1OldJarhead
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When bottling, is there a rule of thumb for the space to leave up top? I've now got an assortment and need to do it right for 12 oz, 20 oz, and 32 oz bottles. Thanks!
How much space to leave in bottle
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As little as possible without risking bottle bombs due to expanding liquid through changing temperature. Practically this means about 5mm. The oxygen in the headspace slowly dissolves into the beer, long time after the yeast is done with the priming sugar. This means that this oxygen will oxidize your beer, so keep the headspace small.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
How ever much is left after removing a bottling wand after filling to the brim is perfect. If filling from a keg, it's a little more forgiving. I aim for the same level, and just set the cap on the bottle for a couple minutes to let the CO2 push the O2 out before driving the cap home.
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It depends. Several things I consider.
- How much of a partial bottle do I think I'll have left? I might adjust headspace more or less to try and make that last bottle fuller.
- Many times I will only leave about a millimeter or two. Maybe 3 or 4mm. When you don't leave a lot of headspace, there'll be less O2 to ruin the beer. At least that's the current assumption for me. And it gets a extra ounce or more beer in those 12 fl oz bottles! The bad part... they don't give that lovely phfft sound when you open them. So you'll have a fright if you are expecting that. There won't be any hiss whatsoever. But they will be carbonated if you did everything else correct.
- Am I giving these away to friends? Then I want them to hear that nice phfft sound that we think tells us a bottle is not flat. So I'll fill that bottle to what level is left when I fill them to the top and then remove the bottling wand that was all the way to the bottom of the bottle. That seems to be about 1 to 1¼ inches for my bottles and wand.
No, it's way too much and damaging the beer. I've made blind a/b tests.
The amount of headspace you'll have left after removing a bottling wand is very close to what you will find in bottled commercial beers, which I guess is why lots of people consider it the correct amount. It's also easy, since you don't have to tilt the bottle and press the wand against the side to fill it higher. But unless you have a way of purging that headspace the oxygen will damage your beer over time. [Hint - most likely you really don't have an effective way of purging that much headspace; there are things you can try but most are less than completely effective and something of a PITA.] Yeast will scavenge some oxygen during bottle conditioning but not all of the oxygen in 2 1/2 inches of air. Oxygen absorbing caps supposedly also help, but again, they can't deal with 2 1/2 inches of air. Also, your bottle conditioned homebrews are going to have yeast on the bottom of the bottle so overfilling the bottles a little can help you get a full 12 ounce pour without yeast in the glass. I try to leave about an inch or maybe a little less. There is already some CO2 in your beer after fermentation, so you should be able to get it to foam up by tapping or swirling the bottles and purge the headspace that way. But again, I've never been able to get 2 1/2 inches of foam out of mine.
To limit O2 exposure, top up to within 1/2" of the rim, maybe even a bit higher. As long as you have a little compressible space to account for expansion, you'll be fine. Do not fill all the way to the top, as you could get bottle bombs. You won't get that satisfying "pop" when you open a bottle, so don't be surprised if you hear just a light hiss.
If you have a bottling wand, you can do this. Fill as you normally would, pull back the wand when the level gets close to full. Then tip the bottle maybe 30 degrees and angle the bottling wand so that the tip is pressing just inside the lip. Bump the tip until it fills to near full, then cap. This method also brings out a little of the CO2 that was in solution so you'll be capping on foam if you do it right. You'll have very little air in the headspace.
If you have a bottling wand, you can do this. Fill as you normally would, pull back the wand when the level gets close to full. Then tip the bottle maybe 30 degrees and angle the bottling wand so that the tip is pressing just inside the lip. Bump the tip until it fills to near full, then cap. This method also brings out a little of the CO2 that was in solution so you'll be capping on foam if you do it right. You'll have very little air in the headspace.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
Not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that's what I do and never had a beer suffer from it.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
For bottle conditioning, I do a normal fill and dose each bottle with sugar, bottle conditioning yeast, and ascorbic acid. Bottles are held at about 75F for a about a week (carbonation is generally complete after 3 or 4 days) then at room temperature for about a week. Bottles are stored in the fridge after that (which appears to double shelf life).
Will this process package a beer that is good for six months?
I only need the last bottle to be good 3 months after packaging.
Will this process package a beer that is good for six months?
I only need the last bottle to be good 3 months after packaging.
Let's say, you didn't realise that the beer suffered from it. Try filling up a few bottles more next time and leave only the bare minimum headspace. Make an a/b test with a usual headspace bottle after two months in the bottle. It's going to be very obvious.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
It would be more interesting if you could provide a complete description of your bottling process so that others could attempt to re-produce it.
Comparing a/b results between poorly described processes by two different people feels like a waste of time (and keystrokes) to me.
It has been sufficiently described earlier in the thread. Bottling wand + tilting the bottle. The exact how is not so important in this case. When bottle conditioning, the yeast will take care of oxygen in solution anyway, it just cannot reach the headspace oxygen before the sugar is eaten.
jerrylotto
Well-Known Member
I generally don't bottle more than a couple of six packs from my keg for each batch I brew. I start by boiling a sugar solution to sanitize it at a concentration such that 5 ml contains 1 tsp of sugar. After sanitizing my bottles in the oven, I add 5 ml of the sugar solution to each. I fill each bottle to within one thumb width of the top (you said that you wanted a rule of thumb) and cap with a sterilized cap.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
No additional yeast? no ascorbic acid? no other additions at this step?
What temperature during bottle conditioning?
...
No nothing. Just room temperature. It's really not that complicated!
There is a thread with some interesting results on the topic at: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...dspace-o2-in-a-bottle-conditioned-ipa.653784/
I won't go into details here, but I have done a few trails. For an NEIPA, the results of leaving a "standard" amount of headspace was near fatal. Even with a bottle conditioned Pale Ale, standard bottling levels lead to very noticeable darkening (a sign of oxidation), but I had a very hard time telling the difference between the standard fill and the bottles purged with CO2 in a blind taste test. I tested some various methods once with a Saison, and once with a Belgian Single(ish) beer. In those cases, I did not notice any color or flavor impacts, even after aging the bottles warm for many months.
I generally bottle condition my Belgian beers and usually don't worry much about oxidation issues. I generally keg my hoppy beers (and anything not a Belgian or high ABV). I used to brew many 1 gallon single hop batches, but I did start to notice that after about 1 month in the bottle the hop characters faded quite a bit into more generic hop characters. I suspect that was due to oxidation issues.
I won't go into details here, but I have done a few trails. For an NEIPA, the results of leaving a "standard" amount of headspace was near fatal. Even with a bottle conditioned Pale Ale, standard bottling levels lead to very noticeable darkening (a sign of oxidation), but I had a very hard time telling the difference between the standard fill and the bottles purged with CO2 in a blind taste test. I tested some various methods once with a Saison, and once with a Belgian Single(ish) beer. In those cases, I did not notice any color or flavor impacts, even after aging the bottles warm for many months.
I generally bottle condition my Belgian beers and usually don't worry much about oxidation issues. I generally keg my hoppy beers (and anything not a Belgian or high ABV). I used to brew many 1 gallon single hop batches, but I did start to notice that after about 1 month in the bottle the hop characters faded quite a bit into more generic hop characters. I suspect that was due to oxidation issues.
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
The initial post in that topic talks about purging headspace using a wine preservative (which is used to help avoid staling in open wine bottles).
Minimizing head space is discussed in the the book "Dave Millers Homebrewing Guide" ((c)1995. Concerns about bottle bombs are mentioned there as well.
There's also
which has a segment on bottling starting around the 1:05:00.
What I am seeing with my bottling process is this:
- using fresh yeast at 75F speeds up carbonation (typically 3 days vs two weeks for some highly flocculant chico strains (
). - Conditioning time appears be style specific, but ...
- ... less time carbonating / conditioning means less time for staling
- Refrigeration slows down stalling and probably doubles shelf life.
Going forward, I have some PET bottles (stronger than glass bottles and an easy squeeze to remove head space) that I may try over the next six months. I also have some wine preservative that I may try.
There's probably some additional information in these podcasts as well - although they are mostly focused on brew day considerations.
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