how do commercial ciders preserve some sweetness?

[Kindogg]

I have no doubt that major producers generally use sulfites or filtering to remove yeast and backsweeten.

What got me thinking was 2 ciders I tried this weekend. namely:
-J.K.’s Scrumpy Orchard Gate Gold Organic Hard Cider
-Blackbird premium draft cider

I enjoyed them both, mostly because they each only had a hint of sweetness to them. My question is what are these guys doing to get this level of sweetness? Filtering and backsweentening is my first guess but I am wondering if they have another trick up their sleeves? Aging? yeast? any thoughts are welcome.

 

[foodplusbeer]

Pasteurization

 

[oregonbrew541]

But if you have the means you could cold crash them yourself then theres no need for past. Cold crash at like 1.005-1.010.

 

[oregonbrew541]

I have no doubt that major producers generally use sulfites or filtering to remove yeast and backsweeten.

What got me thinking was 2 ciders I tried this weekend. namely:
-J.K.’s Scrumpy Orchard Gate Gold Organic Hard Cider
-Blackbird premium draft cider

I enjoyed them both, mostly because they each only had a hint of sweetness to them. My question is what are these guys doing to get this level of sweetness? Filtering and backsweentening is my first guess but I am wondering if they have another trick up their sleeves? Aging? yeast? any thoughts are welcome.

also there yeast and SUGAR TYPE played a big role. Ive had plenty of great ciders without adding flavors/concentrates.

 

[WilliamSlayer]

Pasturization in bottle is a good guess.

My money is on whirlpooling the yeast/sediment out.

Both are cheap at the commercial level...

 

[CiderRules]

Pasturization in bottle is a good guess.

My money is on whirlpooling the yeast/sediment out.

Both are cheap at the commercial level...

Pasteurization in the bottle leads to sediment which is usually not a sought after quality. Probably cold crashing / fining / filtering and sulfites are most commonly used. I would bet all are probably force carbed too.

 

[LeBreton]

Pasteurization in the bottle leads to sediment which is usually not a sought after quality. Probably cold crashing / fining / filtering and sulfites are most commonly used. I would bet all are probably force carbed too.

This. To my knowledge, there are no pasteurized commercial ciders being made in the US.

 

[bernardsmith]

Why would "cold crashing" remove all the yeast? My guess is that commercial cider makers probably filter out the yeast , back sweeten and THEN force carbonate .

 

[Justdrumin]

Not sure they do it, but I have had J.K.'s Scrumpy and it is DELICIOUS! If I could replicate that I would be VERY happy...so would the SWMBO : D that particular cider had quite a bit of sediment on the bottom of it. If that helps at all. I noticed a few others that I've had also had a bit of sediment on the bottom.

 

[ericbw]

Not sure they do it, but I have had J.K.'s Scrumpy and it is DELICIOUS! If I could replicate that I would be VERY happy...so would the SWMBO : D that particular cider had quite a bit of sediment on the bottom of it. If that helps at all. I noticed a few others that I've had also had a bit of sediment on the bottom.

Filter or let it settle out like wine. Force carbonation. We've had some success with cat pasteurizing, but some say there's a risk of oxidation.

 

[JudyP]

I am planning to make a slightly sweet, slightly carbonated cider (with no sediment)...my first one. But I have made a lot of sweet wine, so I plan on using the same plan, the only difference is the forced carbonation and bottling at the end. So I plan to stop the cider at desired sweetness by cold crashing and k-meta. I will use a yeast that is temperature sensitive to make sure the cold stops it. Then sterile filter to remove the yeast so it does not start to re-ferment in the bottle. Finally, force carbonate it right before bottling. My only question is : will I need to use a counter pressure bottle filler if I want to preserve some of the bubble? Just looking to have slight fizziness to the cider so I might be able to get away without one.

 

[ericbw]

I bet you can get away without a counter pressure filler. Just chill the bottles and keep the pressure low. Should keep a slight fizz.

 

[LeBreton]

If you're looking for just a slight fizz then a gentle fill will result in a pettient product.

 

[BigFloyd]

I am planning to make a slightly sweet, slightly carbonated cider (with no sediment)...my first one. But I have made a lot of sweet wine, so I plan on using the same plan, the only difference is the forced carbonation and bottling at the end. So I plan to stop the cider at desired sweetness by cold crashing and k-meta. I will use a yeast that is temperature sensitive to make sure the cold stops it. Then sterile filter to remove the yeast so it does not start to re-ferment in the bottle. Finally, force carbonate it right before bottling. My only question is : will I need to use a counter pressure bottle filler if I want to preserve some of the bubble? Just looking to have slight fizziness to the cider so I might be able to get away without one.

You don't really need to filter unless you want to for extraordinary clarity. For a slightly sweet carbonated cider using ale yeast (Nottingham), I've cold crashed the primary, used K-sorbate, back-sweetened (with AJ frozen concentrate), and force carbed in the keg then bottled. None of the bottles carbed any farther even if left at room temp.

I bottle with this and like it. - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/

 

[JudyP]

If you're looking for just a slight fizz then a gentle fill will result in a pettient product.

So do you think I can force carbonate then use a gravity filler to bottle; that this will keep a slight fizz? I'd like to not use a counter pressure filler if possible.

 

[LeBreton]

It depends on the style of gravity filler, but I'd suspect that you'd retain some carbonation. The less time you have the cider sitting at atmospheric pressure off gassing the more carbonation will be retained.

Most gravity filler setups I've used/seen have four stages.
Supply tank --> Holding tank (part of filler unit) --> 3. The fill itself --> 4. Closure

Since we already discussed a gentle fill the other main objectives would be to move bottles as quickly as possible from the filler to the closure step and to have the cider sitting in the holding tank for a minimal amount of time while maintaining temp. Most manual CPF machines hook up directly to the bright tank, and fill the bottles directly from there, while most gravity fillers have a holding tank of between 5-50 gallons. This holding tank is probably the biggest obstacle, since it's not cooled or under pressure.

Another thing to consider is whether you'd want to purge the bottles with CO2 before filling, most CPF machines have this capability built in.

If you're looking to go commercial, and based on your recent posts you are at least thinking about it, then I'd suggest getting a CPF. There's no substitute for using the right tool for the right job.

 

[EpicCider]

Crispin brand pasteurizes their cider.