How long do you use pure O2 for?

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I do about 30 sec for 5 gallon batch and keep in mind that 0.5L per min is not a fully open valve pressure. It's somewhere in between. Steady vigorous bubbling without going all "crazy"
 
Not having access to a DO meter I rely on others to set some pertinent metrics.
Chris White in Yeast suggests 12ppm is a desirable number to hit.
And he provided a table (page 79) showing a .5u air stone with pure O2 running at 1 lpm for 120 seconds brought the test batch to a bit over 14 ppm.

Based on that, I run a .5u air stone (the Williams SS wand) at .5 lpm for 4 minutes, swirling the whole time...

Cheers!
 
Wow 4 minutes? I did about 1 minute at .5 lpm with a .5u stone. Should I add more? I just pitched about 6 hours ago.
 
day trippr offers precise advice. My practice is to pitch the yeast and use the O2 stone to stir it in. When it gets pretty frothy on top and is riding up the sides I turn off the O2. The higher the O.G., the higher I let it ride up the side of the fermentation vessel. I'm sure there's a "Baby Bear" setting, but bought the stone and the tank to make sure I got more O2 in than I could shaking. Good results with 'that seems like enough' guesswork for me.

I think getting the right temp, nutrients and amount of yeast has a much greater impact on good fermentation than the number of seconds with the stone.

I usually run it 20-40 seconds, but sometimes I open the valve more than others.
 
TallDan said:
I generally refer to this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=414616

Thing is, unless i misunderstand it, it seems to assume that the wort starts with 8ppm of oxygen, which doesn't make sense based on my understanding of boiled wort.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, I remember that thread helping me justify my O2 system.
Are you referring to this constant being subtracted?
time = 0.113 * (volume / flow rate) * (ppm - 8.1019)

It seems odd to subtract a constant when you don't know the agitation rate of the wort chilling process. Letting it cool overnight would certainly add less O2 than using a CFC with a slow stream through a plastic diffuser at the end of a hose.

I'm no chemist, just spitballin'.
 
Not sure how accurate it is but this equation is from that thread (time = 0.113 * (volume / flow rate) * (ppm - 8.1019)). Time is aeration time in minutes, volume is gallons in fermentor, flow rate is liters per minute and ppm is amount of O2 you want. So if I have 5.5 gallons at .5lpm and wanting to get 12ppm, I should have used almost 5 minutes of O2.

Danstar mentioned on their site that dry yeast doesn't need O2 like liquid yeast does. The reason is that dry yeast have the necessary amount of fatty acids where liquid yeast need the O2 to produce the fatty acids. They did say O2 wouldn't hurt dry yeast.

I guess for this batch, I'll just leave it alone and see what happens. Next one I'll go with that equation and see how it goes.
 
jamaral141989 said:
I use a dissolved oxygen meter. Helps me nail my O2 ppm each time.
Click to expand...

Bastid! :D

Seriously, though, there was an HBTer a couple/few years ago with a DO meter that shared his oxygenation process, which correlated well with what White published in Yeast, and steered me to my current 4 minutes @ .5 lpm through a .5u stone.

More data is always welcome. So, what's your recipe?

Cheers!
 
jamaral141989 said:
I use a dissolved oxygen meter. Helps me nail my O2 ppm each time.
Click to expand...

Not at the point were I want to spend that kind of money for measuring O2....but it sounds like you are volunteering to do a few tests for us lol

day_trippr said:
Bastid! :D

Seriously, though, there was an HBTer a couple/few years ago with a DO meter that shared his oxygenation process, which correlated well with what White published in Yeast, and steered me to my current 4 minutes @ .5 lpm through a .5u stone.

More data is always welcome. So, what's your recipe?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

That equation I posted from the linked thread gets me close to your 4 minute time too (which is good to know). Assuming a 5 gallon batch at .5 lpm trying to get 12ppm, I got 4.4 minutes.
 
Hoppity said:
Thanks for the link, I remember that thread helping me justify my O2 system.
Are you referring to this constant being subtracted?
time = 0.113 * (volume / flow rate) * (ppm - 8.1019)

It seems odd to subtract a constant when you don't know the agitation rate of the wort chilling process. Letting it cool overnight would certainly add less O2 than using a CFC with a slow stream through a plastic diffuser at the end of a hose.

I'm no chemist, just spitballin'.
Click to expand...

Yep, exactly. It seems to assume that your wort will have 8.1019 ppm of o2 when this starts, which seems to be an oddly specific amount. It does, however, seem to line up with other sources on the maximum amount of dissolved o2 that can get into wort by shaking or aerating with normal air. Thing is, I'm using o2 for two reasons, and one of them is because it's easier than shaking my fermenters.
 
I also bought the NB kit and used it for the first time with my last 1.054 pale ale. Ran it wide open for 45 seconds, continuously moving it around. The wort fermented out like crazy and finished at 1.012 so I figure for typical brews, 45 seconds is adequate. Note that I still did my typical recirculating during cooling, spraying through a nozzle in the kettle lid. I also pumped into the fermenter in a pretty splashy manner. Both of which I had previously relied solely on for oxygenation. Point is, the pure oxygen got a like help from those additional activities.
 
TallDan said:
Yep, exactly. It seems to assume that your wort will have 8.1019 ppm of o2 when this starts, which seems to be an oddly specific amount. It does, however, seem to line up with other sources on the maximum amount of dissolved o2 that can get into wort by shaking or aerating with normal air. Thing is, I'm using o2 for two reasons, and one of them is because it's easier than shaking my fermenters.
Click to expand...

Are we sure that 8.1 figure is o2 already in the wort being subtracted out and not something else? Let's remove that from the equation. 5.5 gallon batch, .5 lpm trying to get 12ppm I come out to almost 15 minutes. That doesn't seem right at all. Let's make it 2 lpm. I get almost 4 minutes which seems way too long. It would seem like that 8.1 figure needs to be in the equation, though I'm not sure what it is for.
 
Yeastieboy said:
I also bought the NB kit and used it for the first time with my last 1.054 pale ale. Ran it wide open for 45 seconds, continuously moving it around. The wort fermented out like crazy and finished at 1.012 so I figure for typical brews, 45 seconds is adequate. Note that I still did my typical recirculating during cooling, spraying through a nozzle in the kettle lid. I also pumped into the fermenter in a pretty splashy manner. Both of which I had previously relied solely on for oxygenation. Point is, the pure oxygen got a like help from those additional activities.
Click to expand...

It just seems really odd that the kit says 45 seconds fully opened but the flow meter says 30 seconds at .5 lpm. Maybe at the higher rate o2 doesn't dissolve as well? I wouldn't think that would matter.
 
h22lude said:
Are we sure that 8.1 figure is o2 already in the wort being subtracted out and not something else? Let's remove that from the equation. 5.5 gallon batch, .5 lpm trying to get 12ppm I come out to almost 15 minutes. That doesn't seem right at all. Let's make it 2 lpm. I get almost 4 minutes which seems way too long. It would seem like that 8.1 figure needs to be in the equation, though I'm not sure what it is for.
Click to expand...


Well, leave the 8.1 in and solve for a target of 8ppm...
 
day_trippr said:
Bastid! :D

Seriously, though, there was an HBTer a couple/few years ago with a DO meter that shared his oxygenation process, which correlated well with what White published in Yeast, and steered me to my current 4 minutes @ .5 lpm through a .5u stone.

More data is always welcome. So, what's your recipe?

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I would have to pick the book up again but from what I remember that seems extremely longer than the book. My process is 1 min per five gallon batch under .060, close to two minutes for lagers and higher gravity beers and I sometimes hit beers over.090 twelve to twenty four hours into fermentation.

Going to have to take a look at that thread you mentioned.
 
TallDan said:
Well, leave the 8.1 in and solve for a target of 8ppm...
Click to expand...

Good point. Maybe the equation assumes some splashing happens during transfer from kettle to fermentor. I know 8ppm is known to be the most o2 introduced when shaking. Maybe 8.1019ppm is the most o2 that has been dissolved from shaking during DO testing.

I'd be interested to see a DO test on wort that was transferred to the fermentor but never aerated. I wonder if the act of transferring introduces the same amount of o2 as shaking and we really don't need to shake it as much as we do.
 
Yeastieboy said:
I also bought the NB kit and used it for the first time with my last 1.054 pale ale. Ran it wide open for 45 seconds, continuously moving it around. The wort fermented out like crazy and finished at 1.012 so I figure for typical brews, 45 seconds is adequate. Note that I still did my typical recirculating during cooling, spraying through a nozzle in the kettle lid. I also pumped into the fermenter in a pretty splashy manner. Both of which I had previously relied solely on for oxygenation. Point is, the pure oxygen got a like help from those additional activities.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same as above and that is why I do not sweat over it. From the few stalls I have had, it is more of a lack of proper pitch rate(someone went over estimated O.G)
 
JBOGAN said:
I would have to pick the book up again but from what I remember that seems extremely longer than the book. My process is 1 min per five gallon batch under .060, close to two minutes for lagers and higher gravity beers and I sometimes hit beers over.090 twelve to twenty four hours into fermentation.

Going to have to take a look at that thread you mentioned.
Click to expand...

But are you using a flow meter at .5 lpm? If you are not using a flow meter and opening the reg wide open, 1 minute is probably correct. At .5 lpm, you need more time and 4 minutes seems correct (from what others are doing and using that equation). Using the equation with 5 gallons, at 2.5 lpm (which is what my flow meter goes up to but I'm sure wide open would be more) and target of 12ppm, I get 51 seconds. So your 1 minute wide open is right on with the equation and the 4 minutes at .5 lpm is also right on.
 
I do not have a flow meter. I have the older Williams w long wand. I open the valve until I can see it coming to the surface. Not even close to full open. I do 90seconds and swirl the wand. I do 12.5 gallons in the fermenter. I read some material from a local brewer that went pro. She stated this process tested with DO meter, put her at 10 ppm. Close enough for me. I personally think the aeration going into the fermenter is enough. I'm more concerned with pitching active yeast.
 
I could do some tests with my DO meter when I do some batches on our pilot system.
 
I watched a video presentation White Labs (Neva Parker) did at Northern Brewer about yeast. Cool video to watch. I suggest watching the whole thing but for this thread skip to the 13 minute mark. She starts talking about DO and puts up a chart of an experiment she did. She made a 18.7° Plato beer (which I think is about 1.077 SG) and then tested the amount of DO at specific times. I emailed White Labs to see what flow rate they used and I just got an email last night saying it was 4 L/minute. At 0 seconds she measured almost 3ppm which means no pure O2 was used and that is the O2 that gets dissolved just from transferring (cool to know). She then measured at 30 seconds (5ppm), 1 minute (9ppm) and 2 minutes (14ppm). I responded to their email to see if they remember the batch size (I'd assume 5 gallons since they are doing it for home brewers). Looks like the 1 minute at 4L/minute is the sweet spot. I wish they did a few more batches at different flow rates. My flow meter only goes up to 2.5L/minute.

Not sure if this helps anyone but I thought it was a good video nonetheless.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ[/ame]
 
h22lude said:
I watched a video presentation White Labs (Neva Parker) did at Northern Brewer about yeast. Cool video to watch. I suggest watching the whole thing but for this thread skip to the 13 minute mark. She starts talking about DO and puts up a chart of an experiment she did. She made a 18.7° Plato beer (which I think is about 1.077 SG) and then tested the amount of DO at specific times. I emailed White Labs to see what flow rate they used and I just got an email last night saying it was 4 L/minute. At 0 seconds she measured almost 3ppm which means no pure O2 was used and that is the O2 that gets dissolved just from transferring (cool to know). She then measured at 30 seconds (5ppm), 1 minute (9ppm) and 2 minutes (14ppm). I responded to their email to see if they remember the batch size (I'd assume 5 gallons since they are doing it for home brewers). Looks like the 1 minute at 4L/minute is the sweet spot. I wish they did a few more batches at different flow rates. My flow meter only goes up to 2.5L/minute.

Not sure if this helps anyone but I thought it was a good video nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vELwUsBmWQ
Click to expand...

Since your flow rate is constant why wouldn't you dial it back to 2 LPM, but go for 2 minutes? In theory you should come to the same result as the 4LPM for 1 minute.
 
EcuPirate07 said:
Since your flow rate is constant why wouldn't you dial it back to 2 LPM, but go for 2 minutes? In theory you should come to the same result as the 4LPM for 1 minute.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is what I'll most likely end up doing. Just didn't know if it was linear. That means at .5L/minute it would have to be for 8 minutes. I think the slower the rate, the smaller the bubbles which helps the O2 dissolve better which wouldn't make it linear.

I still think this would be an awesome experiment for someone with a DO meter.
 
Dog House Brew said:
I do not have a flow meter. I have the older Williams w long wand. I open the valve until I can see it coming to the surface. Not even close to full open. I do 90seconds and swirl the wand. I do 12.5 gallons in the fermenter. I read some material from a local brewer that went pro. She stated this process tested with DO meter, put her at 10 ppm. Close enough for me. I personally think the aeration going into the fermenter is enough. I'm more concerned with pitching active yeast.
Click to expand...

If you do 90 seconds for 12.5 gallons, it stands to reason that shorter time would be adequate for 5-6 gallons...maybe 30 to 45 seconds?
 
Have the Williams brewing wand, has anyone ever noticed liquid in the line before? I was just oxygenating wort and noticed what looks to be water droplets inside the tubing, haven't noticed that before thought it was peculiar, just hooked up a new tank wonder if that has anything to do with it?
 
I've noticed that on occasion over the years. I use ~4 feet of regular 3/16" ID-7/16" OD PVC beer line on my O2 rig and have seen droplets of (presumably) H2O inside the tubing.

Love to be able to explain it outright - like, humidity from ambient air inside the tubing suddenly being chilled.
But O2 is just compressed, not liquified, so I don't think there's an endothermic transaction going on when gas is flowing.

Never had a bad batch so whatever it is, it's benign...

Cheers!
 
I just oxygenated a LODO batch and let it run very slowly for several minutes. Felt like it needed it.
 

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