How do you sanitize your plate chiller prior to chilling?

[kombat]

Up until now, I've been setting up my plate chiller in the last 15 minutes of the boil and running StarSan through it backwards, to sanitize it. Then at knockout, I switch the inputs and hook it up to the kettle valve, and start pumping wort through it, recirculating back to the boil kettle. A drawback of this is the first couple quarts that come out of the output hose are StarSan, or a mix of StarSan and wort, so I have to direct that to a bucket until I'm getting 100% wort, then carefully move the hose to the boil kettle trying not to spill too much.

But it occurred to me I might be making this more complicated than it needs to be. I'm tempted to try skipping the StarSan completely, and hooking the chiller and pump up to the kettle with 5 minutes to go left in the boil. I'd then turn on the pump and run the still-boiling wort through the hoses and chiller, back to the boil kettle for the last 5 minutes of the boil. Then at knockout, I'd just turn on the chilling water to the plate chiller and actually start chilling the wort instead of just recirculating it.

5 minutes of boiling wort should sanitize the plate chiller, hoses, pump, and fittings sufficiently, right? Does anyone already use this method?

 

[landlockedbrewer]

Do not skip the StarSan. Never skip any sanitizing step ever. You're doing it the correct way. You're sanitizing the exact way we do our heat exchangers in the professional brewing world. We're all just glorified janitors.


Beer Slave Extraordinaire

"Fortune Favors The Bold"

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[TBaGZ]

A lot of people just recirc the boiling wort, and don't do the star san step. You won't kill anything with the star san that boiling wort won't.

 

[WissaBrewGuy]

So I actually do both of these things. I soak the chiller in pbw or oxyclean prior to and after every brew session. I do this early on in the brew day. Then with 20min till flameout I soak the chiller in starsan for 5min or so (times are relative so take them with a grain of salt). Then with 10min left in the boil I hook up my pump/chiller assembly and start to recirc the wort through the chiller. The issue with this method is that pulling the wort away from its heat will stop the boil of the wort. Usually I dont mind because even if I'm adding late hop additions its ok that the wort is 200F instead of 212F but if you really need to keep the wort boiling this method will not work. I hope someone else can chime in and tell me if my process is ok.

 

[conneryis007]

The "food safe" for restaurants method, for hot water sanitization, is above 180*F for 30 seconds!
Star san and then a hot wort recirc is overkill and redundant!
This of course is just talking about sanitization, not the first step of cleaning!!

 

[madhatt3r]

I starsan, dump it, and then foil the input and output. Then it goes in the oven at 400 for the length of the boil. Take it out with 5 mins to go, hook everything up, and let it ride.

 

[TopherM]

I completely submerge mine in a bucket of hot water and PBW, followed by submerging them in a bucket of cool water and starsan.

About every 3rd or 4th brew, I put the chiller in the over on the cleaning or high broil setting first thing before I start the brewday, then pull it out about 20-30 minutes before I use it. That turns anything inside the chiller to sterile ash. Then just let it cool down and flush it out, and it's cleaner than the day you bought it.

 

[WissaBrewGuy]

these are all good ideas. I never thought to bake it in an oven! Just out of curiosity, what make/model chiller do you guys have?

 

[ForestGroveBrewer]

I circulate boiling water from my HLT through the chiller and back to HLT for 20 mins or so. I then hook up to the BK drain remaining water to a bucket until I get wort. Then let it flow to fermenter.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

I circulate 10gal. of a PBW solution from my MLT (an Igloo cooler) through the entire chiller apparatus and into the fermenter (running the pump), followed by a plain water rinse in the same manner. I usually do this about 30 min. before the end of the boil. Then I fill the MLT with 10 gal. of StarSan solution. After the boil is complete, I cover the BK and run the StarSan solution through the chiller apparatus, again into the fermenter. I immediately move the chiller setup to the BK and begin running the wort through.

After getting a hydrometer sample and sealing the fermenter, I clean the chiller setup with a PBW run (which goes down the drain, or into the yard if I am brewing outside) followed by a rinse, then move the chiller alone to the kitchen sink and run the backflow (plain water) for at least 20 minutes, followed by another 20 minutes forward again. I then drain it and set it laying on its side to finish emptying.

 

[mredge73]

5 minutes of boiling wort should sanitize the plate chiller, hoses, pump, and fittings sufficiently, right? Does anyone already use this method?

^^ This is all that I do for sanitation.

You just have to start with it as clean as possible; after the brew day I run hot PBW through it and my Rims tube for an hour or so. Then I flush with water in the opposite direction. I often store it in the oven on the bottom rack so anything still in it gets torched when my wife bakes.

 

[TopherM]

these are all good ideas. I never thought to bake it in an oven! Just out of curiosity, what make/model chiller do you guys have?

I have a 30 plate Duda Diesel. The short stubby one, not the long one.

If you do put it in the oven, make sure you take out any fittings that may have rubber o-rings. Learned that one the hard way!

 

[Duda_Energy]

If you do put it in the oven, make sure you take out any fittings that may have rubber o-rings. Learned that one the hard way!

Yes, please do, we only have so many replacement O-rings to send out. All units with garden hose fittings will have 1 o-ring in the female water port; any other unit shouldn't have one.

 

[dlester]

You certainly can sterilize most bacteria with boiling wort. However, I've had problems with hops and trub getting stuck in the chiller plates, which later turn into a cesspool of bacteria. I tracked my contamination problem back to the chiller and found bacteria coming out of it even though I previously went through all the manufacturers recommended steps to clean and sterilize after use. I even ran boiling wort through it, but not more than a little bit. Maybe running boiling wort over five minutes would help.

The way I cured the problem was to clean and sterilize the chiller, then whirlpool the wort prior to running it through the chiller. That step cured my problem with contamination from the chiller plates. Hopefully, your method will work too.


Cheers,

 

[de3isit]

I second the 180 degree water for about 10 minutes and call it good. Afterwards agood flushing with PBW and hot water.

 

[kombat]

So I actually tried this last weekend, and WissaBrewGuy was right, I did indeed lose the boil while recirculating the wort. So I recirculated it anyway for 5 minutes or so (with flame still on, of course), then stopped the pump and let the boil resume for the last 10 minutes or so of the boil, then turned the pump back on and began chilling. Afterwards, I did my usual protocol of backflushing with hot water, then Oxyclean, then cold water, then StarSan, then finally cold water again. The batch is fermenting away healthily currently, I guess time will tell if sanitation was compromised or not.

 

[BeerGrylls]

I've had problems with hops and trub getting stuck in the chiller plates, which later turn into a cesspool of bacteria. I tracked my contamination problem back to the chiller and found bacteria coming out of it even though I previously went through all the manufacturers recommended steps to clean and sterilize after use.

This is the exact reason I do a lye flush every so often, or after any beer with a high hop ratio. I also traced infection back to my plate chiller. Now no problems since. I don't believe a hot flush would truly get all of the rotting hop chunks out of all the tiny corners of my chiller.

 

[fearwig]

So I actually tried this last weekend, and WissaBrewGuy was right, I did indeed lose the boil while recirculating the wort. So I recirculated it anyway for 5 minutes or so (with flame still on, of course), then stopped the pump and let the boil resume for the last 10 minutes or so of the boil, then turned the pump back on and began chilling. Afterwards, I did my usual protocol of backflushing with hot water, then Oxyclean, then cold water, then StarSan, then finally cold water again. The batch is fermenting away healthily currently, I guess time will tell if sanitation was compromised or not.

As was said, you don't need a boil to sanitize, or anything close to a boil. 180 sanitizes in seconds with a good margin of error (even 170!). Google pasteurization temp/time charts. Making sure your chiller is clean and doesn't put nasty stuff in your wort is a separate concern from sanitation. Professional breweries use redundant sanitation to make the process absolutely idiot-proof. So technically, it's only mandatory for... well, I didn't say it.

 

[landlockedbrewer]

I have attached a CIP Procedure Guideline. I provide it to professionals in the brewing industry. I consulted with industry chemists and chemical suppliers to write this so it would provide a great outline to begin design and implement a proprietary, high quality cleaning schedule. The only difference with homebrewing is you do not always have stainless. This is a great start for PROPER cleaning outline for anyone on any level. This is perfect for a heat exchanger (plate chiller). View attachment Brewery CIP Procedures Guideline.pdf

 

[BeerGrylls]

Awesome, thanks for sharing.

 

[PAjwPhilly]

I have a Duda Diesel as well....

As soon as I pitch my yeast I start cleaning. I run water backwards and then forwards through the plate chiller. Takes about 10 minutes but hopefully I get out a lot of the debris (I also have a kettle tube screen* in my brew kettle). I then get as much water back out of it as I can. After that I bake it at 350° for about 10 minutes. This will kill anything in there and remove even more water.

And on the brew day I repeat the process. I run water through it again to try to remove any build up I missed before. Drain. And bake with foil over the connectors.

It is probably overkill but it is so easy to do and takes no extra time since I am busy doing other stuff 99% of the time while this process happens. And I have never had any infections with it.... hopefully I didnt just jinx myself.....




*http://morebeer.com/products/kettle-tube-screen.html

 

[VladOfTrub]

"I starsan, dump it, and then foil the input and output. Then it goes in the oven at 400 for the length of the boil. Take it out with 5 mins to go, hook everything up, and let it ride."

When the chiller is approx. 400F and you turn on the coolant in order to cool things down before having wort sizzle in the plates. Does anything weird take place? Like steam knock? I'm wondering, that over time with expansion and rapid contraction, if the brazing will give or something will crack?

 

[m1k3]

I back flush and then recirculate StarSan through my Therminator after use.
Before use, I recirculate StarSan through the hoses and pump and chiller.

 

[Biergarden]

But it occurred to me I might be making this more complicated than it needs to be. I'm tempted to try skipping the StarSan completely, and hooking the chiller and pump up to the kettle with 5 minutes to go left in the boil. I'd then turn on the pump and run the still-boiling wort through the hoses and chiller, back to the boil kettle for the last 5 minutes of the boil. Then at knockout, I'd just turn on the chilling water to the plate chiller and actually start chilling the wort instead of just recirculating it.

5 minutes of boiling wort should sanitize the plate chiller, hoses, pump, and fittings sufficiently, right? Does anyone already use this method?

That is exactly what I do. I've had no problems with infection do it that way.

 

[madhatt3r]

"I starsan, dump it, and then foil the input and output. Then it goes in the oven at 400 for the length of the boil. Take it out with 5 mins to go, hook everything up, and let it ride."

When the chiller is approx. 400F and you turn on the coolant in order to cool things down before having wort sizzle in the plates. Does anything weird take place? Like steam knock? I'm wondering, that over time with expansion and rapid contraction, if the brazing will give or something will crack?

So far no problems, and I've followed this method for roughly 2 years now. In the 5-10mins it has from coming out of the oven (thinking about it now its probably closer to 20 after hooking everything up) to flameout, it actually cools quite a bit. I imagine dropping 55f H2O into at 400f could definitely result in some thermal stressing of the brazing.

Luckily for me, I move a lot more slowly by this point in the brewday

 

[augiedoggy]

I submerge my chiller in starsan water and leave it for a bit then drain it and run tap water through it to get the starsan out until the suds/bubbles stop flowing out...(I know not sterile at this point but any buildup inside should have been sterilized if there is any).
Then I hook it up to the wort valve and recirculate hot wort through it for about 20 seconds back into the BK. then I turn on my cooling water and move the "Wort out" line to the funnel at the top on my carboy... (i even rinse my carboy with a bit of tap water after the starsan but just enough to get rid of the foam ... Anyway I never had an infected batch this way so...

I should also point out that I use both a stainless fine screen hop cup and a homemade fine copper bazooka tube like screen attached to my pickup tube so I get virtually no solids in my wort going to the chiller.(I also recirculate with a herms system so my wort is clear).. I use the screen in the white funnel to arerate and there is rarily anything caught in it as I run the chilled wort through it and into my carboys.

I could skip the starsan step all together but hey its there to soak my other tools so why not?

since I run hot wort through all my pumps and hoses for quite a while theres no need to starsan them....Its pointless really. just adds more wasted time to each brew session.
I do soak them from time to time just to give them a good cleaning and rinse them by running hot left over HLT water through them and my pumps after brewing.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a Duda Diesel as well....

As soon as I pitch my yeast I start cleaning. I run water backwards and then forwards through the plate chiller. Takes about 10 minutes but hopefully I get out a lot of the debris (I also have a kettle tube screen* in my brew kettle). I then get as much water back out of it as I can. After that I bake it at 350° for about 10 minutes. This will kill anything in there and remove even more water.

And on the brew day I repeat the process. I run water through it again to try to remove any build up I missed before. Drain. And bake with foil over the connectors.

It is probably overkill but it is so easy to do and takes no extra time since I am busy doing other stuff 99% of the time while this process happens. And I have never had any infections with it.... hopefully I didnt just jinx myself.....




*http://morebeer.com/products/kettle-tube-screen.html

Just an FYI
The bazooka tube you linked is about twice the cost of the one I bought from bargain fittings which works well in my mashtun.

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=171
I use a finer secondary screen tub inside of it though to further filter and prevent stuck sparges and so far 8 brews later I have had no hint of a stuck sparge or efficiency loss with this vs a full false bottom. (I actually get as higher as 87% )