How to improve my dry yeast health

[TheMerkle]

So, over the course of many batches I have changed several variables and seen pros and cons with almost every changed variable.

What I have noticed is always consistent is that anytime I've used dry yeast in low gravity ales, they always have 'that homebrew flavor'. Bigger ales and beers that I've fermented with liquid yeast finish with nice clean flavors.

At my last homebrew club meeting I heard a lot of suggestions about rehydrating and o2 injection to solve this... but I've always heard that both of these were unecessary.

Any advice?

 

[stpug]

Try those suggestions and draw your own conclusions. If you find a difference then stick with it; if not, then don't.

As for "homebrew flavor" using dry yeast in low gravity ales, I would say it's more a process or fermentation control issue. Low gravity beers (usually) have less components (flavor, aroma, etc) to hide other unwanted character.

 

[Brulosopher]

Curious what dry yeasts you're using? I find Nottingham to produce an odd character I don't much like, but other dry yeasts work fine.

 

[TheMerkle]

Nottingham was used in the beer that shows the most off flavor. Not diacetyl, or acetaldehyde, or phenolic. Just a kind of musty tanginess.

Other strains, like US 05, have given the same taste I can't put my finger on.

 

[RM-MN]

Nottingham was used in the beer that shows the most off flavor. Not diacetyl, or acetaldehyde, or phenolic. Just a kind of musty tanginess.

Other strains, like US 05, have given the same taste I can't put my finger on.

Nottingham likes it cool for the ferment. Low 60's is good but it will ferment down to the mid 50's and that should give it a cleaner flavor. Fermenting Nottingham into the upper 60's would give some bad off flavors.

 

[eadavis80]

I'm done with Notty personally. The batches I've done with it (in the low 60's) have turned out fair at best. Other dry yeasts I'm fine with, but from now on, if a recipe calls for Notty I'll use the suggested liquid yeast instead.

 

[TheMerkle]

What is the suggested liquid replacement for Notty? Probably a little late now, as we have a brew day planned with Notty in the morning... but what you suggest as an alternative to Notty in a Reaper's Mild inspired recipe?

 

[FirstAidBrewing]

What is the suggested liquid replacement for Notty? Probably a little late now, as we have a brew day planned with Notty in the morning... but what you suggest as an alternative to Notty in a Reaper's Mild inspired recipe?

WLP039 is you liquid equivalent of Nottingham. Good luck!

 

[JoeHoffman]

I always rehydrate my dry yeast. The bets way I've found is to sterilize a low wide Tupperware container, the glass kind with rubber lid is best, that will provide lots of surface area. I poor in a fresh bottle of mountain spring water, not distilled or RO, and sprinkle the yeast over the water right after I start the chiller for cool down. By the time the wart is at pitching temp the yeast is fully rehydrated. Stir it up and pitch it. I get great results this way with no off flavors


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

 

[TheMerkle]

Sounds good. I'll give that a try next time. Sunday, we brewed a British mild. I boiled half a cup of tap water and left it sit on the stove and cool while we mashed and sparged. When we started cooling the wort I sprinkled in my pack of notty and let it hydrate in the warm (maybe warmer than the recommended 105) for 15 minutes or 30. O2 injected the wort and pitched the yeast slurry. Should be seeing some action any hour now.

 

[Ungoliant]

At my last homebrew club meeting I heard a lot of suggestions about rehydrating and o2 injection to solve this... but I've always heard that both of these were unecessary.

I don't know why anyone would say rehydrating is unnecessary. Technically, yes, you can sprinkle on to cooled wort, but you're gonna get less lag time and healthier yeast overall if you rehydrate. Saying it's unnecessary is like saying it's unnecessary to check your tire pressure before a drag race. Sure, you can do it, but you're gonna get way better traction if you are able to ensure it's at the right PSI before taking off.

I sanitize a Pyrex measuring cup and microwave some reverse osmosis purified water (off a kitchen faucet), and microwave it to hit 90*, sprinkle, wait 15, stir, wait 15, pitch.

 

[BigFloyd]

Nottingham likes it cool for the ferment. Low 60's is good but it will ferment down to the mid 50's and that should give it a cleaner flavor. Fermenting Nottingham into the upper 60's would give some bad off flavors.

This ^^^^. Most brewers' bad experiences with Notty are due to fermenting too warmly for the strain. It doesn't help that many kits include this yeast with instructions saying it's fine to ferment up to 72*F. :smack:

I still use it for some beers and all of my ciders. I'll usually chill the wort to around 55*F, pitch and set the fermentation chamber (with probe on the bucket and insulated) to 58*F. Once it begins to slow, I take it into the lower 60's and later finish up around 65*F.

 

[TheMerkle]

Seems like the longer my investigation into people's feelings on Notty, the colder the suggested average fermentation temps go. I've got the mild equipped with the A419 probe taped to the carboy between a hunk of foam and the glass.

Ran into a few unforseen issues with this beer. The hop bag broke and my system is ill equipped for removing pellet hop material, so that's in the fermenter. The other issue is that I may have rehydrated a handy bit over 100 degress... hopefully my beasties are alive still.

 

[JoeHoffman]

I know that lots of people say to rehydrate at around 100 deg. But I just can't see how using water that is the same pitching temp as the wart could be a bad thing. The real critical thing is not to kill any of the yeast. Number one cause of death to dry yeast is pitching on a gooey sugary hot wort rather than pure clean water water. The cell walls of the dehydrated yeast are very brittle porous structures and when they come in contact with all the gunk in your wort before they have rehydrated they clog up and die from too much weird stuff getting in to their system. They never were intended to go through the process of rehydration in nature. Also stirring them before they are rehydrated can cause the cell structure to collapse under the pressure of the liquid like your ears popping when you dive infer water.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia

 

[BigFloyd]

I know that lots of people say to rehydrate at around 100 deg. But I just can't see how using water that is the same pitching temp as the wart could be a bad thing.

Dr. Clayton Cone at Lallemand has been an advocate of using 95-105*F tap water based on their studies. Other folks that have done the research and spent the time doing cell counts on dry yeast rehydrated in tap water of various temperatures and comparing those numbers to dry yeast sprinkled directly into wort have observed that ale yeast did better in water around 30*C (86*F) than in cooler water while lager cells showed better results in water that was 77*F. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2011.tb00482.x/pdf

However, another study found little difference between using water at 78*F vs 63*F (a decent ale pitch temp) - http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/01/dry-yeast-viability/. I'm tempted to try using cooler water next time than the normal 100*F I've been using just to see the results. It would make attemperation (cooling the slurry to within 10*F of wort temp) an easier task.

The important thing was that in all studies, the yeast viability was quite a bit higher when it was rehydrated in tap water (not distilled) vs. sprinkling directly into wort.

 

[JoeHoffman]

I'm not surprised by those results, the two main things to consider is what kind of stuff is being absorbed into the cell membrane and at what temp. Clearly the natural state of water is best, that is to say, with a normal amount of common minerals, and without any strange chemicals like chlorine or strange mater like sugar. Only then will the yeast be ready to enter an environment full of food to eat. As for temperature, I'm sure it may be true that the slightly higher water temps produce slightly higher viability but the problems with temperature shock would probably cancel out any of the small gains made by using the higher temp. I guess you could wait till the yeast slurry has cooled to the pitching temp but then you are adding more time and risk of infection. I use dry yeast as often as I can for years with great results by keeping everything exactly the same temp.


Pleas excuse my dyslexia