How Do You Aerate?

BrewSwag 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Pete_WNY said:
You might keel over before creating 2" of foam! Plus, you'd have to gargle with StarSan.
Click to expand...

Or blow through one of these. Be interesting to see how many germs make it through the filter.

in_line_sanitary_filter_for_aeration_systems_41150.jpg
 
When I started out I would just shake the carboy. Then I bought one of those air pumps with the oxygen stone. Now I've got one of the O2 tank setups. That's the way to go, should have done it a long time ago.
 
Ok, so I brewed an IPA today with an OG of 1.058.
I chilled the wort to 62f and poured 5.5 gallons through a SS strainer into a 6.5 gallon fermentation bucket. Additionally, this was my original method for aerating my wort.
I took a sample of this wort and then stuck the SS wand from my new aeration set up (which uses the small hardware store O2 tanks) into the previously strained wort and shot oxygen for 60 seconds through a 2 micron diffusion stone.
I ran the samples down to the waist water treatment facility for a test on dissolved oxygen.
Sample #1 measured 3.57 ppm
Sample #2 measured 14.31 ppm
 
I am a cheap brewer. I bought a wine mixing stick that I attach to my drill. I run it for a couple minutes at most. I definitely get a heavy foam layer in my bucket. I also add the smallest amount of olive oil I can to the wort (toothpick barely saturated).
 
Minus the disposable O2 tank I had $40.00 into my set up but could have done it for under $30.00.
My LHBS got me a dip tube from an old keg that I used for a wand and I needed a couple fittings to set it up that way which added $10.00 to the cost.
I was clearly getting less than half the recommended O2 I needed so I'm glad I went this route.
It will be interesting to see how my beer benefits from it.
 
Was that extra virgin olive oil , or just olive oil? (Just worried about pepper over tones in the brew.)
And how many tea spoons?
 
sky4meplease said:
Ok, so I brewed an IPA today with an OG of 1.058.
I chilled the wort to 62f and poured 5.5 gallons through a SS strainer into a 6.5 gallon fermentation bucket. Additionally, this was my original method for aerating my wort.
I took a sample of this wort and then stuck the SS wand from my new aeration set up (which uses the small hardware store O2 tanks) into the previously strained wort and shot oxygen for 60 seconds through a 2 micron diffusion stone.
I ran the samples down to the waist water treatment facility for a test on dissolved oxygen.
Sample #1 measured 3.57 ppm
Sample #2 measured 14.31 ppm
Click to expand...

WOW!!! :)First, thanks for the follow up, this is truly amazing to me, and has me feeling good about adding my simple O2 setup (regulator and 2 micron diffuser on-line purchase, and tank, tubing and hose barbs from Lowes). What a difference! Now, on higher ABV beers, I read the line in the Yeast book that its also beneficial to shoot an additional amount 18-24 hrs into fermentation. Have to consider that when I brew my barleywine. Anyone tried this?
 
I dont think anyone is questioning that you will get more dissolved oxygen by diffusing pure 02 into the wort than by simply poring into the bucket. What people like myself have said is it does nothing to change the taste of the beer. I use 02 because i find it easier but have brewed the same high gravity beers using 02 and not using 02 and they are identical in FG and in taste.
 
The olive oil trick is just to supply the needed lipids for cell membrane development. If there are sufficient lipids present, there is no need for oxygen and in fact overoxygenation can be counter-productive to producing alcohol (see Crabtree effect) and can create vicinal diketones (like diacetyl), fusel alcohols, unpleasant esters, and oxo-acids. This is very easy to do when using pure oxygen and the threshold to limiting the negative effects is around 8 PPM. The amount of olive oil needed to supply the needed lipids is a very small amount. One drop in 5 gallons of wort is way too much. dipping the tip of a toothpick in oil and swishing it is the usual method. The needed lipids could also be supplied by using a yeast nutrient that's made of dead yeast cells, or from pitching on an unrinsed yeastcake where the trub is loaded with usable unsaturated fatty acids.

The takeaway from all of this is that if you are pitching an adequate amount of (unrinsed) healthy yeast from a starter or recent healthy fermentation, you do not necessarily need to aerate at all. If your yeast is not healthy or there are not enough cells, you will benefit from some aeration.
 
Qhrumphf said:
This has been discussed before. It's possible to pitch enough yeast that you don't have to aerate (and some fringe folks do advocate doing so). However the growth creates intermediary compunds that are important for flavor, and especially in a yeast-forward beer like a Belgian you're going to destroy the ester character that way. Even a lager can taste dull if you go to extremes.

The way i see it, with all the extensive research that has been done into pitching rates and aeration in the last half century, i doubt there's a better route than what is already recommended.
Click to expand...

Okay great, so with a starter I should still continue to aerate. Thanks!

masonsjax said:
The takeaway from all of this is that if you are pitching an adequate amount of (unrinsed) healthy yeast from a starter or recent healthy fermentation, you do not necessarily need to aerate at all. If your yeast is not healthy or there are not enough cells, you will benefit from some aeration.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, now I'm confused again. This was my original thought as well. Why would aeration be needed if you're pitching enough healthy yeast?
 
I use my pump to transfer from the kettle to my FV. I have once of these 1/2 copper stub outs that I drilled 3 pair of small holes through. I 12 in section of silicone tubing so I can drop it down into a carboy. I attach that to the end of the hose pumping into the FV and it sprays out like mad. Seems to work. I was thinking about adding a reducer like a little shroud over each pair of holes so as it came out it hit those and was redirected down but I haven't felt like welding them up yet.

stub out.png


cover.png


2015-01-20 10.46.54.jpg
 
sky4meplease said:
Minus the disposable O2 tank I had $40.00 into my set up but could have done it for under $30.00.
My LHBS got me a dip tube from an old keg that I used for a wand and I needed a couple fittings to set it up that way which added $10.00 to the cost.
I was clearly getting less than half the recommended O2 I needed so I'm glad I went this route.
It will be interesting to see how my beer benefits from it.
Click to expand...

So the dip tube with a little section of hosing to the SS air stone? That's clever. What did you use for the regulator? (sorry if I missed this I didn't see in another post)
 
The diffusion stone has a barbed end that fit snugly into the dip tube. I lightly filed the barbs down a little because I thought it would be too tight and tapped the tube down onto the stone.
The end of the dip tube that went over the barbed end of the stone had a flare on it that I thought I would have to cut off but the flare fit tight on to the stone.
You may be able to see that if you zoom in on the picture of the stone end of the dip tube..
 
thejuanald said:
Okay great, so with a starter I should still continue to aerate. Thanks!



Hmmm, now I'm confused again. This was my original thought as well. Why would aeration be needed if you're pitching enough healthy yeast?
Click to expand...

"Enough" is the term. It's a variable that can be adjusted. The rates you get from all the yeast calculators I'm aware of are based off of 0.75 (ale) or 1.5 (lager) million cells per milliliter of wort per °Plato. Those are rates that will require aeration, and are rates that, with proper aeration and fermentation temperature, produce good ester profiles (not over the top in ales, and suitably clean in lagers). Increasing pitching rate above those rates would reduce the need for aeration to facilitate growth, but will also suppress esters. For lagers, may not be an issue unless you go to the ultimate extreme (Jamil Zainasheff did an experiment where he fermented a lager with a big enough yeast pitch that the yeast didn't need to grow, and beyond clean it went to dull and lifeless), but for yeast-forward beers where esters are a fundamental part of the style, it could be a problem.

The olive oil thing is a workaround. The ultimate point of oxygen in the wort is to allow yeast to build up sterols, and the olive oil adds the compound(s?) yeast need to do so, bypassing the need for oxygen. But the amounts you need for that are so miniscule compared to the batch size that it's not easy to do for a homebrewer (as noted, even a single drop of olive oil is too much for a 5 gallon batch, I would assume that a saturated toothpick is too much as well but no data to back that up). I wasn't aware of trub or dead yeast doing the same thing and would be curious to see the source (not saying it's wrong, just wasn't aware of it). However, pitching on an unwashed cake is going to be an overpitch for just about anything, and again suppress the esters of the beer.

So point is, if you're brewing an English beer or a Belgian beer, or anything where you want some esters, I wouldn't go the "pitch a whole bunch of yeast and don't aerate" route. For a clean beer (lager, Scottish Ale, etc) then it may work a little better for you.
 
Qhrumphf said:
"Enough" is the term. It's a variable that can be adjusted. The rates you get from all the yeast calculators I'm aware of are based off of 0.75 (ale) or 1.5 (lager) million cells per milliliter of wort per °Plato. Those are rates that will require aeration, and are rates that, with proper aeration and fermentation temperature, produce good ester profiles (not over the top in ales, and suitably clean in lagers). Increasing pitching rate above those rates would reduce the need for aeration to facilitate growth, but will also suppress esters. For lagers, may not be an issue unless you go to the ultimate extreme (Jamil Zainasheff did an experiment where he fermented a lager with a big enough yeast pitch that the yeast didn't need to grow, and beyond clean it went to dull and lifeless), but for yeast-forward beers where esters are a fundamental part of the style, it could be a problem.

The olive oil thing is a workaround. The ultimate point of oxygen in the wort is to allow yeast to build up sterols, and the olive oil adds the compound(s?) yeast need to do so, bypassing the need for oxygen. But the amounts you need for that are so miniscule compared to the batch size that it's not easy to do for a homebrewer (as noted, even a single drop of olive oil is too much for a 5 gallon batch, I would assume that a saturated toothpick is too much as well but no data to back that up). I wasn't aware of trub or dead yeast doing the same thing and would be curious to see the source (not saying it's wrong, just wasn't aware of it). However, pitching on an unwashed cake is going to be an overpitch for just about anything, and again suppress the esters of the beer.

So point is, if you're brewing an English beer or a Belgian beer, or anything where you want some esters, I wouldn't go the "pitch a whole bunch of yeast and don't aerate" route. For a clean beer (lager, Scottish Ale, etc) then it may work a little better for you.
Click to expand...

Great explanation, thank you very much.
 
I pour the cooled wort between sanitized pails 4-6 times. I'm always sure to sanitize the pail outside as well because some runs down the outside of the rim. I typically do this until the foam is almost overflowing, then do another 1-2 transfers after letting the foam settle while I finish cleaning.
 
I have a plastic tee with a short hose that I connect to my racking cane.
This creates the venturi effect and then the wort falls a foot or so into the fermenter. After I pitch my harvested yeast slurry, I seal the fermenter and shake it for about one minute. This seems to be more than adequate aeration
for my 7% ABV ales.
 
soccerguy83 said:
For my first brew, I will be using a paint stir attachment for a drill in the kettle.
Click to expand...

I started out using that, but found that after just a few brews, it was rusting pretty badly. I switched to a "Fizz-X" wine de-gassing rod (stainless steel shaft with hard plastic arms) and it's worked great ever since.
 
sky4meplease said:
Ok, so I brewed an IPA today with an OG of 1.058.
I chilled the wort to 62f and poured 5.5 gallons through a SS strainer into a 6.5 gallon fermentation bucket. Additionally, this was my original method for aerating my wort.
I took a sample of this wort and then stuck the SS wand from my new aeration set up (which uses the small hardware store O2 tanks) into the previously strained wort and shot oxygen for 60 seconds through a 2 micron diffusion stone.
I ran the samples down to the waist water treatment facility for a test on dissolved oxygen.
Sample #1 measured 3.57 ppm
Sample #2 measured 14.31 ppm
Click to expand...

It is possible to over-oxygenate wort. 14.31ppm may be over that line. May be way over that line.
 
LandoLincoln said:
It is possible to over-oxygenate wort.
Click to expand...

Yes, but with a "but." I've read that you can only "over-oxygenate" wort if you're using pure oxygen (i.e., with an aeration stone). I don't believe it's possible to "over-oxygenate" using shaking, stirring, or splashing. I believe that the most you can get with those methods is 8 ppm, which is more than enough for most beers. Lagers and high-gravity beers may require more, but you needn't worry about "over-oxygenating" if you're using a paint-stirrer or a wine-degasser, or splashing, etc. Just pure O2.
 
My crazy idea one night was to somehow make a waterfall like Willy Wonka has for chocolate. Wonder if I'll ever make that much??? As long as you have sanitary conditions, should be good. Right?
 
I attach a short piece of tubing with a siphon sprayer to the ball valve. It works well.
 
soccerguy83 said:
For my first brew, I will be using a paint stir attachment for a drill in the kettle.
Click to expand...

Mexibilly said:
I use a sanitized paint mixer and a drill. Never had a problem
Click to expand...

kombat said:
I started out using that, but found that after just a few brews, it was rusting pretty badly. I switched to a "Fizz-X" wine de-gassing rod (stainless steel shaft with hard plastic arms) and it's worked great ever since.
Click to expand...


I'm in the same boat as you three. I have the rust on the rod now too. For now I just scrub most of it off Oxyclean then rinse in starsan before using it. So far I don't think it has done anything negative to the beer.
 
LandoLincoln said:
It is possible to over-oxygenate wort. 14.31ppm may be over that line. May be way over that line.
Click to expand...


Please understand that I had never pumped pure oxygen into wort before.
If you read through that post I aerated like I had always done (and probably like a majority of home brewers do) and got less than half the recommended O2 into my wort.
I then hit the wort with O2 for 60 seconds because that seemed like a good place to start. Obviously that put me over the top a little.
My next brew I will try 45 seconds with the O2 and run a sample down to the WWTF to have it tested and see how that works and dial it in from there.
Tomorrow I dry hop the IPA that I ran this experiment on so it will be interesting to see how it attenuated.
 
kombat said:
Yes, but with a "but." I've read that you can only "over-oxygenate" wort if you're using pure oxygen (i.e., with an aeration stone). I don't believe it's possible to "over-oxygenate" using shaking, stirring, or splashing. I believe that the most you can get with those methods is 8 ppm, which is more than enough for most beers. Lagers and high-gravity beers may require more, but you needn't worry about "over-oxygenating" if you're using a paint-stirrer or a wine-degasser, or splashing, etc. Just pure O2.
Click to expand...


I think most home brewers are more likely to suffer the effects of under oxygenation rather than over oxygenation. This Is particularly true for beers with a rather high OG.
 
I think most home brewers that use pure O2 are more likely to suffer the effects of over oxygenation rather than under oxygenation. This Is particularly true for beers with a rather low to mid OG.
 
I would say just pouing it into the fermenter like you do would be enough. I never stir after adding yeast I just float it on top and it works its magic.
 
masonsjax said:
I think most home brewers that use pure O2 are more likely to suffer the effects of over oxygenation rather than under oxygenation. This Is particularly true for beers with a rather low to mid OG.
Click to expand...

What is over oxygenated? Say for low gravity, medium gravity and high gravity beers?

I know it is possible because I have seen it written by credible sources but even those sources don't elaborate as to what those numbers are.
 
So I'm sure you've had a ton of pump recommendations so far...


For a beginner who is just starting out and not looking to spend a lot of money or get too technical, this process works just fine for all beers except very high gravity beers, or those that exceed 1.080 OG:

-Invest in two better bottles (plastic carboys) which are safer, easier to handle, and shatter resistant.
-Fill halfway with wort and cover with a tight-fitting dual layer of sanitized foil.
-Shake vigorously for about 20 seconds. Remove foil, swirl the carboy around a bit to incorporate more air.
-Recover and shake vigorously for a good 40 seconds to 1 minute.
-Discard foil. Install airlock. Proceed with primary fermentation.

Many folks who are just starting out only brew 2-3 gallons at a time indoors with a very basic setup. With this simple method, you can use 1 carboy. For people who brew 5-6 gallons at a time, you can split the wort into two carboys. The only downside to this method is that you cannot rack to secondary given the extra headspace (racking to secondary is not necessary in most cases anyway). For purposes of primary fermentation however, headspace is your friend. That dense layer of C02 blanketing the top of your beer is a good thing.

If your recipe and other processes are sound then you should have no problem attaining a fully fermentable wort using this simple aeration method for most beers.
 
Never had a problem with yeast by pouring from kettle to bucket through a strainer. Keep in mind I rarely go over 1060 with my brews, but if I'm fermenting in my carboy I pour through strainer to bucket then pour through funnel into carboy.
I honestly believe that it's not that hard to achieve 8ppm by doing this.
 
sky4meplease said:
What is over oxygenated? Say for low gravity, medium gravity and high gravity beers?

I know it is possible because I have seen it written by credible sources but even those sources don't elaborate as to what those numbers are.
Click to expand...

The actual numbers depend on a multitude of variables, but above 8 PPM seems to be the generally accepted upper threshold. Without a way to measure dissolved O2 and adjust accordingly, it's kinda moot anyway.

My point is that it's not even possible to over-oxygenate using a splashing method, but you will almost certainly over-oxygenate every time when using a pure oxygen rig. With pure O2 and a stone, it is very easy to sail way past the ideal range (as someone's measured numbers showed earlier). Under-oxygenating is rarely an issue, and never is if you're pitching enough healthy yeast to begin with, especially if you're using dry yeast, and/or supplying an adequate lipid source.
 

Similar threads

P
why siphon instead of pour if next step is aeration?
Replies
18
Views
1K
jerrylotto
jerrylotto
Langerz
"Odd" Fermentation Gravity Change
Replies
6
Views
562
hotbeer
hotbeer
brewdon
Not sure what’s going on here - KVEIK
Replies
12
Views
448
eliastheodosis
eliastheodosis
B
I finally did it. Started my first batch of mead.
Replies
7
Views
2K
BlindMike
B
G
Cooling the wort
Replies
23
Views
2K
gewehr43sniper
gewehr43sniper

Latest posts

Back
Top