bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Quiet you guys, tell him he's gonna save a ton of money! Then once he's brewed a couple batches by the time he figures out we were lying he'll be done with the piss beer 
How Much Money Is There To Be Saved?
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remilard
Well-Known Member
No, you need to compare brewing vs whatever you would have done with the time. For a lot of people that is not thumb-twiddling. If you view brewing as easy work, you should be just as happy to get a part time job at Burger King for the same hours, and you'll be ahead financially for it.
Think about it this way, if I ask your wife if your brewing has saved your household money what will she say? I mean when she stops laughing?
iaefebs
Well-Known Member
I think knowing your cost is another aspect of brewing. There are many way's to save money if you start tracking cost. I suggest becoming a member of a Homebrew club... that is one way to save 10% at most LHBS. I also suggest getting to know your local micro brewer. They might allow you to piggy back on a grain order. I follow the group grain buy's here and really I get grain cheaper than the prices I see. Same with Hops buying in bulk is the way to go. Learning to reuse yeast is maybe #1 for cost cutting. The biggest cost factor may be fuel usage though and I am trying to cut cost there. I think if you follow through with a new thread there may be enough interest to get some good ideas but after 20 posts or so any thread starts to get a little less informative.
I completely agree. I doubt most people would be brewing beer instead of showing up for a job, though. You are spending time on the activity, but it's not typically time that would make you money. You also get something out of brewing beer besides beer. Time, pleasure, and experience are intangibles.
And nobody's ever going to increase their earnings by home-brewing beer (unless they're selling it illegally). Neither will they spend less making beer than if they'd drunk water. For me, the goal is to save money versus an equivalent purchase of craft beer. The OP, trying to break even versus BMC, faces a more difficult task.
The "what else would you be doing?" is only true to a point. The work I do would pay well over $50/hr if I were waged instead of salaried, but that doesn't mean that if I spend an hour to save twenty bucks that I've wasted my time. I can't just be sitting around on a Saturday night and say, "Hey, maybe some company will pay me to do [some high-tech job] for a couple of hours..." For that matter, you can't be just sitting around on a Saturday night and decide to drive to Burger King and have them pay you minimum wage for two hours. You have to actually apply for the job, get some hours scheduled, and then show up for them.
If I'm planning to build some shelves for my garage sometime this week to avoid having to pay extra to buy them (as I do plan to do), I can always be like, "Crap, no time this week. I'll do it next week." If I had a job at BK to earn the equivalent amount of money, I couldn't just be like, "Nah, I'll show up next week instead."
Unless you are doing freelance work out of the home and have so much available work that the limiting factor is your time rather than billable hours, the "Your time is worth $X" argument doesn't go very far.
malweth's last two sentences hit the nail on the head. Doing HB to save money is a dicey proposition any way you slice it, but it certainly can be done if the alternative is buying commercial craft brews. (By my estimates, the cost per batch to extract-brew a typical average gravity craft brew brings it roughly in line with the price of store-bought BMC. Obviously you have to amortize equipment costs, but still...)
I do not think one could realistically save money vs. BMC though. Especially not brewing BMC, because to do it right that would increase your upfront equipment costs (e.g. I would think you'd really need a temperature controlled environment to lager properly)
If I'm planning to build some shelves for my garage sometime this week to avoid having to pay extra to buy them (as I do plan to do), I can always be like, "Crap, no time this week. I'll do it next week." If I had a job at BK to earn the equivalent amount of money, I couldn't just be like, "Nah, I'll show up next week instead."
Unless you are doing freelance work out of the home and have so much available work that the limiting factor is your time rather than billable hours, the "Your time is worth $X" argument doesn't go very far.
malweth's last two sentences hit the nail on the head. Doing HB to save money is a dicey proposition any way you slice it, but it certainly can be done if the alternative is buying commercial craft brews. (By my estimates, the cost per batch to extract-brew a typical average gravity craft brew brings it roughly in line with the price of store-bought BMC. Obviously you have to amortize equipment costs, but still...)
I do not think one could realistically save money vs. BMC though. Especially not brewing BMC, because to do it right that would increase your upfront equipment costs (e.g. I would think you'd really need a temperature controlled environment to lager properly)
Here in Saskatchewan, alcohol has a bunch of taxes built in. A 24 pack of cans is about $47-48. I can buy a full batch worth of beer for around $60 online (includes $20 shipping). This saves me about 1/2 since I get twice the volume.
It is possible to save money brewing beer, if you go for light ales, light on the hops, and are willing to drink a few batches of not quite up to par beer. Having said that, you'll drink it and say that it's the best you've ever made.
Where I am, 5 lbs of grain, milled, is about $6.50; 1 oz of hops is another $6.50; yeast (~1 oz) is $3.50. Not counting energy costs, water, or other general things, that's about $15.50 for a light beer (granted, 2.7% abv). Add another 5 lbs of grain for another $6.50, and you have the ability to make a kick-ass "premium" beer (5.1% abv) for about $24 for 2.5 cases.
If that's cheap for you, then go for it. If that's too much to bear, then don't get into the hobby, because it's addictive on several levels.
EDIT:
For $18.30 or so, got just under 6# of LME, 1.75oz of East Kent Goldings, a packet of Nottingham yeast and some one-step sanitizer. It will make a beer about 3.9% ABV, and it will be completely in the 01A (American Lager) style.
1.040 OG
1.010 FG
10.2 IBU (Goldings are weak this year... after talking to my LHBS guy, it's been a weird year for hops)
2.4 SRM
Values are courtesy of an online brew calculator.
Where I am, 5 lbs of grain, milled, is about $6.50; 1 oz of hops is another $6.50; yeast (~1 oz) is $3.50. Not counting energy costs, water, or other general things, that's about $15.50 for a light beer (granted, 2.7% abv). Add another 5 lbs of grain for another $6.50, and you have the ability to make a kick-ass "premium" beer (5.1% abv) for about $24 for 2.5 cases.
If that's cheap for you, then go for it. If that's too much to bear, then don't get into the hobby, because it's addictive on several levels.
EDIT:
For $18.30 or so, got just under 6# of LME, 1.75oz of East Kent Goldings, a packet of Nottingham yeast and some one-step sanitizer. It will make a beer about 3.9% ABV, and it will be completely in the 01A (American Lager) style.
1.040 OG
1.010 FG
10.2 IBU (Goldings are weak this year... after talking to my LHBS guy, it's been a weird year for hops)
2.4 SRM
Values are courtesy of an online brew calculator.
Transamguy77
Well-Known Member
I am a noob got 3 batches under my belt and very much enjoy brewing, I got started not to save money but to brew a better beer than I can afford to drink. I typically drink High Life or Coors Extra Gold cause a 30 pack is about $20 and I drink a 30 pack a week.
I bought my starter kit on Craigs List for $75. I scored a 20qt aluminum pot for $20 at my local grocery store. The LHBS has extract kits for about $35 a kit and that includes steeping grains, hops, LME and liquid yeast.
So minus the equipment I bought I'm almost breaking even compared to the $40 I spend every 2 weeks and the beer is significantly better than BMC, I enjoy drinking Wheat beer but that is close to $40 a case and I can brew twice as much for what 1 case costs.
IMO it's not how much you can save but how many other kinds of beers can you now drink cause it costs less to brew it than buy it.
Also I see a lot of posts about buying a 6 pack, I live in Pa and the only way to get a six pack is to go to the local bar or six pack store and since there is no 6 pack store around me I am forced to buy cases.
I bought my starter kit on Craigs List for $75. I scored a 20qt aluminum pot for $20 at my local grocery store. The LHBS has extract kits for about $35 a kit and that includes steeping grains, hops, LME and liquid yeast.
So minus the equipment I bought I'm almost breaking even compared to the $40 I spend every 2 weeks and the beer is significantly better than BMC, I enjoy drinking Wheat beer but that is close to $40 a case and I can brew twice as much for what 1 case costs.
IMO it's not how much you can save but how many other kinds of beers can you now drink cause it costs less to brew it than buy it.
Also I see a lot of posts about buying a 6 pack, I live in Pa and the only way to get a six pack is to go to the local bar or six pack store and since there is no 6 pack store around me I am forced to buy cases.
joesixpack
Well-Known Member
I thought I would save money but not the case. I figured i drink about a 12 pack a week or 2 cases a month and you get 2 cases per keg. I like to drink Sam Adams which is roughly $15,00 per 12 pack or $60.00 for two cases. Home brew recopies are any ware from $30.00 - $45.00 at my lbs. Looking at it like that I would save $15.00 - $30.00 per month. Since my kegarator and homebrew inception Ive/friends have been drinking a keg every two weeks or two kegs a month. I'm not saying a dime in fact Im spending more but I am having a hell of a lot of fun. Not sure if my wife agrees with me but she likes all the beer Ive made so far and has drank some.
To be honest, I wouldn't go in with the plan on saving too much money, especially in the beginning when you need to buy all the equipment. If you are completely new to it, I know some may knock it, but why not start with a Mr. Beer kit?
Starting off, there is just no way you will save any money. I am only into home brewing for about 5 months, and between getting the equipment, and doing a total of 2 Mr. Beer recipes and my first 5 gallon partial mash brew, I have easily spent over $250...and that's with only making about 3 cases worth of beer. Granted, from this point on I am pretty stable besides the cost of new batches if I stay at bottling batches, but I have lots more equipment on my wish list too which costs a lot more money--find a mini-fridge or chest freezer to convert, get some corny kegs and all the associated equipment, and I would like an outdoor propane burner. All together that is at least $200 or more to spend, depending on if I find a cheap fridge/freezer on craigslist.
I don't mean to scare you away from the hobby at all, I just wouldn't go into it with the idea of saving lots of money, especially in the first year or two you get into it. If you don't have any equipment yet, I would suggest seeing if you even like brewing beer first, and get a Mr. Beer kit. For around $50 you can start making 2 gallon batches, the initial kit purchase gets you everything you need including 1-2 recipes included with it, and new recipe kits are between $20 and $30. For probably $30 to $50 more ($80 to $100 in all), you can get starter kits which usually include two 5 gallon plastic buckets, 1 for fermenting, 1 for bottling, with all the needed equipment for racking and bottling (besides bottles), its more expensive up front, but allows for bigger brews and more flexibility to upgrade. No matter what, besides the starter kits you will need a brew pot, measuring cups, a thermometer and hydrometer are very useful though not completely necessary to start off. Personally, starting with Mr. Beer helped me get a feel for the hobby, and allowed me to realize that I loved making beer, and quickly moved on to 5 gallon batches. One word of advice, start saving up your beer bottles now. You need 24 12oz bottles for a 2 gallon batch, close to 50 for a 5 gallon. Never use screw top bottles, they just don't work, so most of your Bud Light bottles are probably useless to re-use.
Starting off, there is just no way you will save any money. I am only into home brewing for about 5 months, and between getting the equipment, and doing a total of 2 Mr. Beer recipes and my first 5 gallon partial mash brew, I have easily spent over $250...and that's with only making about 3 cases worth of beer. Granted, from this point on I am pretty stable besides the cost of new batches if I stay at bottling batches, but I have lots more equipment on my wish list too which costs a lot more money--find a mini-fridge or chest freezer to convert, get some corny kegs and all the associated equipment, and I would like an outdoor propane burner. All together that is at least $200 or more to spend, depending on if I find a cheap fridge/freezer on craigslist.
I don't mean to scare you away from the hobby at all, I just wouldn't go into it with the idea of saving lots of money, especially in the first year or two you get into it. If you don't have any equipment yet, I would suggest seeing if you even like brewing beer first, and get a Mr. Beer kit. For around $50 you can start making 2 gallon batches, the initial kit purchase gets you everything you need including 1-2 recipes included with it, and new recipe kits are between $20 and $30. For probably $30 to $50 more ($80 to $100 in all), you can get starter kits which usually include two 5 gallon plastic buckets, 1 for fermenting, 1 for bottling, with all the needed equipment for racking and bottling (besides bottles), its more expensive up front, but allows for bigger brews and more flexibility to upgrade. No matter what, besides the starter kits you will need a brew pot, measuring cups, a thermometer and hydrometer are very useful though not completely necessary to start off. Personally, starting with Mr. Beer helped me get a feel for the hobby, and allowed me to realize that I loved making beer, and quickly moved on to 5 gallon batches. One word of advice, start saving up your beer bottles now. You need 24 12oz bottles for a 2 gallon batch, close to 50 for a 5 gallon. Never use screw top bottles, they just don't work, so most of your Bud Light bottles are probably useless to re-use.
after i started homebrewing i started buying beers i would have never considered before. $10-12 bottles of belgian saison, $13 six packs of german kolsch and so on. i've been spending more money on beer period.
When I read this, I thought back to when I started. I thought that there is NO way anyone is going to get me to try a beer called Hobgoblin, 10W40, or any stout at all.
Since then, I tried a few different things, and now I've settled on a whole bunch of stuff that I would have thought that only belonged to the EAC crowd.
Transamguy77
Well-Known Member
If you are completely new to it, I know some may knock it, but why not start with a Mr. Beer kit?
I started with a Mr Beer kit too, it was a Christmas present from a good friend of mine and he got me like 3 more additional kits, I quickly went out and bought a "big boy" brew kit.
I started with a Mr Beer kit too, it was a Christmas present from a good friend of mine and he got me like 3 more additional kits, I quickly went out and bought a "big boy" brew kit.
Let's see: propane burner and kettle: $70. Trub screen and valve kit: $50. Sight glass: $30.
3 carboys: $90 3 1g carboys: $15 misc bottling/testing equipment: $100
Fermentation chamber and controllers: $300
Triple tier stand plumbed with copper, with cfc and march pump: $400
I'm sure I'm missing some things, buy I'm approximately $1000 into the hobby.
Even buying in bulk (which I NEED to start doing), it's going to be quite some time before I'm in the black.
It's a labor of love. If it wasn't so relaxing/enjoyable, I wouldn't be doing it. Maybe someday it will save me money, but not in the foreseeable future.
3 carboys: $90 3 1g carboys: $15 misc bottling/testing equipment: $100
Fermentation chamber and controllers: $300
Triple tier stand plumbed with copper, with cfc and march pump: $400
I'm sure I'm missing some things, buy I'm approximately $1000 into the hobby.
Even buying in bulk (which I NEED to start doing), it's going to be quite some time before I'm in the black.
It's a labor of love. If it wasn't so relaxing/enjoyable, I wouldn't be doing it. Maybe someday it will save me money, but not in the foreseeable future.
Its interesting im reading alot of you guys spending 16-30 dollars on 5 gallon batches. And i guess id be there too before i discovered buying bulk grain and hops. Now i can brew 10 gallons for $15, counting grain, hops, yeast electricity and cleaning chemicals. Now im sure im not ahead yet considering im close to 2k into equipment, kegs controllers various fittings and tools to build stuff. Probably never will be, i want some conicals and more corny kegs to brew with. Oh well, my friend once told me he was 5k into aquarium fish, my jaw dropped, i said to him, you cant drink fish can you?
Its actually pretty funny, you can find cheap local beer for 8-10 bucks a 6 pack. Cold BMC is in and around 25 dollars for 12. So heres where it gets crazy, i can brew a 12 pack of 5% awesome tasting beer for around $1.60. That right there makes it all worth it
Its actually pretty funny, you can find cheap local beer for 8-10 bucks a 6 pack. Cold BMC is in and around 25 dollars for 12. So heres where it gets crazy, i can brew a 12 pack of 5% awesome tasting beer for around $1.60. That right there makes it all worth it
Gwitz said:Its interesting im reading alot of you guys spending 16-30 dollars on 5 gallon batches. And i guess id be there too before i discovered buying bulk grain and hops. Now i can brew 10 gallons for $15, counting grain, hops, yeast electricity and cleaning chemicals. Now im sure im not ahead yet considering im close to 2k into equipment, kegs controllers various fittings and tools to build stuff. Probably never will be, i want some conicals and more corny kegs to brew with. Oh well, my friend once told me he was 5k into aquarium fish, my jaw dropped, i said to him, you cant drink fish can you?
Its actually pretty funny, you can find cheap local beer for 8-10 bucks a 6 pack. Cold BMC is in and around 25 dollars for 12. So heres where it gets crazy, i can brew a 12 pack of 5% awesome tasting beer for around $1.60. That right there makes it all worth it
God I need to find a "bulk buddy" and get in on a group buy
Bithead
Well-Known Member
Try the Group Buys forum
Beer Geek Alert- No way that is a 1A. No way. It's not a lager unless it's lager yeast (a different species than ale yeast completely), and no EKG and Nottingham. EKG and nottingham will make an English bitter. But certainly not an American Lager! But I bet it's a darn fine bitter.
StittsvilleJames
Well-Known Member
You know, you could probably re-purpose all your equipment from other sources, and not really spend anyting on equipment.
The only thing I think you would need to buy special, would be a hydrometer.
What else would you really need:
fermenter - hit up restaurants for used food grade buckets. Fryer oil, for example, comes in large buckets, and is easy to clean with soap and water.
airlock - any hose and glass of water would work as an airlock.
racking tube/cane - beer line hose costs a few cents a foot, buy a few feet, and you can rack / bottle.
boil kettle - I use my canning pot. It holds 3 gallons, so I'm not doing full boils, but you don't need to do full boils.
thermometer - cheap, easy to find.
sanitizer - bleach. not ideal, but it would work. Alternatively, tons of other sanitizers at the grocery store for kitchen item usage.
bottles - ask restaurants and bars. Alot of them will sell them to you for cheap, if they don't just give them away. (especially if you're a good patron!)
I think if you wanted to do all this on the cheap, you could get away with spending less than 10$ on equipment, and all you would then need is your ingredients.
Than, once you have a few batces under your belt for cheap, you buy a carboy. Few batches more, you buy a bottling wand. etc etc.
The hobby is only as expensive as you want it to be, and you could save money starting on beer #1 if you really wanted to.
The only thing I think you would need to buy special, would be a hydrometer.
What else would you really need:
fermenter - hit up restaurants for used food grade buckets. Fryer oil, for example, comes in large buckets, and is easy to clean with soap and water.
airlock - any hose and glass of water would work as an airlock.
racking tube/cane - beer line hose costs a few cents a foot, buy a few feet, and you can rack / bottle.
boil kettle - I use my canning pot. It holds 3 gallons, so I'm not doing full boils, but you don't need to do full boils.
thermometer - cheap, easy to find.
sanitizer - bleach. not ideal, but it would work. Alternatively, tons of other sanitizers at the grocery store for kitchen item usage.
bottles - ask restaurants and bars. Alot of them will sell them to you for cheap, if they don't just give them away. (especially if you're a good patron!)
I think if you wanted to do all this on the cheap, you could get away with spending less than 10$ on equipment, and all you would then need is your ingredients.
Than, once you have a few batces under your belt for cheap, you buy a carboy. Few batches more, you buy a bottling wand. etc etc.
The hobby is only as expensive as you want it to be, and you could save money starting on beer #1 if you really wanted to.
oldtrucker
Active Member
Most of you aren't being just about the cost. The op is talking bmc. I brew extract only. I don't brew because I like to. I brew to save money. You can brew a comparable beer to bmc for less. For instance, Muntons Caniadian draught is total cost of roughly $25 for 6 gallons. That's close to $1 Qt. That's a shade over $.03 an ounce or $.36 a 12 ounce beer. Less than $2.50 a 6 pak. The Muntons is a better beer to me than bmc. If I couldn't save money, I wouldn't be brewing and I've been brewing for 7 years. I've settled on doing business with Austin Homebrew supply almost exclusively. They enable me to make good beer at a reasonable price. I uderstand if one uses the boil in bag method that all grain brewing is much cheaper.
Old Trucker
Old Trucker
Okay... you caught me making a mistake. I used Nottingham, and the temperature is around 18*C, so this makes a light ale, not a lager. Mea culpa.
Other than that... I wish I had space to be able to store and mill grain to buy bulk.
oldtrucker said:
Actually, we are figuring out total cost, involving supplies, equipment, etc.
You only included the cost in ingredients. When figuring out cost only considering ingredients, yes, it's cheaper. Add in labor, equipment, materials, it's nowhere close. If you're only considering ingredients, you are lying to yourself.
Ex: if I came to work on a sat morning and worked the same amount of time it took to brew 2 cases of beer, and stopped on the way home and picked up two cases, I would be ahead. A similar methodology should be used when determining if you should paint a room or hire someone. It is rather important to know how much ones time is worth.
It costs far more to brew than most realize, however, ignorance is bliss.
You are quite right... if I were working overtime for the length of time I were brewing, then I would certainly stop off at my overpriced due to tax LCBO store and get some beers that I really like and still come out ahead.
When I am doing a hobby, though, I find it enjoyable and do not count my time as an expense. That's my choice. I have already paid for my brewing equipment. I'm not an accountant, and I'm not going to amortize my used equipment down to the last penny to find out the true cost of brewing. My bill today was $27.50, including a brewing thermometer that I somehow misplaced.
This sounds bitter, and I don't mean it to be. I love brewing, and would rather brew than get drunk. Actually, drinking has become a chore, rather than a relaxing hobby. Sucky.
chrismcdaniel3128
Well-Known Member
My question is what is so hard about brewing a bmc, I threw in some flaked corn, rice extract, extra light dme, wilmaette, ( a whole ounce!), dry lager yeast, fermented cold, 6 weeks later even my "swill" drinking buddies who said they would never touch my home brew were saying how good it was. Maybe it WAS just better,
Man down
Man down
Vuarra said:
I'm with you completely. I enjoy brewing far more than drinking in excess. That's why I brew small batches.
But From a purely financial standpoint: homebrewing is usually a loss.
We do it because it's something we enjoy, not because it's cheaper for us to do so.
@Chris: brewing a bmc isn't terribly hard. Brewing thousands of gallons a week with minimal differences between every beer brewed is the hard part. Consistency is the homebrewers curse
Brewing a BMC itself is not that hard... but doing it consistently batch after batch, year after year, is a nightmare that gives me cold sweats. I can't even get a standardized recipe to taste the same after brewing it once.
That would really surprise me. I'm not a Miller Light fan but I must say they do it brilliantly. No off-flavors, no cloudiness, and it's always the same. I don't want to doubt someone, but saying you "threw" in some corn, rice extract, and dry lager yeast and came up with a superior product surprises me. If you can indeed beat BMC at their own game, you are sitting on a million dollars.
I make some very nice beers. I've made some wonderful American lagers, and some German lagers. No way can I beat BMC. You're probably more skilled than I am, because I can't do it, especially not at their price.
chrismcdaniel3128
Well-Known Member
Definitely not saying I'm more skilled, then anyone, still have a lot to learn, put my bmc clone in a glass you can definitely see a difference, it's just I found it really simple to make something remarkably similar with such little effort. It wasn't really thrown together I just took what I learned from this forum and put it to use.
I'm sure I'll try it again and eat my words. It may just be the fact that it's something I've made that turned out better then expected, and my buddies liked it, sorry to come out as a braggart
I'm sure I'll try it again and eat my words. It may just be the fact that it's something I've made that turned out better then expected, and my buddies liked it, sorry to come out as a braggart
chrismcdaniel3128
Well-Known Member
When you find it..........
When I find it, my next hurdle will be how to continue making it the exact same way, time after time.
When that happens, I'm applying to Molson Coors to become a Brewmaster... if I can do it with 5 gallons....
When that happens, I'm applying to Molson Coors to become a Brewmaster... if I can do it with 5 gallons....
atgunning
Well-Known Member
You only really save money making barleywines, imperial stouts and other "bigger" beers. A good imperial stout starts around $6 for a 22oz bottle, and goes up from there. The cost for a 5 gallon batch of imperial stout is around $35-$50 depending on ingredients, which makes 29 of those 22oz bottles.
You dont save money trying to clone Sam Adams, etc.
You dont save money trying to clone Sam Adams, etc.
Just do it. i can brew a batch for about 28$, 5-6 gallons. my problem is when i go pick up my ingredients, i usually end up buying extra yeast, sanitizer, etc. but it's definately worth it, great beer and great learning experience. also a good feeling when someone has one of your brews and tells you thats f****** awesome man! i love it!
stevedasleeve
Well-Known Member
My brewdays are in the $20-30 range per 5 gallons for damn good beer. Far far less than the craft brews around here which range from $8-12/6 pack, and in most cases my beer is better tasting than any of them! I am done buying equipment, I have what I need and have had this rig a year or so unimproved.
In other words, yes, after your initial investment you can make fantastic beer for a fraction of what it costs.
In other words, yes, after your initial investment you can make fantastic beer for a fraction of what it costs.
stevedasleeve
Well-Known Member
Your math does not relate at all to me. I brewed a Sierra Nevadaish ale three weeks ago, kegging tomorrow, and my total cost was $17.12 for 5 full gallons in the keg, or about $7.75/case.
stevedasleeve
Well-Known Member
Labor - really? Do you figure in labor cost for, say, playing soft ball or watching a movie? Do you compute labor for the time you spend making love? How about dinner time - 45 mins is, what $20?
And equipment is a one time deal with a slight bit of maintenance - IMHO and IM experience also.
The rest is ingredients. My last several 5 gallon batches cost me $23.73, $19.89, $21.81, $35.08, $26.68, $30.36, $22.26, $24.01, $21.63, $17.12, $23.67, and $15.06 not in order.
FWIW and YMMV of course and probably does!
Steve
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