How to step up yeast starter?

[chato]

I received delivery of my ingredients from an online store and found the 2 yeast packs they shipped are over 2 months old. According to MrMalty and Brewersfriend, that equates to about 47% viability and for the 5.5 gal/1.087 batch I'm planning, I'll need to pitch both packs into ~ 3L starter or do a step up (519 billion cells required). I have a 2000 ml flask and a growler and one stir bar. Here's what I'm thinking:

1. Put both yeast packs into 1.6L wort in the flask and ferment on the stir plate for 24 hours with foil on top
2. After 24 hours, make up another 1.6L of wort
3. Pour 1/2 of the fermenting starter into the growler and add 1/2 of the new wort to it, cover with foil and shake intermittently for 24 hours
4. Add the rest of the new wort to the flask and put it back on the stir plate.
5. Brew and pitch both starters without decanting

Is this a sound plan? Any suggestions?

 

[cjgenever]

Easy there! If you are going to do that you need to be sure to watch your pitch rate into the starter (ok to overpitch) as well as the temperature. You will need to treat it as any other ferment to get a good final beer. The wort used should be like the wort for the final beer (gravity aside). Don't forget to adjust your hops for ibu and flavor dilution from the unhopped starter. You may also need to adjust your gravity if it is different than that of the starter and your shooting for certain numbers.

I have done this and pitched at high Krausen with great results.

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[poptarts]

why not just make a 2l starter, decant and add another 2l of fresh wort? then decant again and pitch the slurry so you dont end up with close to a gallon of crappy starter beer in your final product?

 

[flars]

You would be better off bringing the first starter to fruition, cold crashing, decanting, and then making the step up starter. Without following a standard procedure the yeast count may be just a wild guess.

 

[chato]

I have a couple of reasons to not cold crash/decant. For one, I'm planning on brewing Thursday night (about 48 hours from now). The other reason is that I had a bad experience the first and only time I tried cold crashing in the fridge. In that episode, everything was going well until the cold crash. Up until about 12 hours in the fridge the precipitating yeast looked great, pale off-white. But then a dark layer appeared followed by more good looking yeast. When I took it out to use, I smelled it and it smelled like apple cider vinegar. After consulting anyone I could find for advice, I ended up pouring it down the drain.

I am a little concerned with pitching so much "crappy starter beer", but the size of this beer should be able to handle it. Or maybe I could add a pound of DME to make up for that?

 

[cjgenever]

First off, I would advocate crashing your starter the numbers can be tricky if you try to pitch your starter while active. It took me a few batches to get it down. You need to learn your systems and get a feel for it. Until then, your only pitching a VERY rough guesstimate.

Secondly, if you had vinegar smells your starter was infected. You need better sanitation procedures or dry yeast.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[cjgenever]

The starter beer does not need to be crappy. It is only that way because people make it so. The starter will do fine if it is fermented at a lower temp for longer. And it will taste good, just lacking hops.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[IvanTheTerribrew]

why not just make a 2l starter, decant and add another 2l of fresh wort? then decant again and pitch the slurry so you dont end up with close to a gallon of crappy starter beer in your final product?

What website/program is that?


- ISM NRP

 

[mirogster]

This : www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[chato]

why not just make a 2l starter?

This is what I ended up doing. I didn't think you could make a full 2L starter in a 2L flask due to the very small headroom, but I'm giving it a try. After fudging around the numbers a little (switched Target Pitch Rate to Pro Brewer 1.0 and upped the gravity to 1.040), it looks like I can get to where I need to be without a step up.

 

[chato]

if you had vinegar smells your starter was infected. You need better sanitation procedures or dry yeast.

This was my conclusion also. This was done before I had a stir plate and I was doing intermittent shaking - maybe a little too vigorously! However the infection seemed to take place after being put into the fridge. I kept the foil on the flask in the fridge. Could that have been the problem? Would it be advisable to put an airlock onto the flask when it goes into the fridge?

 

[IslandLizard]

I wonder how you do a 2l starter in a 2l flask. Are you using Fermcap? Even with 1200ml I get blowouts.

 

[poptarts]

with fermcap and a stirplate you can

 

[flars]

I wonder how you do a 2l starter in a 2l flask. Are you using Fermcap? Even with 1200ml I get blowouts.

The results with Fermcap can be slightly variable. You can make a starter with any container your stir bar works in. I use a 1.1 gallon plastic Rubbermaid container. I also use a 2 gallon pickle jar. This one needed a stir bar in the shape of '+' because of the rounded bottom.
Cook and cool your wort in a kettle then transfer to the container of choice.

 

[judsonp]

Fermcap and a stirplate. If the stirplate gets a good vortex going, in my experience, you can barely develop any krausen.

 

[chato]

No fermcap here, just a not-very-strong stir plate - no vortex with 2L in there. Keeping my fingers crossed! My past two starters never developed much of a krausen, usually just a quarter inch or so at most.