How to get a really balanced IPA?

[MikeFallopian]

I find that many British takes on American IPA have too much harsh bitterness, and not the balance that the good US examples offer, and as such I often feel that the style is quite boring. I was in the Euston Tap in London yesterday, which always has good IPAs on - I particularly enjoyed Arbor Yakima (a good English example) and Lagunitas IPA, on cask and keg, respectively.

Attempts at IPA by myself have also been too heavy on the bitterness and lack balance. Can anyone suggest a suitable hop schedule to achieve this?

My current IPA (23l batch, 5.3%abv) has the following hop schedule; it's nice but has too much of that harsh bitterness:
15.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
20.0 g Brewers Gold Leaf (5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
20.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
15.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Leaf (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)

I'm planning an IPA using Apollo and Bravo hops next, so any schedule suggestions for these hops would be welcome!

Many thanks!

 

[julioardz]

I'm not sure I'll be much help because I have not brewed with the hops you mention, and I think in ounces not grams

My approach to making a hop schedule for an IPA is to start by plugging in the late additions of the flavor/aroma hops in brewing software. I do big additions at 10 minutes and 5 minutes left in the boil. More recently, I have started steeping hops after the boil, once the wort has reached about 170F/76C. I steep them for 20 minutes and continue cooling. Then of course there is a big dry hop addition. I like dry hopping IPA's with 1 ounce per gallon of beer. I'll use 10 or more ounces of hops in these late additions and dry hopping alone, that's over 280 grams, no? Of course the amount of hops I use depends on the the alpha and beta acids of the hops.

Once I have that part of the hop schedule figured out, I will bring up the IBU in the brewing software with some clean, high alpha hops such as warrior. This is added at the beginning of the boil so I use only enough bittering hops to get the IBU up to the range I'm aiming for.

I use Beersmith to calculate all this in my recipes. Looking at your hop schedule I would reduce some of the bittering hops and add them late in the boil or steep them. Also, consider dry hopping with plenty of hops. My first IPA's were too harsh because I added too much hops in the beginning of the boil and not enough in the end. They also lacked the great aroma that good commercial examples have because I was only dry hopping with 1-2 ounces for 5 gallons.

 

[wilserbrewer]

1. Hop bursting / heavy late additions , minimal boiling hops
2. Yeast! You are using American yeast.
Not English?

 

[Effingbeer]

Choose a neutral flavor bittering hop like warrior or magnum. Many of the really good aroma/flavor hops taste like crap in a bittering addition. Go for 30ish IBU contribution from the 60minute and make up the rest with big charges of late hops.

 

[MikeFallopian]

1. Hop bursting / heavy late additions , minimal boiling hops
2. Yeast! You are using American yeast.
Not English?

Yep, I'm using US-05.

 

[924RACR]

I was leaning towards what Effing said - seems like you're using some nice, tasty, smooth hops to get your bittering, which requires too much and makes it unpleasant... instead use something like the Warrior (exactly what we use in our IPA) to give the initial bitter punch, then let the flavour hops rock it out later on, do what they're good at.

Not sure how the Nelson is at the end, never brewed with it, but is it that much good for aroma?

 

[MikeFallopian]

Choose a neutral flavor bittering hop like warrior or magnum. Many of the really good aroma/flavor hops taste like crap in a bittering addition. Go for 30ish IBU contribution from the 60minute and make up the rest with big charges of late hops.

With that in mind, what are your thoughts on the Apollo/Bravo combination? Apparently Bravo is a good bittering hop, and has high alpha acids. My initial design for the beer was as follows:

Apollo-Bravo
American IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.650
Total Hops (g): 70.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.062 (°P): 15.2
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.25 %
Colour (SRM): 10.1 (EBC): 19.9
Bitterness (IBU): 58.0 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
5.500 kg Maris Otter Malt (97.35%)
0.150 kg Crystal V Dark (2.65%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Bravo Leaf (15.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
10.0 g Bravo Leaf (15.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Apollo Leaf (17% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Apollo Pellet (17% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g Apollo Pellet (17% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 64°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

 

[MikeFallopian]

I was leaning towards what Effing said - seems like you're using some nice, tasty, smooth hops to get your bittering, which requires too much and makes it unpleasant... instead use something like the Warrior (exactly what we use in our IPA) to give the initial bitter punch, then let the flavour hops rock it out later on, do what they're good at.

Not sure how the Nelson is at the end, never brewed with it, but is it that much good for aroma?

I made a single hop beer with Nelson not so long ago, which was great (see my recipes). It didn't really come through in my current IPA as the Amarillo and First Gold blew it out of the water!

 

[wilserbrewer]

II do big additions at 10 minutes and 5 minutes left in the boil. More recently, I have started steeping hops after the boil, once the wort has reached about 170F/76C. I steep them for 20 minutes and continue cooling. Then of course there is a big dry hop addition. .

Worth repeating above...

Late additions, steeping / whirpool additions after flameout, and dry hopping. With high alpha hops, I recently did a batch with all hops after flameout, yet to taste!

 

[Andrikos]

This is what I would do for a ~1.055 IPA with an BU/GU ratio of about 1:

60 mins ~25-30 IBUs of high alpha hops
10 mins* ~15 IBUs of Aroma hops
0 mins* ~ 15 IBUs of Aroma Hops
Dryhop with a total of ~2g/l of your favorite aroma Hops for a few days.

* keep in mind that above~80°C (175F) alpha acid isomerization still occurs. For instance, at ~90°C (195F) the isomerization rate is ~2/3rds as that at boiling (100°C at sea level).

Also, the "classic" Malt profile for an American IPA is 90+% of pale malt and the remainder a light caramel malt (C10 - C40) with maybe a dash of wheat/carapils for head retention.

 

[BigRedHopHead]

Worth repeating above...

Late additions, steeping / whirpool additions after flameout, and dry hopping. With high alpha hops, I recently did a batch with all hops after flameout, yet to taste!

+1 to this! Cannot be understated how important these late additions have become. Looking at your proposed schedule I don't see enough late addition hops. You have great advice in previous posts, plug late additions into your software first, with your 60 min addition last to get the IBU's where you want them.

 

[MikeFallopian]

+1 to this! Cannot be understated how important these late additions have become. Looking at your proposed schedule I don't see enough late addition hops. You have great advice in previous posts, plug late additions into your software first, with your 60 min addition last to get the IBU's where you want them.

Cool, I'll take this approach - it seems to be the consensus!

What does everyone think about using Apollo as the sole aroma hop? I haven't used it before, but apparently it produces grapefruit and floral flavours. Should I add another hop for aroma to create more of a complex flavour?

Also, with regards to dry hopping: I usually just primary for three weeks then bottle/keg straight from there. I'll be kegging this one, as IPAs are definitely better on draught, in my opinion. Should I dry hop in the primary or in the keg? If the latter, how should I dry hop the corny to stop it getting clogged up and to make it easy to clean? Could I use a muslin bag tied to the dip tube? Any possibility of contamination with this method?

Thanks all again - great advice!

 

[adamc]

Primary for 2 weeks, rack onto dry hops let sit for however many days.

You can crash cool during the last couple days of this secondary.

Rack into keg.

 

[RonPopeil]

what's your grain bill? what's your OG?

I do IPA's around 1.070 OG and 50 IBU. I, too, calculate my flavor hop first and then add a small bitter charge or FWH. the bitter charge/FWH is about 10-14 IBU's of my total.

i crash cool with a wort chiller and get to pitching temps in about 20mins. additions at 25, 20, and 15 minutes work well for me with varying changes in bitterness/flavor/aroma. in your case i'd recommend my current philosophy and do flavor charges for 20 and 15 mintues and then figure out your bitterness. dry hopping or flame out additions will help tie things together. take the Nelson Sauv out and use it in something better. i usually aroma hop with left over flavor hops. when it comes to aroma i like truth in advertising. i wouldn't want to smell something that doesn't impart flavor to the beer. but i believe that smell and taste are closely linked so using the same hops for both would intensify the flavor.

15.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
20.0 g Brewers Gold Leaf (5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
20.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
15.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
10.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g First Gold Leaf (7.9% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
20.0 g Nelson Sauvin Leaf (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)

converting grams to ounces using 28g = ounce you have about 2.5 ounces of bittering where i would do .25 to .5. so 8-10g total at 60 minutes to bitter. move the difference to your late addition. you're esitmating a 5.3abv so i'm guessing you're at about 1.054 OG. look for around 30-35 IBU.

imo the trick to american IPA's are the american hops. i'm not sure of the logistics situation as a brewer in the UK but i would certainly try to continue using Simcoe, Cascade, Amarillo, Nugget, Chinook, Centennial, Columbus, Citra, etc if i were to move. Brewers Gold wouldn't be a first choice for me and I can't comment on it's efficacy. Lately i've been doing Citra and amarillo and/or Simcoe with vienna and pilsener comprising most of the grain bill. good summer drinking right there.

if you're in the 1.070 area i'd recommend at least two packs of S-05. i did a 1.070 beer with a single pack of S-05 and it finished around 1.020. american, especially west coast, IPA's are known for being very dry. i'd shoot for a finish around 1.012 - .014.

sorry for the long, and possibly redundant, post. i brew a lot of IPA's.

 

[BigRedHopHead]

I dry hop in the keg all the time. Use muslin bag and teflon tape. Tie a knot of teflon around the muslin bag knot, drop it in the keg. Be sure to leave a couple inches of teflon tape outside the lid diameter, then put the lid on and seal it up. The teflon tape fully compresses for a good seal (no leaks). Once I have bag tied up I spray the tape down with star san. Never any issues with contamination. Boil the bag for 5 min and your good to go.

 

[dannyjed]

save your Amarillo hops for flavour and aroma additions

 

[Effingbeer]

save your amarilo hops for flavour and aroma additions

+1 yep!

 

[MikeFallopian]

I dry hop in the keg all the time. Use muslin bag and teflon tape. Tie a knot of teflon around the muslin bag knot, drop it in the keg. Be sure to leave a couple inches of teflon tape outside the lid diameter, then put the lid on and seal it up. The teflon tape fully compresses for a good seal (no leaks). Once I have bag tied up I spray the tape down with star san. Never any issues with contamination. Boil the bag for 5 min and your good to go.

Boil the muslin bag before putting the hops in?

 

[MikeFallopian]

save your Amarillo hops for flavour and aroma additions

I was planning on using Bravo and Apollo hops for my next batch, using Bravo for bittering and Apollo for flavour/aroma. Should I stick with that duo, or add another aroma hop for some more complexity?

 

[dannyjed]

I write this because Amarillo is my favorite flavour/aroma hop in my IPA's. I just used Apollo hops for the first time recently in a Rye IPA, so I don't how it has turned out yet. I would add the Amarillo with the other two if you have it (they are hard to come by now).

 

[BigRedHopHead]

Boil the muslin bag before putting the hops in?

How else do you plan on sanitizing the bag?

 

[MikeFallopian]

Thanks everyone! Based on your advice, I've altered my recipe - how does it look?

Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.650
Total Hops (g): 115.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.062 (°P): 15.2
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 6.25 %
Colour (SRM): 10.1 (EBC): 19.9
Bitterness (IBU): 63.8 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 80
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
5.500 kg Maris Otter Malt (97.35%)
0.150 kg Crystal V Dark (2.65%)

Hop Bill
----------------
20.0 g Bravo Leaf (15.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
10.0 g Apollo Leaf (17% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
15.0 g Apollo Leaf (17% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
20.0 g Apollo Leaf (17% Alpha) @ 7 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
20.0 g Apollo Leaf (17% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
15.0 g Centennial Leaf (9.7% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Centennial Leaf (9.7% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 64°C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05

 

[MikeFallopian]

How else do you plan on sanitizing the bag?

Which do you think would bring better results: dry hopping in the primary after a week, or dry hopping in the keg? I want to avoid using a secondary.

 

[m3n00b]

Which do you think would bring better results: dry hopping in the primary after a week, or dry hopping in the keg? I want to avoid using a secondary.

I always dry hop in primary for the last week of fermentation. If I had kegs I would definitely do it in there....using a sack of course.

 

[buzzerj]

For an English IPA that really comes out well I've cloned a Goose Island IPA. For a 5 gallon batch:

43% 4.00 lbs Floor Malted Maris Otter 60 min 3°L 38.0 22.80
11% 1.00 lbs Dry Malt Extract 60 min 40.0 8.00
5% 8.00 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L 60 min 40°L 34.0 2.55
4% 6.00 oz Rahr White Wheat Malt 60 min 2°L 37.0 2.08
3% 4.00 oz Carapils (Dextrine) 60 min 2°L 33.0 1.24
34% 3.15 lbs Maris Otter Liquid Malt Extract 0 min 8°L 35.0 22.05


1.75 oz Centennial Pellets Boil 8.7% 60 min 15.23 55
1.00 oz Fuggles (U.S.) Pellets Boil 5.7% 15 min 5.70 10
0.25 oz Centennial Pellets Boil 8.7% 15 min 2.18 4
1.00 oz Cascade Leaf Boil 8.9% 2 min 7.57 3

0.17 oz Irish Moss 30 Min. Boil
0.17 oz Gypsum Boil

So I do this partial mash recipe with a 4 gallon boil. I mash the grains at 151 degrees F for 90 minutes in 6 quarts of water. Then I mash out by adding one more gallon of 203 degree F water for ten minutes. I boil this for 60 minutes, add the LME right after the boil is done and ferment for one week at 68 degrees F, transfer to a secondary for one week at 68 degrees F. The yeast I use is 1968 London ESB yeast, my standby IPA yeast. My wife says it's remarkably like the real Goose Island IPA only better.

 

[strambo]

You upped the ABV in your latest recipe which would have been my suggestion. I like my PAs in the 6% range, my IPAs around 7-7.5% and my DIPAs at 9-10%. The extra malt to hit the higher gravity provides the malt character to balance out all the hops. I also use most of my hops late in the boil and only get 20 IBU or so from the 60 min addition.

 

[Clef051]

You could try first wort hopping too, that is suppose to give a smoother bitterness. I haven't tried it but I'm going to on one of my next batch's.