Hydrogen peroxide?

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Hello everybody! First post here.

I've been lurking in here for the last week or so. Finally joined yesterday. For those who haven't read my intro post, I'm as rookie as they come, when it comes to brewing.

So, I've been reading here, and also read an e-book online, at:

http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

and it seems apparent to me that, unlike winemaking, in brewing, wort oxygenation is very important, to the point that some brewers buy an oxygen setup just for that purpose.
And then it hit me: did anybody try using hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate their wort?
In theory (at least, from a layman's point of view), hydrogen peroxide decomposes into pure water and oxygen, so it should work, if added in the right proportions...

Anyway, sorry if it's a stupid question...

 

[Melnyk]

im no expert but i think it might sanitize the wort and kill the yeast, dumping it from a descent height will do just fine.

 

[Ma2]

The initial flaw I see with that game plan would be if not all of it were to decompose your beer would be ruined, as well as usually all reactions are reversible in the fact At any given point there should be both products and reactants present so even once this decomposition has reached equilibrium it would still have H2O2. And who honestly would want to drink that? Next thing I see would be that the H2O2 could greatly offset the PH of your wort potentially killing off the yeast or maybe turning them into some type of Godzilla yeast.

 

[Ma2]

That's just IMHO as a third year chemistry major

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Hmmm...thanks for the replies.

Ma2: I'm no chemist, so take this for what it's worth, but, for what I read, the decomposition reaction of H2O2 ( 2 H2O2=> 2 H2O + O2) is thermodynamically favorable, which would mean the opposite reaction needs energy added to happen...?

Now, if I were to try that, to get my wort up to, let's say, 8 ppm oxygen (to have some margin for error), how much H2O2 should I add?

I'm not worried about the tasting. If I have tasted table salt made from HCL and NaOH, I can taste this. Worst case scenario, H2O2 is an emetic...

 

[Yooper]

Hmmm...thanks for the replies.

Ma2: I'm no chemist, so take this for what it's worth, but, for what I read, the decomposition reaction of H2O2 ( 2 H2O2=> 2 H2O + O2) is thermodynamically favorable, which would mean the opposite reaction needs energy added to happen...?

Now, if I were to try that, to get my wort up to, let's say, 8 ppm oxygen (to have some margin for error), how much H2O2 should I add?

I'm not worried about the tasting. If I have tasted table salt made from HCL and NaOH, I can taste this. Worst case scenario, H2O2 is an emetic...

I just have to ask, "why?" I'm all for experimenting, but if pouring the wort from the kettle to the fermenter aerates just as well, or one drop of olive oil does the job, why add an emetic or something that has a taste? I just don't understand.

 

[Ma2]

While it has to be thermodynamically coaxed into happening there is heat within the fermentation and with out having done any math or deep digging into this I would still consider the possibility of H2O2 remaining at not worth the chance, and 8 ppm is really small that would roughly translate to .0000008 gallons or .03 ml

 

[Ma2]

That number was per gallon... Sorry at work and couldn't finish that post

 

[Inodoro_Pereyra]

Yooper: for what I read, I was under the impression it took a long time to properly aerate the wort (I read 2 hours with a fish tank pump???), unless you use an oxygen tank.
I didn't know about the olive oil, but for what I just read, you'd need a tiny amount (20 microliters, very difficult to measure), and getting it right is very critical (too bad, I have a lot of olive oil ).

Ma2: I said 8ppm because I read the optimal oxygen concentration is 10ppm, and 8 seems to be the maximum achievable concentration using an air pump. That is 8ppm of oxygen, not of H2O2. What I'd like to know (if you don't mind) is how much H2O2 (the antiseptic one, not the more concentrated one used to bleach hair) would I need to get 8ppm oxygen per liter of wort.

TIA

 

[Ma2]

Well first question would have to be what concentration are you using

 

[superjunior]

Yooper: for what I read, I was under the impression it took a long time to properly aerate the wort (I read 2 hours with a fish tank pump???), unless you use an oxygen tank.

as Yooper mentioned, dumping the wort from the kettle to the fermenter provides plenty of oxygen for the yeast. it really is that simple

 

[Xaphoeous]

Let's also not forget that h2o2 is basically what is made when you dump Oxy-Clean into water. Oxygen based cleaners are basically just a mixture of h2o2 and water to make a diluted h2o2.

I sanitize with liquid h2o2 (3% USP) at a mixture of 1:30 (h202:water) to get aconcentration of 0.1% h2o2. Since oxygen based cleansers are doing the same thing (making a 0.1% h202 solution in water) then I would probably steer clear of putting h202 into your wort.