How long can Apfelwein age in Primary?

[Tarheel4985]

So this seems like a pretty basic question but I haven't been able to find the answer. I apologize in advance if this has already been covered, but what's the longest I can leave Apfelwein aging in the primary?

I am not a big fan of secondaries and have only used them a handful of times but I know there is a risk of autolysis over time. For most of my beers, I leave them in the primary for at least a month, sometimes 2 but I haven't gone much past that until these Apfelwein batches. I made 2 batches of EdWort's Apfelwein over 11 weeks ago and they have both been in the Primary (5 gallon carboys) since. Obviously fermentation is done and both batches are crystal clear but I know from experience that the longer Apfelwein ages the better. I'm just wondering if I can continue to age it in the primary or if I need to rack to a secondary for further aging. I'm going to be kegging both batches so I imagine I could just rack them both to kegs and leave them at 70 deg F to age as long as I release the pressure every once in a while.

So am I fine to leave them in the primary a little longer, and if so, how long is too long?

If I do rack them to something else to age, should I rack them to a secondary carboy or just right into the kegs?

If I age them in the kegs, is there any problem leaving them at 70 deg F? Or would it be more beneficial to cold condition them in the kegerator at 40 deg F instead?

I plan to tap one batch in the next month or so but the other batch I plan to leave until Christmas or New Year's. I would hate to lose the Apfelwein to autolysis but I also think most people are over-cautious when it comes to worrying about autolysis. Has anyone ever actually experienced a problem with it? I hear everyone warn about it but have never read anyone that can pinpoint that as the problem with a bad batch. What would be the off-flavor produced?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Arkador]

I primary it for about 1 month, then secondary for 3 months in a keg before chilling/carbing.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Well, I can't help you with the off flavors of autolysis as I've never experienced it...

But, I would recommend aging in a keg at 70 degrees as you've said. There's no benefit of leaving it in the primary after it's cleared. I've only done two batches of apfelwein. My first was left in primary for 6 weeks. My second was left for 10 weeks. The 10 week definately tasted much better right off the bat. But, aging apfelwein for 8+ months is MUCH better.

 

[velotech]

I make my apfelwein with a little higher gravity (10+ %), so mine stay in primary about 8 weeks. Then, like the others, into a keg and age for months. I prime it as soon as it goes into the keg. So far, it's always turned out excellent. I've never read or heard of someone experiencing autolysis with leaving apfelwein in primary too long.

 

[Tarheel4985]

Thanks for all the recommendations. I will rack both batches into kegs this week and continue to age until I can't wait any longer or forget about them all together (the former is more likely).

 

[Dougan]

I think the reason you have trouble finding the answer is because autolysis is widely debated. Personally, I believe it might be a long term concern but I think 2 or 3 months isn't a big deal.

Long term aging, though, I would still say secondary, just because you get it off the yeast cake and it can clear better.

 

[TipsyDragon]

generally a month is about as long as you want to keep beer in a primary. both primary and secondary fermentation should be done by that point. if you wish to age longer you can rack to either a glass carboy or keg.

i recommend the keg because it eliminates light exposure. leaving them at 70F is highly recommended because the yeast that is still in the beer will say active and age the beer.

you want to move them to a 35-40F kegerator about a week before you serve so the yeast will settle out of the beer.

 

[Tarheel4985]

Just an update for anyone following this thread. I racked both batches of Apfelwein into kegs after 13 weeks in the primary. I left one to age in the keg at room temp and put the other in the kegerator. The first hydrometer sample I took of each led me to believe there were absolutely no off-flavors from autolysis. I have since sampled the one in the kegerator that has been carbonated, and still no signs of any off-flavors. It's very smooth and has benefited greatly from the extra weeks of aging.

Conclusion: Even after more than 3 months in the primary, no signs of autolysis (at least in taste). I'd be willing to bet even another month or two would be safe. I'm still waiting for evidence from someone who has experienced off-flavors from autolysis. At this point, I think it may be a myth in homebrewing used to sell more carboys and better bottles.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am not sure, but my uber lazy brother and dad have some apfelwein still int the primary from January 2009. Someday maybe I will know what they taste like...

 

[mrk305]

I put some in the 'fridge this morning that was bottled 12-29-07.

 

[DKershner]

I'll test it...I have one that I mixed up on 8/29 and I am not planning on touching it until April or May. It is more of an experiment than anything else as I am not too much of a fan of Apfelwein. I still have a batch that was bottled out of the keg not too long ago, but was mixed up several months ago. I'll taste em side by side and see if I can find an off-taste on the yeast after 8 months.

 

[chrisrush]

Apfelwein is a little different than normal beer, especially since you use a wine yeast instead of a beer yeast. From what I've read, you can leave it on primary for quite a while (months).

 

[TeufelBrew]

Started a 5 gallon batch January 3rd of this year (09). Kegged in August. DAAAAMMMMNNNNN is that tasty! Yes, that means over 7 months in primary because I didn't rack to secondary.

 

[steelerguy]

I kept some in primary for 6 months (lazy!) and it was just fine.

 

[WilliamstonBrew]

I have had mine in primary for 6 months... I am FINALLY going to bottle it this weekend. I have just been a lazy bastard. I have no kegging system (yet) so with the capacity to ferment three batches, the Apfelwein just took a back seat. It's not clear, but I don't care, I want some wine!

My wife is so eager for it (hehehe) that she's having me pull some of the wine out tonight. I guess I get to see what it tastes like.

Edit: DAMMMN it's SO much smoother and more mellow. Absolutely awesome... not even sure if we're going to carbonate, it's so good right from the primary (actually from a Mason jar... used the wine thief [aptly named] to gank some).

 

[FreakinA]

Oh shhht. I just realized I have 2 fermenters full of apfelwien from just about a year ago.(made last november) I was long term primarying them. Hopefully they are ok I will check on them tonight and get back to you. I just googled taste of autolysis and it says I will CLEARLY know if it has occured. So ill go ahead and be the gineau pig for you people.

 

[arturo7]

I've had 5 in the primary since July 15. Guess I better get off my butt and rack it off the cake soon.

Unless FreakinA says his is OK.

In which case, I can persist in the procrastination.

 

[Moe]

Oh shhht. I just realized I have 2 fermenters full of apfelwien from just about a year ago.(made last november) I was long term primarying them. Hopefully they are ok I will check on them tonight and get back to you. I just googled taste of autolysis and it says I will CLEARLY know if it has occured. So ill go ahead and be the gineau pig for you people.

FreakinA, what's the prognosis? Are your batches going to make it?

Thanks,

Moe

 

[FreakinA]

Well I am going to keg one and bottle the other as soon as I rescue my regulator from my car. The sample I had was warm and it was pretty good I guess. I used brown sugar in both batches, and it had a very strong maple syrup taste to it.

 

[petep1980]

I didn't know apfelwein aged for so long. I started mine in late September hoping it'd be ready for this winter....guess not.

 

[Munsoned]

I aged my AW 3 months in primary, then kegged and drank. No problems whatsoever. No autolysis, not too hot. I may do another batch and try to hit 6 or 12 months.

My completely unfounded, unscientific, and perhaps non-logical theory on autolysis: it CAN be a problem for homebrewers, but very few of us have actually experienced it, even with some pretty long-term aging. It seems to be more prevalent in the commercial setting. My conclusion: maybe it has to do with the amount of pressure that a LOT of beer (barrels, not gallons) puts on the yeast. Sure, time and a small amount of beer can make it happen too, but I'm getting this gut feeling that it may have something to do with time AND quantity, not just time. Again, no scientific basis whatsoever to back any of that up...