I can't make a beer above 5%!!

[abrewer12345]

hi all-
been brewing for about a year now with two of my buddies. we use beersmith for all of our recipe writing and we THINK we have our "brewhouse" profile right. we have been missing our OG by a couple points here and there (ie. lactose neipa target OG 1.069 vs actual of 1.061) but i feel ok about that. but we CANNOT get our beers up over around 5%. for this last beer i made a starter with 1 packet of bootleg biology NEEPAH and 1L of propper on a stirplate, decanted, and then did another 1L of propper (i know, next time i'll just do 2L). but according to mr. malty, we needed around 300 billion, or a little more, to get there- and with this starter, i estimated about 400 billion cells. we have a plastic carboy with a strip thermometer on the side which has been reading about 68 degrees for 5 days and i just wrapped a blanket and jacket around it to bring the temp up to about 70-71. we're currently at 1.032. is there anything i'm missing here? is this a normal amount of points down after 5 days? i'd really love to make a beer at about 6%! thanks in advance for any and all help.

 

[Qhrumphf]

How are you reading your final gravities? You're not using a refractometer, are you?

 

[GoeHaarden]

The recipe and brew process will help answer this question as yeast attenuation is dependent on a lot of factors. Since fermentation is exothermic the internal temperature of the wort can be close to 10 degrees F higher than what that sticker thermometer is telling you.

And yes, you need to increase the starter size when you step up to allow for growth.

Also, what are you measuring your FG with? If it's a hydrometer then your readings would be fine, but if you're using a refractometer then you have to adjust for alcohol content. You will usually get a 1.030 reading with a refractometer when fermentation is complete.

 

[jjw5015]

How much lactose are you using? Are you confident in your mash temp? (don't think you listed it)

 

[abrewer12345]

How are you reading your final gravities? You're not using a refractometer, are you?

we are!

The recipe and brew process will help answer this question as yeast attenuation is dependent on a lot of factors. Since fermentation is exothermic the internal temperature of the wort can be close to 10 degrees F higher than what that sticker thermometer is telling you.

And yes, you need to increase the starter size when you step up to allow for growth.

Also, what are you measuring your FG with? If it's a hydrometer then your readings would be fine, but if you're using a refractometer then you have to adjust for alcohol content. You will usually get a 1.030 reading with a refractometer when fermentation is complete.

can you explain this a bit more for me- refractometer is saying 1.032 as of last night. should i use our hydrometer?

How much lactose are you using? Are you confident in your mash temp? (don't think you listed it)

mashed at 156, mashed out at 168, and .66lb of lactose at flameout

 

[Qhrumphf]

A refractometer won't read correctly in the presence of alcohol. You either need to use a calculator to adjust it (Terrill or Novotny are the standards, each more accurate in differing ranges), or just use a hydrometer.

 

[abrewer12345]

A refractometer won't read correctly in the presence of alcohol. You either need to use a calculator to adjust it (Terrill or Novotny are the standards, each more accurate in differing ranges), or just use a hydrometer.

understood- i'm finding all of this online, but how do i get a wort correction factor number correct?

 

[deadwolfbones]

understood- i'm finding all of this online, but how do i get a wort correction factor number correct?

Unless you need it to be 100% accurate, just leave it at 1.00 and it'll be close enough.

 

[abrewer12345]

Unless you need it to be 100% accurate, just leave it at 1.00 and it'll be close enough.

thank you so much for this- i found a chart of gravity to brix conversions, plugging in the brix numbers here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/ and put 1.02 for the wort correction just to give it a little flare. its saying my beer is currently at 5.96%. did i do this right? because then all of my beers have been way better in the ABV market haha

 

[abrewer12345]

The recipe and brew process will help answer this question as yeast attenuation is dependent on a lot of factors. Since fermentation is exothermic the internal temperature of the wort can be close to 10 degrees F higher than what that sticker thermometer is telling you.

And yes, you need to increase the starter size when you step up to allow for growth.

Also, what are you measuring your FG with? If it's a hydrometer then your readings would be fine, but if you're using a refractometer then you have to adjust for alcohol content. You will usually get a 1.030 reading with a refractometer when fermentation is complete.

here's the recipe:
5.5gal

Per Beersmith:
OG: 1.069 (ACTUAL 1.061 based on refractometer)
FG: 1.023 (currently at 1.032 based on refractometer)
Srm: 5.5
ABV : about 6.2%

Grains:
8.5# 2-Row (56%)
2.5# Flaked Oats (17%)
2.5# Malted Oats (17%)
.5# Carafoam (3%)
.5# Honey Malt (3%)
.75# Lactose at 55min

Mash pH 5.26
Mash 156 F for 47 minutes (per beersmith recommendation, should we still do 60 mins?)
Mashout 168 F for 10 minutes
Fly Sparge at 168 F for 15-20 mins

Boil/Hops:
1oz Galaxy @ 0min
1oz Sabro @ 0min
2oz Galaxy Whirlpool 20min at 170
2oz Sabro Whirlpool 20min at 170

Dry Hop:
2oz Galaxy 3 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 3 days into ferm
2oz Galaxy 7 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 7 days into ferm


Yeast/Fermentation:
1 L starter of Bootleg Biology NEEPAH
- going to let the beer rest overnight to ensure temp is ideal, pitch at what i'm hoping to be around 68 degrees, will bring it up to 70-71 on day 4-5, then get it down to 64degrees before kegging. force transferring from carboy to keg on probably day 9-10.

Chemistry:

150 S04
175 Cl
149 Ca (this number is because of my original water chemistry. any way to drive this number down?)

water additions
9g gypsum (4.5 to mash water, 4.5 to sparge. should this all be at once before boil?)
9g CaCl (same as above)

 

[Qhrumphf]

understood- i'm finding all of this online, but how do i get a wort correction factor number correct?

Check your refract against your hydrometer (or ideally a precision hydrometer, that's my preferred tool anyway). You may not need one (mine does not) in which case 1.000 would be correct. Plot a number of points at varying gravities, and get an average of the correction you need.

 

[OnePlate]

^ That's what I did to get my correction factor (1.04) for my cheapo generic ebay refractometer. Coincidentally, it's the same as Sean Terrill's calculator default.

 

[WBB]

If you’re in the range of 5-7% who cares what the exact ABV is, does it taste good? Would you brew it again?

 

[mashpaddled]

If you’re in the range of 5-7% who cares what the exact ABV is, does it taste good? Would you brew it again?

His concern was that his measurement of FG was 1.032 which would indicate a problem unless his goal was to create a terribly sweet beer which seems not to be the case.

 

[kh54s10]

His concern was that his measurement of FG was 1.032 which would indicate a problem unless his goal was to create a terribly sweet beer which seems not to be the case.

Read the thread all the way through. That is his refractometer reading before correcting for alcohol. And the fermentation is probably not yet finished.

OP you have a hydrometer, put the refractometer away after you pitch the yeast and use the hydrometer. Also at 5 days, fermentation might still be several days from hitting your FG. I never take a gravity reading before day 14. Most of the time it is done by then, sometimes it takes a little longer.

 

[sicktght311]

OP you have a hydrometer, put the refractometer away after you pitch the yeast and use the hydrometer.

Plus one on this response. I have both a refractometer, and a hydrometer. The only time i really ever use the refractometer now is just to take small samples during the brew process to determine where i'm at with my boil gravities, and my sparge gravities. Once it goes int he fermenter, its all hydrometer. I take a gravity sample from the fermenter sample valve to measure OG, and then use the hydrometer to measure once or twice during the fermentation, and then again at kegging. Also keep in mind temperature needs to be corrected when pulling samples too. If your refractometer/hydrometer is calibrated at 60 degrees, and your wort is at 75, you need to use temperature correction to get an accurate number.

 

[kh54s10]

Plus one on this response. I have both a refractometer, and a hydrometer. The only time i really ever use the refractometer now is just to take small samples during the brew process to determine where i'm at with my boil gravities, and my sparge gravities. Once it goes int he fermenter, its all hydrometer. I take a gravity sample from the fermenter sample valve to measure OG, and then use the hydrometer to measure once or twice during the fermentation, and then again at kegging. Also keep in mind temperature needs to be corrected when pulling samples too. If your refractometer/hydrometer is calibrated at 60 degrees, and your wort is at 75, you need to use temperature correction to get an accurate number.

If you are kegging I would even skip all but the final sample. If that was close to the predicted FG and tasted good I would just keg it.

Also without a sampling valve I would advise anyone who has to open a fermenter to take as few readings as possible. I often take only one. I ferment for 2 weeks then take a sample, if it is close to the predicted FG and tastes OK, I skip any more sampling. It is a bit risky when bottling but I have only had 2 batches out of 108 that were slightly over carbonated.

 

[lump42]

understood- i'm finding all of this online, but how do i get a wort correction factor number correct?

The wort correction factor can be calculated by following the directions in this article: https://www.brewersfriend.com/how-to-determine-your-refractometers-wort-correction-factor/

 

[kh54s10]

The wort correction factor can be calculated by following the directions in this article: https://www.brewersfriend.com/how-to-determine-your-refractometers-wort-correction-factor/

So much easier to: 1) ignore the numbers and just look for the same reading twice. Or 2) use a hydrometer......

 

[bracconiere]

So much easier to: 1) ignore the numbers and just look for the same reading twice. .

But what about the peace of mind he's after? damn it, that extra 1% is a must! everyone knows i go for a full extra 3%, and add gluco!

edit: and personally, at 1.032 (or whatever). I'd be more worried about getting the runs from it....

 

[lump42]

So much easier to: 1) ignore the numbers and just look for the same reading twice. Or 2) use a hydrometer......

I've always had inconsistent reading with my refractometer. It's traveled around a few different locations, I'm sure it need to be recalibrated and then refigured.

At this point, I just got a second sample jar. Samples sit in a deep freeze to cool off. I don't tend to make any on-the-fly gravity adjustments that can't wait a few minutes for the sample to cool down and then measure with a precision hydrometer. I have more faith in that after in ways.

 

[InLimbo]

here's the recipe:

Mash 156 F for 47 minutes (per beersmith recommendation, should we still do 60 mins?)

At that temperature everything will have been converted probably in about 30 minutes, I don't think that's the problem. However, 156 is borderline "high" especially for something you want to attenuate out a little further. Mashing at 152 is typically the "sweet spot" for a single infusion mash. Lowering your mash temperature will yield more fermentable sugars. The rest of your process and recipe look great.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, the OP's "problem" was due to freaking out from using uncorrected post-fermentation refractometer readings...

Cheers!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Yeast has a limit to how much alcohol it can tolerate. I believe beer yeast in general craps out at anything above 5% or so. English cider yeast routinely gets me to 10% and I believe champagne yeast can go even higher. If you're interested in making rocket fuel, pay attention to the strain's alcohol tolerance rating.

 

[k-os]

Yeast has a limit to how much alcohol it can tolerate. I believe beer yeast in general craps out at anything above 5% or so. English cider yeast routinely gets me to 10% and I believe champagne yeast can go even higher. If you're interested in making rocket fuel, pay attention to the strain's alcohol tolerance rating.

Many standard brewer's yeast can handle at least 10%. US-05 is around 12%.

 

[bracconiere]

my beer is currently at 5.96%

we still need to help this poor soul get that extra 0.04%! do you bottle or keg? i would think if you bottle, or naturally carb in a keg, the priming sugar would push you over the 6% barrier....

 

[kh54s10]

Yeast has a limit to how much alcohol it can tolerate. I believe beer yeast in general craps out at anything above 5% or so. English cider yeast routinely gets me to 10% and I believe champagne yeast can go even higher. If you're interested in making rocket fuel, pay attention to the strain's alcohol tolerance rating.

I believe this is wrong. I rarely brew a beer lower than 5%. Usually they are in the mid 5% to mid 6% range. I have never used a yeast that could not handle that level of alcohol. I have also done a couple of beers that topped out at a bit over 10% with just ale yeasts.

 

[bracconiere]

I believe this is wrong. I rarely brew a beer lower than 5%. Usually they are in the mid 5% to mid 6% range. I have never used a yeast that could not handle that level of alcohol. I have also done a couple of beers that topped out at a bit over 10% with just ale yeasts.

i agree, i've brewed twice that strong with nottingham...i think most handle up to 12%, even bakers....

 

[william_shakes_beer]

The post above was based on my personal experience when I was still a new brewer calculating everything because, ya know, it's a data thing. The formula I use to calculate ABV is OG-FG*1.33.That was based on my examination of the table in the back of the Palmer book. I selected a dozen OG and FG values spread widely throughout the table and calculated ABV for each. They all fell very close to 1.33 as an approximating factor. I was routinely calculating at about 5% for beer, 10% per cider.

The aspersions cast on my professionalism as an amateur brewer were truly hurtful to my fragile pride and ego. Incensed, I immediately went herding to the white labs website to PROVE YOU WRONG ... only to discover I was wrong. This link:

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-ban...9kUI8&form_id=whitelabs_yeast_yeast_bank_form

Provides a search function that reveals dozens of yeast strains that can ferment well above 5%. If you look at the highest alcohol tolerance bracket, most are wine or champagne yeasts, not beer or ale. I now slink away a broken, shattered, humbled man.

Anyone want to buy some brewing hardware cheap? it was used by an idiot.

 

[day_trippr]

lol! Nah, lord only knows what you've been actually doing with it