I drink a lot....is it cheaper to brew?

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pvpeacock said:
If you just add up the cost of water, grains, hops and yeast and divide that by the number of gallons brewed, the answer is yes.

If, however, you include time and equipment costs (including the fact that you will inevitably graduate from plastic buckets to temperature controlled, glycol chiller cooled, stainless steel conical fermenters with tri-clamp butterfly valves, etc., etc., etc. ) the answer is HELL NO!

But it is still worth it? Yes!!!!!
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Man, reading this just hurts sooooooo good, lol.
 
bracconiere said:
i've seen some projector golf simulators...projectors are pretty cheap now...
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If you are talking about my golf simulator, you are looking at 3 to 4k best case scenario with new being closer to 7k. But yeah projectors are so cheap, would have one in every room but wife disapproves.
 
applescrap said:
Hops in terms of barrels? Wow, are you brewing barrels of neipa! Btw closer to 5 lbs and beyond per barrel is much more accurate for this style, imo. If not 6 lbs per barrel. I think I would be fairly pissed buying an 18 dollar four pack that was hopped at 4 per barrel. That said when it scales up maybe you need less, I doubt it though. Just my 2c.
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I’m quite well versed and experienced brewing this style. Using 12 oz hits right at the 4.5 lb/bbl mark. Very rarely should you need 5lb/bbl. breweries marketing above that are using advance hopped products because using straight t90 would have diminished returns once you cross that barrier
 
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odie said:
8 bucks? Must be a lot of table sugar in that batch. I'm guessing you would need about 25ish pounds of grain for that...
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He sprouts his own chicken feed. Mad props for that! Enzymes to increase fermentable proteins and some sugar, dont let his joyful presence fool you, he is super clever at getting by less expensively.
 
Nate R said:
What do they say? The first round of golf costs the owner/builder $20 million? The second round costs under a $1.00??
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yep...my first omelet cost me over a thousand...the next one was free...
 
applescrap said:
He sprouts his own chicken feed. Mad props for that! Enzymes to increase fermentable proteins and some sugar, dont let his joyful presence fool you, he is super clever at getting by less expensively.
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chicken beer??? hmm...I have chickens and lots of feed...feed is cheap...

seriously though...been thinking about using deer corn to try making whiskey...
 
odie said:
chicken beer??? hmm...I have chickens and lots of feed...feed is cheap...

seriously though...been thinking about using deer corn to try making whiskey...
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Yes, he sprouts feed. Bet it would work.
 
Dgallo said:
I’m quite well versed and experienced brewing this style. Using 12 oz hits right at the 4.5 lb/bbl mark. Very rarely should you need 5lb/bbl. breweries marketing above that are using advance hopped products because using straight t90 would have diminished returns once you cross that barrier
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So well versed that you changed this post from 4 to 4.5, yeah I know you did that because I was already responding to you and decided to let it go, glad you fixed that. 😁

Do you brew in bbls? Pretty cool if you do. I havent brewed as much lately but the next thing I think will be keg hops.
 
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I like the OP, he seems like a good dude. But I can tell you he won't save money by brewing beer.
I mean, most of us don't, and we're okay with it.

If I was looking for most bang for my buck I'd just buy everclear. Most drunk/dollar.
 
An inexpensive way to start could be small batch on stove.
A cool way to save money is grow hops. I hope to do that some day.
 
applescrap said:
But yeah projectors are so cheap, would have one in every room but wife disapproves.
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hmmm, i've got my 180p one in the living room about 160" screen. and i got one for when i'm laying in bed, it's kinda a gimmick, but it's cool to lay in bed with a 100" screen tright next to it on the wall! lol, just need tog et my second kegerator set up so i can pour beers without having to get up! ($200 used for the living room, $80 for the bedroom)
applescrap said:
He sprouts his own chicken feed. Mad props for that! Enzymes to increase fermentable proteins and some sugar, dont let his joyful presence fool you, he is super clever at getting by less expensively.
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i've spent 17 years fighting for every nickel i've learned how to save!
odie said:
.I have chickens and lots of feed...feed is cheap...
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i spend 12.99 on a 50lb bag of whole barley, gets me ~40lb's of malt...i malt it 23 lb's at a time, it's really not hard to do, but you will want to moddifie your oven to go lower then 170f, because with mine that's actually 200f, and it makes a good dark beer, but kinda gets boring after a while....
 
applescrap said:
So well versed that you changed this post from 4 to 4.5, yeah I know you did that because I was already responding to you and decided to let it go, glad you fixed that. 😁
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Are you not supposed to fix typos? I’m confused

I brew 5 gallon finished batches. I used lb/bbl rates to because this post is discussing the cost effectiveness of hb Vs. buying comercial beer which advertises in lb/bbl. by doing this I figured it would make it easier to see how oz per oz of beer, hb is cheaper than buying
 
applescrap said:
To op,

It's like a ball of string, how long do you want it. There are 93 ways up this mountain and most of them work.

To the rest, wth is going on here, most of these you can brew cheap comments would have been lambasted when I first joined. You would have been insulted every which way but loose. You just want to get drunk, you have no taste buds, and you dont care what it tastes like.

I am pleased to see such a great shift in thinking like I always say the emptiness inside the vessel is what gives it value. Quick brewing, cheap brewing has always been my thing, and I have voraciously commented on both. But time gets older and so do we, and things we think we know can change.

Dont kid yourself, nice gear is nice, it makes great brew and provides pride in ownership. Also everyone has their own schtick and for some making that big Frankenstein lab brings them happiness, gets them out of bed every day to face their job, gives their life purpose and meaning. I cant spit on that because a 10 dollar pot boils water too. Just something to keep in mind in case anyone wants to be as stupid as I have been. Mastery is mastery and a real master needs different tools for different reasons and some of those tools cost.

I got into brewing to save money, but even modest equipment could calculate in, and will take time to recoup. My time is worth money and I invested some in that. I can brew quick, that matters to me.

Back to op, For you, your needs and most at this point is a no brainer. A grainfather
They are small, work well, and are all in one. Their are other brands well under 500 at this point. If I were starting again that is what I would get in 220v version. Best of luck
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Thoughtful reply. IF I start brewing my No. 1 goal would be to produce great beer. Not the cheap swill I drank when I was a young man. Getting a buzz was more important back then. My current favorite beer is almost $14.00 for four 16.9 oz, cans. I don't consider that cheap. The brewing equipment necessary to produce a quality beer, not that piney flavored horse piss that the local "craft" brewhouse is selling, is my question. My woodworking tools are not inexpensive. It makes a difference. I would assume beer making making would be the same, except I've seen those gleaming tanks of S.S. craftsmanship the local "breweries" use and I am questioning my assumptions.
 
Odin's_FJ40 said:
The brewing equipment necessary to produce a quality beer, not that piney flavored horse piss that the local "craft" brewhouse is selling, is my question.
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It's not bad equipment that causes the beer you don't like, it's the recipe, ingredients, and process. I don't much like today's trendy hop-forward beers either, though I find a few at least drinkable.

But with a couple of 10-gallon coolers (one for treating water, one for mashing), a $4 mash bag, 3 pots on the stove, a basic no-frills fermenter, and a few other odds and ends, I make wheat beers, stouts, bitters, Belgians, etc. which I like better than pretty much any IPA (whether hazy or not) and at least as well as other commercial beers. So I'll repeat what some others have already said here: you don't need expensive equipment to make good beer.
 
Dgallo said:
Sorry I mixed up on my wording $18-28 a 4 pack not a pint. I can make a 4 pack of a double ipa hopped to 4 lbs/bbl for $5
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I've seen some t-shirts mentioning this... I need to get one.

Props to CH and the homebrew4life crew.
 

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applescrap said:
Check out my two recipes, daddys juice and daddys orchard! They are worth a shot. Use 4g of your straight cider and back mix with the most expensive pomegranate juice you can find at ratio of 4g to 1g pomegranate or organic black cherry juice.
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where do we find your recipes? It used to be in the profile but that changed and I don't know how to find it any more. BTW, I've got a cyser going and half a gallon of pomegranate juice ready to go
 
kmarkstevens said:
where do we find your recipes? It used to be in the profile but that changed and I don't know how to find it any more. BTW, I've got a cyser going and half a gallon of pomegranate juice ready to go
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Search daddys juice and daddys orchard in search bar. Those are the only recipes I have shared. Well I have a recipe for chocolate and enchilada sauce too. I wont share a recipe unless I really trust it. The flavor of the black cherry is like original sin black widow cider, that was the inspiration.
 
to the OP: I jumped back into home brewing not to save money, but to ensure availability. With the pandemic and shutdowns I became deeply concerned I wouldn't have access to beer. Now I'm growing barley and hops to make sure I'll have ingredients. People think I'm crazy but that never stopped me.

Last winter I brewed about 32 gallons. I'm still working through drinking it along with stuff I still buy. But I have a cellar that stays consistently 53 degrees where I store the beer in bottles. So far nothing has gone bad and many of them just get better over time.
 
moreb33rplz said:
I legit save money brewing. I'd say the three key points are: I will constantly buy commercial beer anyway (I don't drink more cuz I brew, and I verrrry rarely buy beer now), I buy everything in bulk/re-use yeast, and I more or less use the same equipment for years and years.
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This is very true. Hops by the pound (often on sale), reuse yeast, and my equipment is pretty straightforward. Look to CharlieP for an example of how to use a brew pot for decades...
 
I don’t do it to save money. I make 5 gallon batches pretty much for myself. I like the process and can’t wait to pop open a bottle of a recently completed brew. I can save money over purchasing some styles at my local liquor store but it’s not the primary motive to brew for me. I only have 1-2, sometimes 3 bottles in an evening — sometimes none. There’s sure to be a percentage (really have no idea of a number) who like to think the hobby is a cover for their alcoholism. I doubt they’re fooling anybody. I suppose if you drink THAT much, you could save money though if you buy in bulk and your process is well dialed in. I know there are people who brew because they also love to share it with friends and fellow home brewers. Sounds great but I don’t know anyone besides me who does this hobby.
 
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Dancy said:
I don’t do it to save money. I make 5 gallon batches pretty much for myself. I like the process and can’t wait to pop open a bottle of a recently completed brew. I can save money over purchasing some styles at my local liquor store but it’s not the primary motive to brew for me. I only have 1-2, sometimes 3 bottles in an evening — sometimes none. There’s sure to be a percentage (really have no idea of a number) who like to think the hobby is a cover for their alcoholism. I doubt they’re fooling anybody. I suppose if you drink THAT much, you could save money though if you buy in bulk and your process is well dialed in. I know there are people who brew because they also love to share it with friends and fellow home brewers. Sounds great but I don’t know anyone besides me who does this hobby.
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It sounded like you said anyone who saves money is an alcoholic? I disagree. I won't bust out all the math right now, but if a six pack of beer costs like $11, I make my own six pack for like $2, I have a few hundred dollars in equipment, and a year or two....I'm ahead.
 
I ran the numbers on a couple of my recipes. I'm less than a dollar a pint for cost to brew. That's for everything from my low ABV best bitter through my 8%+ mocha porter.

Depending on the kegorator the OP is getting, you could fit a range of keg sizes in there. Typically at least a few 5 gallon (maybe even 6 gallon Torpedo) kegs.

Ingredient costs, and quality, when going all grain is far better than extract batches. It also means that you cannot blame anyone except yourself if it doesn't come out as expected. Depending on how deep you dive into things, you can expect to spend a fair (or a lot more) amount of money on gear to brew. I've run the gambit form pots, to pots converted to kettles (aluminum pot initially) doing BIAB to three vessel keggles to finally a Spike+ setup with TC fittings to brew in. I've also gone from plastic carboys, a bucket (for one batch IIRC) with filling bottles to then filling kegs. I've also fermented in converted sanke kegs (kegmenters these days) to now using a pair of Spike CF10 conical fermenters (one currently occupied, another getting filled Saturday).

As you progress through gear, you can [often] find someone else who will buy your older gear from you (you'll take a loss on it, but at least it's going to a decent home). I'll be posting up my last keggle soon (need to make a new extraction dip tube for it) as well as several of my kegmenters.

One thing that I wish I had done from earlier on was go from propane burners to electric elements. I made the switch a couple of months back now and it is easier on me. No more fiddling with the burner control and such. Also, since I didn't plumb my brew stand for running two burners from a single tank, I had to swap between them. With the new panel I got (from ebrewsupply.com) I can run both the HLT and BK elements at the same time.

Probably the biggest thing you need to figure out, when starting off, is how much $$ you're willing to spend on the brewing gear (initially). There are metric asstons of posts about hardware to use/modify/make here. Plus at least a few major methods for brewing. BIAB, BIAC, three vessel, with variations among those as well.
 
Odin's_FJ40 said:
I like beer. Mainly amber lagers and wheat beers....yeah I'm a "Boomer" with a palate ruined by 30 years of Miller Lite. I am intrigued by the brewing hobby but am not convinced that I can drink 5 gallons of 3-4 different beers before it goes bad. A friend is gifting me a kegerator. Not sure how many taps. I thought I would start by seeing how long it takes me to drink a couple kegs. Current favorites. Yeunglng Trditional Lager, Michelob Amberbock, Tucher Helles Lager, and Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier. I don't care for sucking on grapefruit or pine needles.....So the whole IPA craze is beyond me. Change my mind. I am willing to drink one of almost anything.
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It depends on a couple factors. What you drink, how well you brew, how much you put into equipment, yeast choice and how often you reuse it.

Sure you can get cheap but that requires buying in bulk and lots of expensive equipment. Most of us newbies like me start out with kits. I’ve moved to my own partial mash recipes.

Even kits very in price and can be between $20-$50.

For me it comes down to quality of what you’re drinking and brewing. I’ll give you some real examples. Most Hefeweizen near me cost about $12+ for a six pack. You get approx 8 six packs or less out of a batch. 8*12=96. Even doing extract it cost me $36 for yeast, malt, and hops for my last hefe. To me it taste like anything I shelled money out for at the packy.

However if you’re a bud light guy you can get two cases for $23 each coming to about $38 for that same amount.

Moral of the story is the snootier the beer and the better you brew the better return on investment. Brew an imperial stout like a champ and you’ll be saving more money than you think is legal. Brew watered down lager and you’re probably losing money to brew.
 
renstyle said:
I'll fight you for the last Pliny the Elder tho! :D:cool:
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I've tried pliny the elder, and younger and for president, they are okay. I've also had heady topper and everything stone has ever brewed (or close to it) and they are good, but not worth standing in line for hours (friend stood in line for younger for like 2 hours). Not me. I like simple beers and simple recipes, 3 grains and maybe two hops.

Nate R said:
When you do start brewing, making a NEIPA will become the holy grail so to speak. Very few homebrewers can do this properly. Instead, focus on easy simple basic beers and hone your craft.
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Maybe so, but a simple light lager is even harder, as there is nowhere to hide. Any flaw will be in your face with no hops to hide behind.

applescrap said:
Back to op, For you, your needs and most at this point is a no brainer. A grainfather
They are small, work well, and are all in one. Their are other brands well under 500 at this point. If I were starting again that is what I would get in 220v version. Best of luck
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I first bought a used kit off of CL, got all I needed to make great beer and more for like $700, then "upgraded" to big shiny 3 vessel system. Recently sold that for a $1000 loss and picked up a Anvil Foundry All in one system for less than $500 and love it. I still have the original Cooler system with propane and keggle for when I want to make bigger beers. Anyway, all of that is to say, if I was starting over I would have gone with the BIAB/AIO systems from the start. Good luck OP.

bracconiere said:
hmmm, i've got my 180p one in the living room about 160" screen. and i got one for when i'm laying in bed, it's kinda a gimmick, but it's cool to lay in bed with a 100" screen tright next to it on the wall! lol, just need tog et my second kegerator set up so i can pour beers without having to get up! ($200 used for the living room, $80 for the bedroom)
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Bracc, you mean it's not projecting on the ceiling? You need to step it up. LOL :mug: all

Edit: OP definitely check out the kviek yeast. It has been said you can make very lager like beers at 85* plus and you can dry them for reuse. I'm really liking the clean character of Loki with a heat belt set to 85*.
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
What if, you get a truck license, then a brewery gig driving out the beer to stores, restaurants etc. And organize a couple of friends to then "rob" you and your truck every once in a while. Free beer 4 lyfe + wages so you basically get pair to drink their beer.
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free housing too! ;)
 
cmac62 said:
Maybe so, but a simple light lager is even harder, as there is nowhere to hide. Any flaw will be in your face with no hops to hide behind.
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Yes you are correct. I am praying to the Beer Gods daily that Lagers will become the new NEIPA/ HAZY in popularity. Of course that means there will still be many poor commercial offerings... but it is fun to try!!!
I think for the average new homebrewer trying to learn to brew a NEIPA is often sought after and rarely acheived. It really does need cold side gear (kegs, c02 transfer, maybe spunding valve, temp control, etc.)
 
Erik the Anglophile said:
What if, you get a truck license, then a brewery gig driving out the beer to stores, restaurants etc. And organize a couple of friends to then "rob" you and your truck every once in a while. Free beer 4 lyfe + wages so you basically get pair to drink their beer.
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Right outta the new Kings of Newark, right here Erik is!! Lol. Great idea
.
Maybe rent a warehouse first, stock it up, then get robbed??
 
applescrap said:
Hops in terms of barrels? Wow, are you brewing barrels of neipa! Btw closer to 5 lbs and beyond per barrel is much more accurate for this style, imo. If not 6 lbs per barrel. I think I would be fairly pissed buying an 18 dollar four pack that was hopped at 4lb per barrel. That said when it scales up maybe you need less, I doubt it though. Just my 2c.
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My latest batch of my English IPA ( SMaSH recipe) used 8oz of hops in the boil and I'll be putting another 2-3oz in via dry hopping soon. That's for a recipe that gives me about 6-7 gallons at the end (in keg and can). Which comes out to about 3# per barrel hopping rate. Damned great beer and NOT a bitterness bomb.

With what I've spent this year on hardware/gear it's NOT a cheap year. But, it's making my brew days easier on me, and I'm still getting great beer at the end (maybe even better than before).

I am harvesting my yeast from the batches, so that's saving me about $7 per batch in yeast, plus starter costs. I'm also going to be buying my base malt in bulk (55# sacks) which will reduce my batch cost by a decent amount. Going from about $2/# to about $1.25/# helps. Buying hops in bulk also helps. I bought some in 1# bags with another in a 5# bag. Getting them in the one ounce bags really drives your batch costs up (if you use a decent amount of hops).

IMO/IME, it's not so much a matter of "can I brew cheaper beer than I can buy". It's more along the lines of "I can brew BETTER beer than I can buy" Most of my batch costs are under $50 for getting 6-10 gallons out (using the bulk grain cost). That includes even my higher ABV level beers (up to 9% at this time).
 
Odin's_FJ40 said:
I am just beginning to notice reference to NEIPA (New England ?) and WCIPA (West Coast). What is the difference? Are the other IPAs? And yes I am not a fan of beers with high IBUs, I had to look IBU up).
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IBU = International Bittering Units. Hops are measured by alpha acids that contribute to the balance of beers. The bitterness from the hops curb the otherwise over whelming sweetness of the malt. And that's where it all gets crazy. The amount of hops you use directly attributes to the overall aroma and flavor of your beer. You simply decide which style or specific beer you like then find or create a recipe to make that beer.

Relax and have a homebrew. Just like making bread, there are hundreds of variations to choose from.
 
..."homebrewing to get cheaper beer" is like "marrying to get cheaper sex"...
Excluding added value, yes. But then adding collateral costs and total volume.
It's not a really costly hobby, but if I didn't homebrew, I'd consume far less beer and spend far less on it.
YMMV
 

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