can brew two beers with the same grain bill, change just some of the hops in one and they will be different. Depending on which hops and how much, they can be very different while in the same style.

 

[Northbank]

Thanks guys, I kinda feel dumb now for not comparing the grain bill.

This forum doesn't exist because everybody knows everything, and thinks the same way

 

[liquidcourage]

Most beers that you're going to brew are going to consist of mainly 2 row. It's the extra specialty grains, hop schedule, yeast profile, etc that change the beers. When comparing recipies don't worry so much about it being mainly 2-row.

On the yeast, Safale 05 ferments really clean but doesn't add much character to the beer. Split a batch and pitch two different yeasts, you'll notice a difference.

 

[ong]

I would concur that trying some SMaSH recipes will really show some of the nuances of what you're brewing. I'd bet the recipes you're making all include crystal malt, which contributes to the amber ale profile.

If you do a Vienna malt SMaSH with Hallertauer, followed by a Maris Otter SMaSH with a massive Summit hop steep, you will definitely not have brewed the same beer twice!

Also agree that you need to work to keep fermentation temps low, even if it's just a tub filled with water and some chunks of ice (the first week is mostly all you really need to worry about with ales). Also might be worth experimenting with different yeasts. I didn't realize how much I disliked US-05 until I found some clean yeasts I really enjoyed.

 

[Jim311]

The best thing I ever did for my beer brewing was getting a fermentation fridge. The flavor can vary wildly with beers fermented at different temperatures. Also controlling your mash temperature is pretty important too. Here's a tip for you on getting a good consistent mash temp. Heat your mash water up to OVER the temperature you want to mash in. Your cooler and the grain will rob temperature from immediately, so start with something like 170 degree water and close the lid up. Wait a few minutes until the temperature has stabilized and then add your grain when you're within 10-12 degrees or so of your target mash temp and stir things up good and close the lid. Wait a few minutes, then take the temp of the mash and see where you're add. Either adjust by adding cold water or hot water if necessary and then close the lid and let it mash for 30 minutes and then check the temp again. It shouldn't drop very far in any decent cooler but if it does, top it off with hot water. This technique will help you keep good stable temperatures for the entire hour (or longer if you want) of the mash.

 

[SGTSparty]

The advice here so far is great, so start w/ that but if all else fails i have a question, and this may be a stupid question, not meant as an insult at all but how many kegs do you have on tap at a time? For me, a pale ale is a pale ale and an IPA is and IPA. Obviously that's not even remotely true but they aren't my favorite styles and if I'm not comparing 2 side by side or at least w/in the same day that's kind of how they register. So are you able to compare 2 or more of you batches side by side to try and discern differences? Maybe they're more different than you realize? Obviously if you're brewing those styles you probably have a more educated pallet for them than I do but worth checking maybe? Have you gotten the same feedback from other drinkers that the batches all taste the same?

 

[Jawbox0]

There's a few yeasts that would do better in that warm of an environment. You could try something like the Imperial Organic Citrus yeast. This yeast loves those slightly warmer temps, and works well for fruity or tropical Pale Ales or IPAs.

http://www.breworganic.com/imperial-citrus.html

 

[dwhite60]

Instead of a SMASH you might try brewing a few different gallon batches over a couple days. Brewed close together you eliminate time in the keg/bottle as a variable.

Gallon batch might seem like a lot of work for what you get but, this is an experiment to see what you are really getting.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Titleist3]

This is not necessarily the cause of your issue, but you mentioned this in an earlier post:

I usually try to chill it a little more and then pitch an even colder yeast slurry

If your yeast slurry is more than about 10F different than your wort temp, you could be shocking the yeast. I've read on yeast manufacturer instructions to keep your re-hydrated yeast temp within a certain range of your wort temp. Unhappy yeast can cause off flavors, and if you are using the same yeast in each brew and treating it this way each time, it could have some contribution.

How are your wort samples pre-fermentation and pre-packaging? Do they all look and taste the same?

 

[USMCMatt]

Personally I felt the same way, until I controlled my fermentation temps.

 

[ncbrewer]

I also vote for fermentation temperature being the most likely cause.

But another possibility comes to mind. My first all-grain batch was an APA. It tasted exactly like a Belgian Wit. After that, I brewed Porters, Hefeweizen, and Irish Red - they all tasted similar. The LHBS guy thought it was an infection. After replacing the fermenter and some other plastic gear, I got back to getting the beer I was going for. So I wouldn't rule out infection.

 

[MagicMatt]

And if you can't get your fermentation temp control under wraps quickly enough, for your next batch try a style that suits higher ferm temps (like a saison). You can use a dry yeast like Belle Saison and pitch at 70°F and let it free rise at ambient temps. I'm almost positive you'll find it tastes like a different beer!

 

[eadavis80]

Yeah, I too wondered about the temp of your slurry - if I'm pitching slurry, I take it out of the fridge at the beginning of my brew day and let it slowly rise to room temp so by the time I need it, it's good at 70 degrees - just like my wort. Wasn't sure if that could be a problem, but I think it's best to have the wort and yeast be pretty close in temp.

 

[filthyastronaut]

I'd go with the suggestion to use yeast and styles that thrive under no temp control. If you don't want to invest in temperature control, just make a ton of Belgians. Saisons, BPAs, and Trappist ales. Witbiers, White IPA, Belgian IPA. Belgian Stouts. You may even find that strains like 3944 and Ardennes will ferment fairly clean even when free rising, if it's a low gravity beer.

 

[smadaus]

The advice here so far is great, so start w/ that but if all else fails i have a question, and this may be a stupid question, not meant as an insult at all but how many kegs do you have on tap at a time? For me, a pale ale is a pale ale and an IPA is and IPA. Obviously that's not even remotely true but they aren't my favorite styles and if I'm not comparing 2 side by side or at least w/in the same day that's kind of how they register. So are you able to compare 2 or more of you batches side by side to try and discern differences? Maybe they're more different than you realize? Obviously if you're brewing those styles you probably have a more educated pallet for them than I do but worth checking maybe? Have you gotten the same feedback from other drinkers that the batches all taste the same?

I can have up to 3 kegs at the same time in my keezer and yes I was actually going to compare a pale ale and an ipa sometime in the near future. My dad often wants to help drink my homebrew and he has said that most of them seem to taste the same. I brew a lot of pale ales and ipas because that is mostly what I drink, so my logic was that if I could get one of those to taste really good I know I am on the right track.

I plan to try and find some temp control system for fermentation but it might be a little until I figure something out. Also I plan to look into more liquid yeast but like I said sometimes I just want to brew out of the blue and don't make a starter so I end up just using dry. I am going to look into adjusting some things and work on improving my mashing but other than that I really appreciate the feedback.

 

[smadaus]

How are your wort samples pre-fermentation and pre-packaging? Do they all look and taste the same?

I thought I read somewhere that you could pitch the way I do and that your yeast should be a little cooler than your wort but I could be mistaken. Also the pre-ferm taste is good but still seems too dark with malty flavor. Pre-keg or bottle taste is not to far off from that and my taste is probably distorted due to the presence of alcohol. The beers that I have made don't taste bad but I am tired of drinking the same thing lol. Especially when you buy these kits and you hope for a light color and you get an Amber color.

 

[smadaus]

The LHBS guy thought it was an infection. After replacing the fermenter and some other plastic gear, I got back to getting the beer I was going for. So I wouldn't rule out infection.

I have 4 big mouths and use probably 2 or 3 all the time. I would hope they all wouldn't be infected but I guess if something else post boil is infected then all of them would be. Is there a way to check for this and if so, can you clean them enough to fix the problem?

 

[smadaus]

I'd go with the suggestion to use yeast and styles that thrive under no temp control. If you don't want to invest in temperature control, just make a ton of Belgians. Saisons, BPAs, and Trappist ales. Witbiers, White IPA, Belgian IPA. Belgian Stouts. You may even find that strains like 3944 and Ardennes will ferment fairly clean even when free rising, if it's a low gravity beer.

I will probably start looking for some beers like this. I might just find a proven recipe and make that so that I can have an idea of what I am supposed to be getting. It would be nice to have some homebrewers near me so that I could make a recipe they already have made and compare them, to me that would be ideal.

 

[dwhite60]

Belle Saison rocks! It's awesome yeast. Be sure it doesn't chew through your fermenting vessel though. I've run this up to 82F with great results.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[ViciousFishes]

Having fermentation control available may seem like a daunting task, but really, it's pretty easy to set up and pretty affordable:

1. Get yourself a used chest freezer off of craigslist. Some are near-free

2. Get yourself a controller unit. Here's a great one that's less than $40: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011296704/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 . Personally, I have and really like the Black Box: http://www.blackboxbrew.com/

3. Get yourself a source of heat. This is what I have in my fermentation chamber and is less than $20: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XDTWN2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

For less than $100, you can have perfect control over your fermentation temps.

 

[SunnyDownSnuff]

Somebody may have already mentioned this (and if so I apologize) are you using caramel malts in all your recipes? A lot of kits and recipes gravitate toward caramel 40 and it seems to overwhelm a lot of other flavors. When I started I used it in everything, and everything tasted like a variation of the same thing.

 

[m00ps]

If even lighter stuff like IPAs are turning dark amber then to me that definitely says oxidation

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

How long are you boiling for?

If you're oversparging and then boiling extra to compensate that'll tend to darken the wort and bring out a more malty-light-caramel flavor.

 

[Rayi]

Also take a look at different recipes from the same place. One on line place offers a special Heff for $35 and a regular heff for 8 dollars less. No difference on ingredients. Best reason I have to BIAB and get what I need local

 

[ram5ey]

Yeah I am wondering about oxidation with the darkening color and caramel like flavor.

 

[prrriiide]

You say you've treated your water with salts...have you tried charcoal filtering? Or using all RO or distilled water? Chlorine and chloramines found in most tap water will do nasty things to beer. I found that when I started filtering my water, the beer quality improved greatly, and that the flavors really started to pop.

 

[urg8rb8]

Use RO from your supermarket's big water dispensing machine... It's cheap! 30 cents a gallon here.

 

[Iseneye]

mOOps bet me to it. If your light grain bills are turning out amber then oxidation was my first thought. Can you post a picture of a beer and list the grain percentages?

Is it darker than the Bee Cave Brewery pale ale on the first post of the thread below? That is about the colour I would expect for a standard APA with a bit of crystal.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31793

I wouldn't expect fermentation temperature or boil length (unless it is excessive) to turn a pale ale into an amber ale. High pH can also darken your beer but you said that you are controlling that.

 

[ncbrewer]

I have 4 big mouths and use probably 2 or 3 all the time. I would hope they all wouldn't be infected but I guess if something else post boil is infected then all of them would be. Is there a way to check for this and if so, can you clean them enough to fix the problem?

I don't know if there's any way to check for infection.

If your fermenters are glass, you can probably kill an infection with bleach. But if they're plastic, I don't know. It didn't work for me - had to replace it. From posts I've read, sometimes bleach works for plastic, and sometimes not. You have to go easy on the bleach concentration and contact time to prevent bleach penetrating the plastic and ruining future beers. I used 1 Tbsp per gallon for 15 minutes.

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but if some of the kits that you've been making have been extract with the ipa's and the like if you're adding all of the liquid malt extract at the beginning of the boil you will end up with more of an amber color. instead try only adding 1/3 at the beginning with the rest near the 15 min left mark. it'll help keep your light IPA's looking that way.

 

[smadaus]

How long are you boiling for?

If you're oversparging and then boiling extra to compensate that'll tend to darken the wort and bring out a more malty-light-caramel flavor.

That could be part of the problem, I am still getting my process down and I feel I am still making mistakes. My boils are mostly 60 minutes but sometimes it turns out to be an extra 10 or so minutes.

 

[smadaus]

You say you've treated your water with salts...have you tried charcoal filtering? Or using all RO or distilled water? Chlorine and chloramines found in most tap water will do nasty things to beer. I found that when I started filtering my water, the beer quality improved greatly, and that the flavors really started to pop.

I do use an under the sink filter when I brew. It is a filtrite advanced water filter. I'm pretty sure it filters chlorine out but I am not sure about the other. I guess I could try RO from the grocery store and compare. I will definitely look into that.