How do I tell if my mash and sparge went well.

[phuff7129]

I just got done mashing and sparging my grains for a partial mash. Everything seemed to go well but how do I know if maybe my gravity might be a little low or a little high maybe I wont add as much dme or maybe add more dme. My preboil gravity on 3.5 gallons preboil volume was 1.058 adjusted for temp. My recipe says to add 5lbs of dme at 15 minutes and I am shooting for a 1.072 to 1.076. is there anyway to know before i finish the boil and top up?

 

[mikeysab]

Cool down enough wort to take a hydro reading and check. If you have a refractometer, even better. How much grain did you mash? Most of your gravity should come from extract, so I'd say its pretty hard to miss by a whole lot.

 

[TyTanium]

Target: 5.5 gallons x 72 OG = 396 gravity points

Right now you have 3.5 gallons x 58 SG = 203 gravity points,
So you need 396 - 203 = 193 more to get to your target.

Each pound of DME adds 45 points, so 193 / 45 = 4.29#

If you added the full 5 pounds, you'd be at 1.078
=203 mash + 225 (=5x25) DME = 428 / 5.5gal = 78

 

[phuff7129]

i just measured my pre boil gravity adjusted for temperature is reading 1.064. I mashed 8.25 pounds of grain.

 

[phuff7129]

Thank you. I just have to learn the math. Now does gravity go up or down when you boil or does it stay the same?

 

[TyTanium]

Still 3.5 gallons? Measuring volume correctly is just as important as gravity readings for efficiency / pre-fermenter readings.

 

[TyTanium]

Gravity increases.

It's simply a ratio of dissolved sugars to volume. As you boil, you lose volume, so your concentration of sugar goes up, and your gravity goes up.

 

[phuff7129]

I am sure I am going to boil off close to a gallon over 90 minutes but I am going to add the dme but I would think my post boil volume will be less than 3.5 gallons.

 

[phuff7129]

Thank you very much for your help. It was very informative. I know its hard to know for sure but does it sound like I had a pretty efficient mash?

 

[TyTanium]

Good news is that your boiloff rate doesn't matter since you can just add it back with your top-off water.

What I meant by volume being important is when you take pre-boil gravity readings.
5 gallons at 1.050 is obviously very different than 3.5 gallons at 1.050...same gravity, but there's obviously lots more sugars in the 5 gallons.
5g x 50 = 250 gravity points vs 3.5 x 50 = 175 gravity points. When you boil, your concentration changes, but your total gravity points remain the same. Does that make sense? I find it easier to think in terms of total gravity points instead of specific gravity.
Gravity points only change when I add/remove sugars. Specific gravity changes both with changes in sugars, and changes in water volume.

 

[TyTanium]

Thank you very much for your help. It was very informative. I know its hard to know for sure but does it sound like I had a pretty efficient mash?

Seems like you're right on track. If you post which grains you used I can help you calculate your efficiency.

 

[phuff7129]

Again I just can't tell you how much I appreciate you letting me pick your brain.
Here is the recipe from Beersmith.

Type: Partial Mash Date: 2/3/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer:
Boil Size: 3.50 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 2.75 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal Est Mash Efficiency 70.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 45.3 %
1 lbs 12.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.2 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.8 %
1.75 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 4 49.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 5 5.5 IBUs
5 lbs Light Dry Extract [Boil for 15 min](8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 6 37.7 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.076 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.7 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.9 %
Bitterness: 89.0 IBUs Calories: 259.5 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 29.5 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 13 lbs 4.0 oz
Sparge Water: 2.16 gal Grain Temperature: 66.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 150.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 10.31 qt of water at 164.8 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.29gal, 1.88gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

 

[TyTanium]

My pleasure. I love the brewing math.

Potential gravity calc:
6# pale x 37 gravity points per pound = 222
1.75# special B x 33 gravity ppp = 58
0.5 crystal 120 x 33 gravity ppp = 17
Potential Gravity (at 100% efficiency) = 297 gravity points

Actual gravity calc:
Your actual was 3.5g x 64 SG = 224 gravity points
224 actual / 297 potential = 75% mash/lauter efficiency, nice job!

 

[phuff7129]

I have been searching for how to determine my efficiency and I didn't understand until now. You are the best in the business! Thanks again.

 

[TyTanium]

You're welcome! Really glad to help, I certainly enjoy it.

 

[phuff7129]

You're welcome! Really glad to help, I certainly enjoy it.

I just wanted to let you know that with your help I now totally understand the math. I was also able to set up Beersmith so I get the right numbers. Now that I have Beersmith set up properly, I plugged in all of my numbers and it gave me all of the same information you gave me yesterday. According to Beersmith I hit the same efficiency number that you gave me.

One more question and then I'll leave you alone. I noticed that the some of the gravity points you gave me for the grains differ from the gravity points in Beersmith. Is there a better source than Beersmith to learn the potential gravity points for all grains? Thanks again!

 

[TyTanium]

I just wanted to let you know that with your help I now totally understand the math. I was also able to set up Beersmith so I get the right numbers. Now that I have Beersmith set up properly, I plugged in all of my numbers and it gave me all of the same information you gave me yesterday. According to Beersmith I hit the same efficiency number that you gave me.

One more question and then I'll leave you alone. I noticed that the some of the gravity points you gave me for the grains differ from the gravity points in Beersmith. Is there a better source than Beersmith to learn the potential gravity points for all grains? Thanks again!

Awesome! It makes brew day so much more fun (at least to me) when you understand the math and can adjust recipes to hit your numbers.

As for the gravity points per grain, Beersmith is a great source. Different sources have different numbers; I'd suspect they're all pretty close. I would trust Beersmith. The numbers I used were just from my head, which is less than dependable

 

[SanFranBrewer]

Awesome! It makes brew day so much more fun (at least to me) when you understand the math and can adjust recipes to hit your numbers.

As for the gravity points per grain, Beersmith is a great source. Different sources have different numbers; I'd suspect they're all pretty close. I would trust Beersmith. The numbers I used were just from my head, which is less than dependable

If I could hijack you for a moment and ask for your help! I have been following and attempting to get my own math right.

I will be doing a BIAB PM coming up and used beersmith to formulate the recipe. Between my mash and sparge, my predicted preboil volume is 3.67 gal. I want to know how successful the mash was and how much DME (added late addition - 20min left) I should add to hit my numbers.

Multiplying 2.6# of DME x 37 = 96.2
4.5# 2row x 33 = 148.5
1# crystal60 x 33 = 33
Totaling 277.7 points (I assume this is 100% efficiency correct?)

BS gives an est OG of 1.051, which for a 5gallon batch should equal 255 points.

BS also gives a mash efficiency of 85%. I assume this only gets applied to the grain and not the dme, so adjusted numbers come out to 250.5 points. Which for a 5 gal batch comes out to roughly 1.05gravity.

Post mash, is the 85% of my grain divided by preboil volume the number I am using to adjust either up or down the DME addition?

Also, how high would 85% be realistically for a first timer. I set my temp for full body to try and get a thicker mash. Below is the full recipe.

Thank you a TON in advance!


Anchor Steam Clone PM
California Common Beer
Type: Partial Mash Date: 2/7/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: Aaron
Boil Size: 3.67 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot ( 4 Gal/15.1 L) - Extract
End of Boil Volume 3.38 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.13 gal Est Mash Efficiency 85.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 55.6 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.3 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 23.1 IBUs
2 lbs 9.6 oz Light Dry Extract [Boil for 20 min](8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 4 32.1 %
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 5.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Lager (Wyeast Labs #2112) [124.21 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 35.0 IBUs Calories: 166.1 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 10.1 SRM
Mash Profile
Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 1.6 oz
Sparge Water: 2.61 gal Grain Temperature: 70.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 6.88 qt of water at 168.5 F 156.0 F 40 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 2.61 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash.

 

[phuff7129]

In Beersmith you set your efficiency. Because your efficiency is unknown then try setting it around 60 to 65%. I set mine at 65% when I did not know my efficiency.

When BS calculates your preboil gravity it does take into account your LME. I have not figured out a way to correct it other than remove the malt extract and it will give you your preboil gravity without the extract. Then you can add the extract back in.

To calculate your mash efficiency leave out the malt extract because you are not mashing the extract, just the grains.

4.5# 2row x 33 = 148.5
1# crystal60 x 33 = 33
100% conversion = 181.5

When you are done with you mash and your sparge, take a gravity reading of your preboil wort. Let's say it is 1.040 and you have 3.67 gallons.

40 x 3.67 = 146.8 gravity points divided by 181.5 potential gravity points
= 81% mash efficiency.

Make sure you set up your preboil water volume, select a single infusion mash medium body with sparge, and set your efficiency in Beersmith. Remove your extract and you should get your real preboil gravity. You should be able to calculate how much extract you need to add to hit your OG. Good luck!

 

[SanFranBrewer]

Thanks! I order from northern brewer and I know that I can specify a double crush for the grain to try and help out bag efficiency. I will definitely dump down efficiency in beersmith and plan around that recipe. Having extra Dme is better than the alternative. Love this forum. Thanks again!

 

[phuff7129]

No problem. As you know I am just learning all of this myself. It sure gives you alot more confidence when you know how and why you do something. I get my grains at Midwest supply and have them crush at 036 and it seems to be a really good crush and no stuck sparge.